tig welding 18g- another newbie with pics

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Sorry ahead of time if asking for someone to look at some practice welds is "wrong." Ideally, I should get my *** to a community college or something else, but this is a hobby and life and job takes up most my time. I'll say that I have learned a lot in these past few weeks from this forum and welding-tv and appreciate it all.Everlast DC itig-200t with foot pedal1/16 2% lanthanated sharpened to a point#7 cup100% argon 5l/minno filler30 amps18g steel sheet, scribed lines to follow in the metalquenched in water after each line run but they still came out all grey looking.I can see the weld just coming through the back side.I am still far from getting the coordination to stack dimes. Still working on keeping the torch and puddle traveling smoothly and the arc length consistent. Does the bead look really narrow?
Reply:Running beads with no filler is fine for learning the basics of what things like arc length, travel speed and the pedal can do, but You'll need filler for real welds on everything except maybe stainless.18 ga sheet is really tough to learn tig on. 16 ga is about the thinnest I usually recommend guys use, and 14 ga or 1/8" is often better.  I only recommend 16 ga when guys are only going to go thin. Problem comes as soon as you go to do actual joints vs welds on flat plate. You really have to have your heat control down well on 18 ga stuff.  Too many guys either burn thru right away and eat up the open edge, or they go the other way and go way too cold trying to make sure they don't burn thru. there really isn't a lot of middle ground to work with. If these were real joints, the wide spots would probably have burn thru, while the narrow spots would be too cold looking at your "beads".As far as width, it's tough to really tell since there isn't a good reference in the picts to judge scale with. A good rule of thumb is that legs on fillets are about the size of the material thickness. Maybe a bit larger when you drop down into thin material like this. I wouldn't want to see anything more than 150% the material thickness tops. On 18 ga you'd be talking about just over say 1/16". 3/32" would be too big.30 amps is also a bit light on the amps. 40-45 would be about my starting point, since with a pedal you can always go lighter if need be. Keep in mind when the amps are too low, you end up putting in MORE heat than you do if the amps were higher and you simply traveled faster.One other thing with thin material. You can easily pull contaminants in from the back side of the weld. When the bead goes all the way thru, you can actually pull scale in from the back and it can tend to grey out beads even if you did a nice job cleaning the front side. This can make it really tough when you run multiple beads, as your last bead can form scale on the back side, even if you cleaned and ground the piece when you did the 1st pass..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks! right on all accounts.I tried to run a bead on the edge and it melted it right away into an irregular ugly mess.then I cut through the piece with a hacksaw and tried to fuse them together and again it melted the edges further apart.added some 1/16" filler rod and was able to bridge the gap much better. And yes, more heat was needed when using the filler rod. But nothing blew through. Yeah! I hope that doesn't mean I'm cold. I'll turn up the amps til that happens.And I'll get some 16g.I've run beads on 1/8" and will continue to practice on that.My first project is to finish up a metal seat pan and rear cowl that is made from a combination of 18 and 16g steel. I am perfectly OK not touching it for months til I get better at this. Next would be welding some tabs and additional frame bracing (1" rounf tube 0.065" wall) onto the motorcycle frame. I know, pretty ambitious for a first project but I have been oxy/acetylene welding for a while. The results on the seat pan so far just weren't as nice looking as I wanted it with that method.Last edited by Jwdiho; 06-10-2014 at 09:01 PM.
