Invertec 205 problem

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Hi All,Having tried the cheaper (read chinese) option I got my refund and went out and bought a 2nd Invertec 205 from a local welding store. They assured me it worked fine. Before you tell me to go back to them, I will once they open again on Tuesday (and I have also contacted Lincoln for help). In the meantime when I have work to do on the weekend I thought someone hear may be able to offer some insight to my problem.1st of all everything everything turns on as normal and all lights are one where they are supposed to be. Finger switch only at the moment as I have a foot control on its way from SSC Control Company.When I press the the control on to start the arc, all I get is one of the following:- more often then not, small spark between electrode and work piece; or- it starts a puddle and then comes on and off like it is pulsing but pulsing is off and it drops all the way to 0 amps before going back up to the weld current value. When it decides to do this, it instantly turns the end of the tungsten into a ball (started sharp) and emits a yellow gas once I stop.I have tried setting the starting current higher in the start up parameters, but that done nothing.Any ideas ??? Your help is much appreciated....and desperately needed.Thanks,ArielMy weekend hobby -
Reply:Got good gas flow?  That would explain the tungsten turning yellow.  Its the only thing I know of.Does it stick weld?  My V155S will do that if I am trying to tig in stick mode.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:yeah the gas flow is not a problemyes it is in ac tig mode - i mainly weld aluiniumMy weekend hobby -
Reply:Well, because you are not getting an error code, your setup is wrong, right now I'd be inclined to say that you've got the machine in "4 step" mode, change it to 2 step. I've got the service manual open right now, I need to know your parameters.You have picked a virtually automatic machine, once the parameters are set, all you have to do is click it on. The machine takes over. You might want to re-read if you haven't already your owners manual.Jeff AmosLincoln Tech.
Reply:I'm thinking your best bet would being simply using a simple arcstart switch and setting your parameters on your machine. Hit the swtich, let the machine do it's thing, Hit the switch again when your done, and again let the machine end your weld the way the parameters are set.Anyways, this problem is purely knowledge on that machine. It is quite a nice but high tech machine.What is happening now in 4 step, is that your getting your start, but you have to hit the remote switch again to start your weld.Jeff
Reply:I have tried both 2 & 4 step, but neither do the job. I will try again today and see how I go.I thought i did see an error code 08 but it makes no mention of it in the manual. I'll get my parameters today and will post them up.Thanks to both Jeff'sLast edited by ISL33P; 10-04-2008 at 04:32 PM.My weekend hobby -
Reply:The '08' displayed... sounds like part of the normal 'powering up' routine- switch on and everything lights up, 08 is displayed (mine displays 03 but it's an old version) momentarily before the panel lights and display revert to normal i.e. displaying current and other settings. There's more info on the hidden menu settings etc hereBalling tungstens accompanied by yellow smoke...  you have got PURE argon, definately no leaks? Aircooled or with watercooler?
Reply:"08" is just the software version in case you were wondering
Reply:ok, just went to the workshop to test it outreset all the settings, put the ac control parameters as per the manual and it works a treat...but dam i hate the 2t or 4t functions, i can wait for the pedal to turn up.as for the yellowing, i think it just wasn't enough post flow.one thing i did notice is that on my last weld it displayed the single digit 1 on the screen during post flow, is this normal ?as usual, the manchines are always right and its usually the operator. this is my first machine with anything apart from down slope or amp control. the tig i just sold was the lincoln precision tig 175.Thank you to all, know I can sleep tonight.ArielMy weekend hobby -
Reply:Originally Posted by ISL33Pok, just went to the workshop to test it outreset all the settings, put the ac control parameters as per the manual and it works a treat...but dam i hate the 2t or 4t functions, i can wait for the pedal to turn up.as for the yellowing, i think it just wasn't enough post flow.one thing i did notice is that on my last weld it displayed the single digit 1 on the screen during post flow, is this normal ?as usual, the manchines are always right and its usually the operator. this is my first machine with anything apart from down slope or amp control. the tig i just sold was the lincoln precision tig 175.Thank you to all, know I can sleep tonight.Ariel
Reply:i just went back to the workshop anbd now it is doing the exact same thing, this just a initial spark for arc and nothing else.setting are (no pulse)up slope 0.2welding current 100ampsdown slope 1end current 8post flow 2 secfreq at 100balance at 65gas 15preflow is factory setting 2 secondsall i done was a couple of beads on an angle and then turned the peice over to the the join and from there it didnt work. its seems to be ok for a 2-5 minutes and then dies. i even tried resetting it thru option 9 and still nothing.it does have this ticking noise, much like a heartbeat/timer, coming from the inside ???........i am starting to lose my patience, not that I have muchArielMy weekend hobby -
Reply:2 seconds postflow ain't enough. You can get away with less postflow with a watercooled torch but (tacking aside) at 100A AC i'd have at least 5 secs, usually more for the welds sake. Been a while since i've used an aircooled set but you'd need more. I assume the 'hidden' settings are at factory default still?This could be the reason behind the starting issues you mentioned in the OP, even if the tungsten isn't obviously oxidisedTicking noise... only thing that makes that noise is the gas solenoid, when it pulls in. When i'm (really!) low on gas the solenoid sometimes sticks- strike an arc and... nothing, most of the time, but occasionally it'll arc up without enough gas flow- instant carnage. That would explain your symptoms. First thing i'd do is get someone to watch the flow meter while you run some short welds, listening for the gas solenoid too.
Reply:Good point Hotrodder. If my gas flow is set way too low, or there is no more gas, I will get sometimes a click. But then again, I mash the pedal, and smoke the weld and the tungsten, so I know I have another problem.Ariel, does it tick constantly, or intermittently?And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Thermal arc recommends 1 second post flow for each 10 amps.  I think this is a little high.  5 seconds for 100 amps is OK for me.I just look at the electrode.  If its not quite enough, the tip will be black.  If its really not enough, the whole sharpened part will be black or yellow.I stay between 5 and 15 seconds depending on amps.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:The ticking is constant. I am running at the bottom of the bottle. There is still plenty of gas when I press the trigger and if I adjust the gas flow during this time you can tell the difference coming from the torch.I will get a new bottle during the week and see how I go. edit - This may also explain why it works after giving it a rest...it may simply be the lack of gas pressure in the bottle.Thanks again.My weekend hobby -
Reply:Originally Posted by ISL33PThe ticking is constant. I am running at the bottom of the bottle. There is still plenty of gas when I press the trigger and if I adjust the gas flow during this time you can tell the difference coming from the torch.I will get a new bottle during the week and see how I go. edit - This may also explain why it works after giving it a rest...it may simply be the lack of gas pressure in the bottle.Thanks again.
Reply:well it seems that was the case. I went back to the shop and done a few ac and dc runs and she done that same thing and the gauge is hardly moving when it open the valve.A new bottle and game on. From what I have done so far, this is one hell of a nice welder and very powerful compared to the precision tig 175.Thank you all again.Now its time to make myself a watercooler.ArielMy weekend hobby -
Reply:Hi ArialSorry bud i havn't been on this site for a long time!Could of helped you out from the start!It's not so much the bottle but more your reg that is giving you s*$tWhen i bought my 205 brand new i had a simular problem, it came with a binzel torch set and this pissy little harris reg which was freezing up in the diaphragm and causing the gas to stop.Now i'm sure if i'm wrong the experts here will shoot me downThe way i understand it these machines don't use a conventional HF to burn the oxide layer off the alloy rather they modify there waveform to do as much of the burning as possible?However this can make arc starting rather poor, and can be alot poorer if the arc is struck in open air rather than a inert environment....?Now i'm now rocket scientist but i think that is how they work and my reg problem caused similar issues.As for the foot pedal your waiting on thats like buy the latest computer and running it on windows 95.Your machine is completely variable, if you want to control heat input on small jobs dial in alot of upslope and about half as much down this way in 2 step mode you can control your heat using the button. Well thats what i do anyway, or have a go with the pulse on alloy try around 55% on and 1.2hz this gives you a nice hot pool the stick your wire in which quickly cools down as you move along.Hey each to there own though, i rushed out and bought a foot pedal when i first bought mine now it's in the cupboard somewhere....Hope i've helped a little, if the arc starting doesn't get any better i have the access codes to get into the sub program where you can turn the HF start intensity from 1 to 5I have mine on 1 as i find the tungsten balls slightly on start up in DC see my post about it.Have fun with your machine they are one of the best out there.