Reply:You are going to want smaller filler than 1/16". 1/16" is roughly the equivalent of 16 ga. You need to remember that you melt the filler with the puddle, NOT the arc. ( there are a few very minor exceptions to this like when trying to bridge a gap or hole where you use the filler as the "base" material)  If the filler is larger than the base material, you need more heat to melt it. That means your base material will burn thru before the filler usually melts. Also remember filler chills the puddle when you dab. That's one of the advanced methods of heat control. If the filler is too large, you pretty much "douse" the puddle when it solidifies as the filler sucks out all the heat. Not a huge deal when you are working with "thicker" material, but with thin stuff where the difference between "too hot" and "too cold" is very slim, you'll have issues as when you dip you'll suddenly loose your penetration as the puddle cools. Either that or you will constantly be creating holes.You probably want to look for .045 tig filler, or look at using .045, .035 or .030 mig wire straightened for filler vs 1/16". That would be a more appropriate size for 18 ga. Even .045 filler is roughly the size of 18 ga and may give you issues. ( my chart lists 18 ga as .047")When learning  use everything you can to your advantage. If possible with your projects, use joint designs that work in your favor. Remember that lap joints give you more material to use as a heat sink vs say T or but joints. ( but joints being the hardest) When doing fillets, try and keep the puddle on the "solid" piece as much as possible and wash the puddle over to the edge, moving back before you melt away too much.You've given yourself quite a challenge. Even on 1/8" material it takes students at the tech school quite a few hours of practice before they are even ready for T joints, let alone outside corners or but joints. 16/18ga will be even harder. Most can't even get thru lap joints in the 40 hours or so of class time working with an instructor. We are talking "easy" joints in the flat position, start talking about out of position joints or tube joints ( especially 6G) and it gets exponentially harder..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I've got some mig wire 0.035 around. Used to twist two together in a drill and weld sheet with oxyfuel with it. worked great.Last pics then I'll shut up and practice for about a week. Obviously, I need practice. Some were too cold, some I added rod too quickly. And to clean the metal better...I jumped around on the practice piece trying to do two passes before quenching so they aren't in any particular order.Same machine, tungsten, argon1/16" fillerended up with 100 amps max set on the machine and about 70-80% on the foot pedal1/8" steelTHANKS again for the tips. And I'm not going to rush it with the project. it'll wait till I'm ready.Last edited by Jwdiho; 06-11-2014 at 12:33 AM.
Reply:More amps. 1/8" steel can be welded at 125 amps pedal to the floor. A good rule of thumb for steel tig is 1 amp per .001" of material. Alum needs about 25% more amps to get the puddle to form fast, after than you back down and fly. Stainless, a bit less, say maybe 10% less. That usually gets you close in the ball park.Keep in mind when you double up mig wire and twist it, you get a thicker strand than the original size. Also though it doesn't matter too much, remember that when you scribe lines on sheet, you make stress risers. Only scribe sheet where you are going to cut on projects. Don't use a scribe to just do layout lines. It becomes more critical the thinner the sheet is. Remember they usually cut sheet many times by scoring and snapping it. An example would be cutting alum flashing in a break. For practice it won't matter and a nice straight line does help a lot of students. We tend to use chalk vs a scribe, but then most times the students are working on 1/8" to 3/8" material.You are going a great job keeping the beads nice and straight. I often have students who look like they'd fail a sobriety test. Dips look pretty consistent as well. Your experience with OA certainly shows. Just keep practicing..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Try using some fresh, clean scrap. The last one looked kind of scummy. Grind or switch tungsten as soon as you dip it, don't wait to finish the bead. Besides restarts are good practice.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:Yeah, I've got to pony up some $$ for some clean metal today.And yeah, got to make myself STOP and regrind and clean.Got the beads pretty good on 1/8" steel.moved onto some t joint welds. Went bad at first and found two leaks in the argon line. stupid me.the first several passes on the t joint looked bad but then waited just a sec for the pudle to flow into the corner and then dipped and GO!funny on those bad beads, I went back over with a "hot" pass and it was way easier and nicer.finally, though, got the first passes looking good.it's tempting to rush on here after every first failed new attempt. but seat time fixes a lot of things...going to get some fresh 1/8" metal to practice. and some 16g with some smaller filler wire.