Reply:Yep, inverters don't use conventional HF (capacitor discharge or something instead) to start the arc, they don't use/need continuous HF for AC at all- it's not needed to keep the arc lit as they switch polarity quickly rather than smoothly cycling between EN and EP. HF has nothing to do with oxide 'cleaning'. The oxide is moved during the EP phase of AC, the 'balance' adjustment skews the AC waveform giving more time in either EN or EPShielding gas (or lack of!) will effect starting, arc starts are more 'difficult' if helium is used for example because it has a higher ionization potential than argon- needs higher voltagesPersonally i prefer a foot remote if i'm sat/stood at the work, they can be a PITA when moving around a larger fabrication. 4T offers more control than 2T but takes a few welds to get comfortable withPress and hold to strike up, remains at the start currentRelease button and it slopes up to main ampsPress and hold to slope down to crater current, releasing the button will end the weld and start post flow OR (if restarting/latching is enabled) you can slope back up by pressing the button again without breaking the arcRestarting can be enabled for 2T as well but i've always found it less comfortable as the button needs holding down constantly. Don't know about anyone else but i find the microswitches to be pretty random- some seem to 'bug out' rather quickly. After having one die part way through a job (and having to finish it operating a foot remote with my elbow ) i keep a couple of spares to handGlad you found the problem Ariel. Is it still ticking constantly or did that disappear with a fresh bottle? Aside from a slight whine during start up these machines don't make any (unusual) noises other than a click as the gas solenoid is triggered
Reply:Thats why I mentioned that a simple switch was way better than the foot control or hand remote control. Let the machine do it's thing via your set parameters
Reply:seems it wasnt the low gas after all.the gas solenoid/switch continues to play havoc with the machine continually turning it on and off. regardless if i reset the machine , more gas flow or anything I do.Cruizer - any ideas ? I will be returning the machine to the shop on Monday morning so maybe leading them in the right direction might help. Feel free to pm or email me if you like.Another weekend goes buy where I lose time & money.My weekend hobby -
Reply:edit - it is the switch you see on the left side toward the rear of the machine when you pull the cover off. it is covered by a clear platic box. its just a simple switch which is continually turning itself on and off. is the the are switch suggesting maybe there is something wrong with my torch control ? reason why i say this is becuase is as i time pressing the on button on the torch to start an arc with the switch in the machine turning on, it does create an arc for approx 0.5 secs then stops again when it switches off.looking at Jeff with desperation lolArielLast edited by ISL33P; 10-11-2008 at 03:59 AM.My weekend hobby -
Reply:Well just take a paper clip and stuff it into the "D" & "E" remote terminals on your machine.That'll turn on your machine and tell you if the remote or machine is at fault. I'd guess its the remote as you have not reported any error codes on this forumI have this site and others switching from site to site  on my 52" plasma in my shop in case you were wondering how I answer questions quickly and still manage to get work done. Sometimes though when I am working I broadcast a large wiring diagram so I can see it from across the shop, and use a different computer to answer the questions, it only has a 42" screen......Last edited by Cruizer; 10-11-2008 at 11:11 AM.