Reply:OK about 1 week of practice. tried to get out an burn for about an hour or so a night. unfortunately, setup time really meant probably 15-20m of welding. practiced with 1/8" until I ran out. Then some 16g. Got very comfortable running practice beads. Got OK doing t joints with 1/8" steel. Tried corner joints on 16g. Here are my very first attempts at square tubing welds tonight.Scrap hr 2" square tube. wall was about 0.08"settings 80amps, DC1/16" 2% lan tungsten1/16" er70s-6 filler#6 cupAll four sides.This was the side that had a <1/16" gap from the square tube rolling over. The uncut looks bad, but it might be exaggerated in the pic slightly.no gap on this oneI lost control of the heat at the beginning of this one. I waited too long trying to puddle both sides of the joint before I dipped the rod.again no gapMachine maintained great arc control. Me, not so much especially on that one side. I should try to mash up the weld to test, but it's too late to be banging with a sledgehammer.It's amazing what you see when you take pics. the welds looked pretty ok with the naked eye. but mag'd up and you see all kinds of bad things. One thing is that all the beads except one look like the bead widens out as I'm traveling.Any suggestions? I want to learn. I was thinking square tubing would be nice to wet my feet with then maybe do the round tubing.Last edited by Jwdiho; 06-19-2014 at 12:59 AM.
Reply:Round tubing is about as difficult as you can get. There are several reasons for this. 1st one is that as you weld around tube in most joints, you change the weld position. Lets take a simple but joint of 2 piece of pipe parallel to the ground. ( 5G) When you start at the bottom, you are welding overhead, then as you continue, you transition to vertical and then flat. That means you 1st need to be capable of doing basic welds in all positions, flat, horizontal, vertical and overhead. If not, you'll fight that learning curve.2nd As you weld around pipe, the surface you are welding is constantly changing in relationship to an imaginary xy axis. However when you weld, you need to maintain a consistent angle of the torch to the material. An easy way to think of this is to view a piece of pipe as a bunch of individually connected flats. Each "flat" is a line tangent to the center of the pipe. Your torch angle is constant to that line at all times. However as you move around the pipe that imaginary line changes like the hands of a clock, so you must constantly shift your torch to maintain that relationship.I'm not doing that great a job explaining this this morning, but there have been plenty of posts on this in the past that explain it better.I'd 1st make sure you can do welds in all positions before transitioning to tube..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:X2 on what DSW said about round tubing.You have to give the people credit that Tig aircraft and car chassis out of CM round tubing in all sorts of positions and wind up with the stack of dime looking welds.Like they say Practice make perfect.
Reply:That makes perfect sense.Welding square tubing sitting on a table is no diff than welding a t joint horizontal.Understood.
Reply:Originally Posted by JwdihoThis was the side that had a <1/16" gap from the square tube rolling over. The uncut looks bad, but it might be exaggerated in the pic slightly.
Reply:Thanks for all the advice.Practiced the T joints.Practiced on some 16g. and welded up my seat pan (16g to 18g corner joint). Went OK. It was hard not washing away the edge on a corner joint. I just didn't have the skill to pinpoint the heat. Basically welded an inch or two at a time. backing up and tying in at the end of each bead. what is that called? No problems blowing through at least. 1/16" lanth, 40amps (couldn't control the heat at 60 amps), .030" mig wire, #6 cupany closer than this and it bead looks bad. LOL.Got some cold rolled 1" tube 0.063" wall to practice when I weld the frame bracing. I said what the hell, let's try. Damn it was hard. Even though I tried welding 1/4 at a time, it felt like I was stitching it together and not very well. These are my first two. Practice, practice, practice.1/16" lanth, 60 amps, 1/8" wire, #6 cupTrying to find where to prop is the biggest problem.Of course, a WP-26 torch doesn't help either, I'm probably going to spring for a micro torch or a 9. with the lightweight hose. And gas lens.Last edited by Jwdiho; 06-24-2014 at 12:34 PM.
Reply:At least you've got the balls to post up your beginning welds, which is more than I can say for many newbs who want to jump right into welding round tubing frames and ask a whole bunch of questions without so much as a click on their smartphone camera (I call those guys "askholes", lol).  I know where you're coming from because I had to modify some longtube headers for my racecar as a 1st project.  It's been a couple years, and I'd like to think my welding has improved.  As a hobbyist myself, all I can say just keep at it.  Most important things are heat control via arc length and torch angle and mixed in there is fit-up----you will not have good heat control if you have large gaps, because then you gotta wander the arc all over the place to try and bridge gaps.  Get a TIG finger so you can prop on your pinky. Spend the few extra bucks on tools (air tools preferably) so you can have have a multitude of grinders, cutters, etc, available immediately at your disposal.  Trust me it helps that when I need to "touch up" something before a weld, I don't have to say "F it! I'll just weld it as-is", but rather I immediately grab the proper air tool to shape/grind/cut it or whatever, without having to switch grinding discs/accy's.  It makes working with metal that much more enjoyable to be able to just grab a tool and get to work.Nothing wrong with a 26 torch, but it will help you immensely if you get a stubby gas lens kit----not only is the alumina cup much shorter, you can extend the electrode much farther to see the joint, without the tungsten stickout already adding to a loooong std. alumina cup that is standard on a 17/26 torch.  The 9 series torch is nice because it is small and light, but it does tend to get kinda hot even if not approaching its 125A DC limit.  You're best bet (air cooled) would a be a 17 series flex-head with a stubby gas lens kit.  A lot of times when I was using a 17 air-cooled non-flexhead torch, I would suspend the cable above me (somehow, lol), leaving just a bit of slack to move the torch around, and hold the torch upside down, using the long back-cap to help grip the whole torch as a pencil.  This helped immensely, but only on certain situations/joints.Look at how straight my wrist is using the "pencil" hold, vs my normal hold.I'm not saying you'll always be able to switch up the hold on the torch, but it helps to try stuff out.  Obviously after a while, the bending back of the hand at the wrist won't play as much as a factor because you won't even be thinking about it, and it will just be instinct.  But just try it----when first starting out, it's a good relief to not have to worry about twitching your wrist backwards and makes focusing on the weld that much easier.Here is the same 26 torch with a CK stubby gas lens kit.  Even with a slightly extended stick-out, it is still "shorter" than the std alumina cup by itself.Last edited by Oscar; 06-24-2014 at 03:17 PM. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Great stuff
Reply:On the outside corner, what does the root look like on the inside? Getting all the way thru to the root is usually one of the harder parts.1/8" filler on .063 is huge. Your filler is twice the thickness of the base material. There's no way you can melt the filler with the puddle. Remember you melt the filler with the puddle, NOT the arc.  Ideally you'd probably want to be using like .045 or .035 filler. 1/16" would be tough, but doable. Hardest part with filler that size would be the knife edges on a coped joint as the edges will burn back long before the filler will want to melt most times..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Very true, didn't eve see that part that you were trying to use 2" round bar as filler wire   Leave the 1/8" filler rod for when you weld up 5/16 -3/8" plate.    Get on www.weldingsupply.com and order up some 0.030", 0.035", 0.045", & 1/16" filler rod. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:No, I was mistaken. I don't even own any 1/8" rod. Dumb me.It was 1/16". And like you said, even then, it was marginal.I dislike straightening mig wire so the link for smaller sized filler wire is great. Thanks!Anyway, I just HAD to try it. I'll go back to the 1/8" stuff and running some beads in different positions. Try to get better at spacing out my dips and travel.Maybe this weekend try another couple tube joints.I want to weld like Michael Jordan played ball. But first I've got to learn to dribble. lol.
Reply:Here's the backside of the corner weld.I see what you mean. There are a few places where the root is not fused.
Reply:Considering what I often see when guys try outside corners, that's not too bad at all. While you do have areas that didn't penetrate 100%, I'd say you have more that did than didn't. Practice will improve your consistency on both sides of the weld..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Had an AH-HA moment while practicing on 1/8" steel.Even though I knew it, it never registered. The rod "freezes" the puddle and creates the pattern on the weld. (pulsing with pedal or machine will do the same I guess)For some reason, when I thought of it this way, the welds were "prettier." Not necessarily better.I really sucked at the start and end of the welds (middle wasn't great either, LOL), maybe a little slower upslope to give me a chance to set up. Again, blown up they look like s*&t. Poor edge control on some of the lap joints.I went over my budget and splurged for a smaller flex loc air cooled 9 torch and a set of gas lens. It felt really really good and I am very happy I spent the $$.An autodark helmet in the future maybe. Right now, I'm welding with a dark fixed shade 13.Thanks to all that spent time replying with advise and suggestions.Last edited by Jwdiho; 06-27-2014 at 02:38 PM.
Reply:Had another slight AH-HA moment.I was welding 1/8" steel t joints and was never happy with the first bead. Whenever I went over the bead a second time, the result looked much better. There was no undercutting, bead was wider with nicer "dimes." I was racking my brain why???? Then it occurred to me that there was simply more material on the second pass to create the desired look of the bead.So I looked up the filler rod size and found out that miller recommended 3/32". So I made the switch and eureka! First pass looked much better. Shiny, stacked bead. Speed was quicker. Granted it's not pro grade, I know...It seems so obvious in retrospect, but had no clue it would make that kind of difference.Last edited by Jwdiho; 06-29-2014 at 04:18 PM.
Reply:Try to get a small fan so you can hang the 9-torch in front of it every so often.  You will find that it will start to get hot quickly, even while just practicing.  I used to just hang it over-and-in-front of the welder right in the path of the airflow louvers so it would get at least a little bit of cool-off while I had to do something else like clean/get new pieces. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Sure needed the fan these last few days. Hot and humid. Not great welding weather.Well, my experience has been filled with small Oh-so-that's-how-it's-done moments. The latest came with my attempts at welding the 1" x 0.063" tube.I was using 1/16" filler and basically melting the joint into a mess before the filler rod would melt in the puddle. the results were pretty horrible to say the least...Then I picked up some 0.030" mig wire and tried and wow, narrower bead, cleaner joint! It still looks all disjointed and stuff but this was definitely a step in the right direction.I'll have to pick up some slightly larger 0.035"/0.040" filler rods before this weekend. Filler rod size matters as much as amps and tungsten size. At least at this point in my learning curve.And I'll probably need another tank of argon! My first milestone.For tubing like that, joint preparation is just as important as skill.  We can't see how the joint was BEFORE you welded, so that may not be helping you trying to flatten out the learning curve.  Just notching the tube is not enough to create a good fit-up.  The best fabricators do a little-extra fine-tuning of the edges to get a better joint for welding. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Getting there. Just keep practicing..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:For set up, I just use the coping calc at metalgeek. then a bench grinder, then a round file. Not an airtight fit up that's for sure.This is off the bench grinder after some filing and cleaning with 300grit sandpaper and wiped down0.045" filler, 6 gas lens, 1/16" tungsten, 55ampsUGLY sideless ugly sideI'm worried I'm too cold and just laying a bead on the tube joint.Hard. It's like freehand drawing in 3D. The bead records every little mistake on the metal.I'm much happier with the 0.045" wire filler. Seems to be a happy medium.Too bad it takes me 20 minutes to set up the pieces to weld. I only do 2-3 a night.
Reply:You are working with some of the toughest stuff to get down well, so don't be at all surprised if you don't get it right away. IIRC you are pretty new at tig, so you are also probably trying to learn a lot of the basics all at the same time on tough material, I fairly common issue with many new welders. It's a lot easier to learn in small stages rather than all at once like you are. We have students learn all the positions with tig on flat material 1st, then shift them to thinner stock. When they start on pipe, we start them off with large diameter pipe since they don't have to make changes in torch angle as fast as they do with smaller tube.The key to some of this is to remember that round pipe is just a series of very short flat sections connected together. You just have to make sure your torch is angled properly for each short segment. Smaller the tube, the shorter the segment is, and the faster you must change to match the "flat" surface where the puddle is. If you don't, you long arc and make a mess. Many guys when they move to pipe keep wanting to weld as if it was just a regular flat surface and so they aren't changing the angle fast or frequently enough. This tends to be especially true at the end of their weld. They seem to try and reach to get a bit more weld done vs either changing the angle of the torch, or simply stopping and repositioning.To me it looks like you are having this issue when moving around the pipe in the vertical. It might be because of what I mentioned about tube, or it could be because you really aren't ready to do vertical welds yet even on flat material, let alone pipe.Fit up looks fair. You have to watch when you prep tube that you don't have knife edges that can foul you up because of the really thin material. That usually happens at what would be the lowest point in your picts of the T's.No big surprise you are taking a bit to prep these. I tell students more than 90% of their time when they get to bevel buts will be in prep. If they rush the prep, I can almost guarantee they won't get a good weld. Practice will speed up the process. I can prep 4 pieces almost perfect in less time than it takes them to prep only one plate that will still need to be touched up.  I've simply done so many of them I know exactly what to do and not waste time. A good tube notcher will cut your fit up time, but it's not required. It can all be done by hand, just slower. Too many times I see students rush to get to welding and have to deal with irregular gaps and lands, then their weld sucks. If I hand them one of my prepped plates, they can do fine since the fit up is consistent..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Jwdiho;    Your welds look way better than mine.  Thanks for posting.  DSW.  Thank you sir for you comprehensive and detailed posts.  I appreciate the time you take to help new weldors and I read every post that you write.  Very helpful.Last edited by WenValley; 07-04-2014 at 09:10 AM.Reason: typoLincoln Precision TIG 185.Flex-Loc 150 torch.Super-Flex hose.Lincoln MIG 180.Victor Oxy/Act torch set.DeWalt Bandsaw with SWAG stand
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWA good tube notcher will cut your fit up time, but it's not required. It can all be done by hand, just slower.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYou are working with some of the toughest stuff to get down well, so don't be at all surprised if you don't get it right away....
Reply:The good jigs are very rigid and allow very little runout. Cheap jigs simply don't fix parts as well, or they allow the cutter to wobble.Plenty of ways to do this. I've used good and cheap jigs. I've used my small drill/mill, as well as a big industrial mill a friend has set up to do nothing but cope tube with. Best results come from a good rigid system.As far as how to hold when doing tube, that's in many ways personal preference. You'll see guys who are really good do it any number of ways depending on conditions. I know it's not a "good" answer, but it's often one of those things you just have to work out for yourself, based on how you like to weld and what is working for you. A lot of this does become easier when some things simply become 2nd nature and you do it without ever thinking about it. Once things like puddle control become instinctive, you can spend your time concentrating on other parts of the equation. The only way to do that is to put in hundreds of hours of hood time. ( and I do mean hundreds of hours).No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Then I found the CNC laser tubing cutters on youtube. CMM laser. WOW.
Reply:To me, .045 sounds like just way to small of filler rod for doing that.   If I was doing that I'd be using at least a 1/16" (may be even 3/32) filler rod and running well north of 100 amps.   I'd be using a gas lens with #8 cup and 3/32 or 1/8 tungsten.   I'd do it in 4 opposite quarters taking probably less than 10 seconds / quarter.
Reply:If you have a great fitup you can use .045" filler, you'll have to feed quickly though. Your machine amps should be roughly the same as material thickness: .080" material, use ~80 amps. 300 grit is too gentle for cleanup, you're buffing up the high spots only, try 100 grit and get the joint nice and shiny. Try a little manual pulse: let off the pedal, move around the tube, add heat and filler, repeat. I've got over 1000 hrs TIGing, almost ready for tube.Last edited by Brazin; 07-04-2014 at 12:19 PM.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:thanks for the suggestions, but 100+ amps?to be clear, the tubing is cold rolled mild steel, 0.065" wall. I started at 65amps, but was constantly backing off the pedal because the puddle got out of control.But if the general consensus is I'm welding too cold, I'll change it. I'll just have to move FAST!to be honest, being cold rolled, I thought the fine sandpaper was OK. I do get shiny metal with just a few scrubs with the fine paper.tacking not at the tops and bottoms of the joint, but midway between has been helpful. I'm able to concentrate on 90 deg segments that seems to be laid out better.My biggest impediment is not being able to rotate the torch while moving forward smoothly. to keep the correct angle with the constantly changing angle of the joint. I found making tiny circles with the torch hand has made it easier for my brain to make my hand rotate while keeping relatively smooth. It's obvious I need more practice, but the mini circular movements have helped a little.One more tonight...
Reply:Jwdiho, yep, my notcher is just like that. 10 to 20 seconds I guess. I agree that usually hole saws are a PITA but I guess with pipe or tube you're sawing instead of drilling, if that makes sense. Bit like how my horizontal bandsaw goes slow when cutting the first top face of square tube, then flies through the vertical faces, then slow again at the bottom. Bandsaw also flies through round tube or pipe, like notching.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jwdihothanks for the suggestions, but 100+ amps?to be clear, the tubing is cold rolled mild steel, 0.065" wall. I started at 65amps, but was constantly backing off the pedal because the puddle got out of control.But if the general consensus is I'm welding too cold, I'll change it. I'll just have to move FAST!to be honest, being cold rolled, I thought the fine sandpaper was OK. I do get shiny metal with just a few scrubs with the fine paper.tacking not at the tops and bottoms of the joint, but midway between has been helpful. I'm able to concentrate on 90 deg segments that seems to be laid out better.My biggest impediment is not being able to rotate the torch while moving forward smoothly. to keep the correct angle with the constantly changing angle of the joint. I found making tiny circles with the torch hand has made it easier for my brain to make my hand rotate while keeping relatively smooth. It's obvious I need more practice, but the mini circular movements have helped a little.One more tonight...
Reply:Originally Posted by HT2-4956Jwdiho,Well, my bad then.  I interpreted the scale of the material in the pictures in post #28 as being around 1.5 " diameter with a 1/8" wall.   100+ amps would probably be a little excessive for .065 wall material.I have a hard time with telling others what exact amperage to use on things because I rarely set the dial on my TIG machine to a specific amperage.  I just make sure it's above what I'll be needing and then use the foot pedal to regulate exactly what I need based on the puddle width and how fast I can get filler rod to melt into it smoothly.   Other than making sure I'm with in the range given on a procedure if I'm doing code work I don't really care about what specific amperage I'm at.  I'm concentrating on making the puddle do what I want it to and regulating the foot pedal accordingly.   It's just not the thickness of the material that determines the amps you need.  How fast you can move around (or down) the joint and how fast you can get the puddle to take filler rod has a big effect on how many amps you need.   A technique you might want to try instead of intermittently adding filler metal to the puddle is to hook the filler rod to the leading edge of the puddle and then keep it there so that there's an un-interrupted, smooth flow of filler into the puddle as you move forward.   You can get some really slick smooth welds that way.   When it comes to intermittent daubing though I would recommend going with smaller daubs more closely spaced versus bigger daubs more widely spaced.  So if you were adding a 1/4" inch of filler rod every 1/8" try going with an 1/8" of filler rod every 1/16".   Every time you add filler to the puddle it chills it off and there's a recovery time for it to come back up so it can flow forward smoothly.  So if you add less filler metal more often it acts to keep things closer to an ideal equilibrium..045 filler is probably a pretty good choice for using on .065 wall tube.  I thought we were talking about some thing heavier walled when I said in an earlier post that .045 sounded a little small.
Reply:I've watched a bunch of Jody's videos and for the most part I think he's doing a hell of a great job.  I've been TIG welding for almost 40 years now and he's still managed to show me a few tips and tricks I didn't know.  There are how ever a few minor things I disagree with him on.  And one of them is that repeated backing up technique you mentioned.   It's my opinion that it's better to keep all your other factors in balance (like heat, travel speed and rate of filler rod addition) so that you can maintain a nice steady forward progression.  That repeatedly backing up thing just strikes me as an unnecessary complication that just slows you down and causes you to end up putting way more heat into a piece than is really necessary.Another technique that I've seen mentioned quite a bit on the forums and that I regard in much the same way is this manually pulsing the current.  Once again I regard that as just another unnecessary over complication that's not really gaining you any thing that couldn't be achieved a lot easier by keeping other factors in balance.   I've had pulsed TIG welding be my friend in certain situations before but only when the machine was doing the pulsing and not me rhythmically trying to pump up and down on the pedal.   I consider that one of those things that while it may sound good in theory doesn't usually translate all that well into actual practice.Any how that's my .02 on it.
Reply:Originally Posted by HT2-4956I've watched a bunch of Jody's videos and for the most part I think he's doing a hell of a great job.  I've been TIG welding for almost 40 years now and he's still managed to show me a few tips and tricks I didn't know.  There are how ever a few minor things I disagree with him on.  And one of them is that repeated backing up technique you mentioned.   It's my opinion that it's better to keep all your other factors in balance (like heat, travel speed and rate of filler rod addition) so that you can maintain a nice steady forward progression.  That repeatedly backing up thing just strikes me as an unnecessary complication that just slows you down and causes you to end up putting way more heat into a piece than is really necessary.Another technique that I've seen mentioned quite a bit on the forums and that I regard in much the same way is this manually pulsing the current.  Once again I regard that as just another unnecessary over complication that's not really gaining you any thing that couldn't be achieved a lot easier by keeping other factors in balance.   I've had pulsed TIG welding be my friend in certain situations before but only when the machine was doing the pulsing and not me rhythmically trying to pump up and down on the pedal.   I consider that one of those things that while it may sound good in theory doesn't usually translate all that well into actual practice.Any how that's my .02 on it.
Reply:I could be wrong, but I don't think I've ever seen him do that backing-up on thin tubing, only thicker stuff. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Who needs a pulser when you are a jedi welder? (referring to another thread, lol)WoW! just WoW.Jody saw this video and posted it. Then the guys sent in pics of some of his welds. Stunning!http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...o-steel-1.htmlThis is 7 years ago. I wonder what he does/how good he is now?This is what I aspire to...Last edited by Jwdiho; 07-10-2014 at 11:33 PM.
Reply:I don't know how he could make it look any easier.  Who couldn't do that?  LOL.  Easy peasy...  Makes me wonder how I make such a hash out of TIG welding...   Lincoln Precision TIG 185.Flex-Loc 150 torch.Super-Flex hose.Lincoln MIG 180.Victor Oxy/Act torch set.DeWalt Bandsaw with SWAG stand
Reply:So, I had this ambitious thought that I would weld 2-3 joints a day for a month for 70-80 total. Maybe try some different angles along the way, different techniques.This latest one, I wrapped around the joint some aluminum foil to help shield the weld. I'm pretty happy with the results. Particularly on the "flat" parts of the joint, I was carrying the wrong torch angle and losing shielding.Another thing I learned is that as you are going through the 2g part of the weld, horizontal, you must hold the torch in the correct position, pointed slightly upward. I was coming from the 90 degree angle and had the torch pointed down. the arc force and gravity was forcing the puddle down and smearing the weld bead too wide. Took me a long time to figure this out. (something that I would have known had I followed DSW recommendations and practiced the right way)These things I'm writing as I learn them in hopes of helping someone along the way. I'm sure I sound like a complete newbie to the oldtime welders here. This is my 18th weld joint...(better side of course)I'm prepping the joints 2 at a time now and can do 2 in the time it used to take me to do one. Sometimes, I'll purposefully leave a gap. Others, I try for a tight fit up.
Reply:Did you pay attention to that magnificent torch angle?  Constantly rotating the torch around the quadrant he is welding, always keeping a near 90° angle to the joint.BTW, are you cleaning the scale off those tubes?  I don't see much of any swirl marks from a grinding wheel/flap disk, but I could be wrong.Last edited by Oscar; 07-11-2014 at 12:05 AM. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Yeah, I see. manually pulsing seems to let him make those discrete rotational movements with the torch. I wonder if the movement would differ if he welded with a "constant" pedal?The tubes are cold rolled and I hand sand them outside and inside with some 300g sand paper then wipe them down with solvent. They are very shiny when I do this. How do I know if I need to do more??? 98% of the time the welds show no porosity. Every once in a while one pops up.
Reply:It's coming to me, now...I was having difficulty on the "horizontal" portion of the weld and was getting frustrated yesterday. Then it hit me today that I'm basically welding a lap joint at that point. And then it became clearer. Not only are you traveling around a tube, you are transitioning from a fillet weld to a lap weld back to a fillet. When I welded it like that, for some reason it turned out much better and I felt much more comfortable.Still undercut. that's not acceptable, but at least the bead is much more consistent!Last edited by Jwdiho; 07-14-2014 at 12:59 AM.
Reply:If you want to weld like production dude ^, maybe 2 joints a day isn't enough Try to see how fast you can run off  ~30 SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A