Reply:First of all, thanks Jeff for keeping in touch.Do you mean the "D" & "E" terminals for the remote amp control ? If so, I have tried this with the machine turned on and off and it does nothing. Or do you mean the plug on the base of the machine which I assume is the diagnosis plug which only has 4 out of a possible 10 pins.Now the thing is, I turn the machine on this machine and it is not making the noise. It seems to be inconsistent and making me look like a bit of a fool. Its seems to work until I lay down a few welds on either AC or DC and then it starts flicking the switch on and off. This is inline with the initial comments where it was moody and I thought it was the gas level but we have shown that this is not the case now.Thanks heaps,ArielPS is there a help line I can call. I much prefer talking then typing.My weekend hobby -
Reply:Yes, the remote 6 pin "D" & "E". OK one more thing, how does it stick weld or tig weld in DC??, or is it the same?JeffI'm going through the service manual....I think the 4 / 10 pin unit is for remote start for a robotic application.
Reply:When you jumper pins "D" & "E" the machine must be set in Local control. Jumpering these pins is the same as using an Arc Start switch. I assume your using 230 volts and not 115 Vac, as that throws a wrench into things as weel, because the parameters are different for both.There is a gas pressure sensor, make sure you didn't use any teflon tape as that gums up the filter screen, and the machine thinks you have an erratic gas pressureLast edited by Cruizer; 10-11-2008 at 08:19 PM.
Reply:You can't test your machine without actually attempting a weld with it. Machine needs to know you've started welding or will sit in the purge and start modes indefinately, ie, the cycling your getting.May be a bad torch, ie, the conduit has partially pulled out of the torch harness, that would be my best guess after a couple of long boring reads of the service manual. Use the unit in arc start modes in 2 or 4 step by turning the machine to local mode and either clicking on the hand control or stepping on the foot control, to see of it contnues past the start mode.Still don't really know what the 4 pins are for, service manual shows them on the wiring diagram, but makes no mention of them elsewhere. I'll call Lincoln on Monday to find out. Looks like they are for a CNC though.
Reply:Jeff, seems it was the trigger in the torch playing up. Once i jiggled it a little bit it sorted it self out.I had tried this before but didn't work.Once again, thank you for all your help and I will keep this a reference for any problems I may have, if any.This is one hell of a nice welder and makes me look better than what I really am. I never thought there would be so much difference between 175 to 200 amp machine let alone transformer to inverter.Now off to ebay to buy all the bits for a water cooler and torch.Happy welding,ArielMy weekend hobby -
Reply:Well there is not much I don't know about a 205 now, thanks to this post.
Reply:It seems the problem has come about again and I can confirm it has nothing to do with the torch. It has been working fine for the past couple of weeks (all ac tig aluminium) and then this week I started off on dc tig to do some work on my engine bay and since then it has gone loopy again.It is simply the internal switch to turn the arc on and off which continually goes on/off/on/off/on/off .......If I turn the main power off and on again stragiht 30 seconds later, starts againit starts the same thing all over again and same happens if I reset the machine the the menu. If I leave for say an hour, then turn the machine on and its OK and then then 30 seconds later it starts the whole on/off thing again.Reminder its a 2005 machine but one of those made in italy.Could it just be the switch which is faulty ? Cruizer - is ther a  phone number I can call on Monday ? Regardless I am dropping it off to where I bought it from for repair.Thanks,ArielMy weekend hobby -
Reply:Your past your warranty period. check the cord plug in, it may be loose, and your not picking enough power up for the machine to function correctly.Last edited by Cruizer; 11-02-2008 at 02:36 PM.
Reply:didn't think of that, thanksthe shop was having a look at it this afternoon...i'll let you know how i goMy weekend hobby -
Reply:Did you try changing your argon reg?Or the torch i've pulled apart my hand piece and repaired the wiring a few times....
Reply:tried two different regs, same thing.just purchased a brand new foot controller and it was doing it before i bought it with finger and now foot controlafter take two at the shop, it seems they have fixed it. seems there circuit board was stuffed.My weekend hobby -
Reply:Cruizer - how much is a new circuit board ?My weekend hobby -
Reply:well, its circuit boards plural, best to take it into a repair shop for verification on which one.
Reply:since the problem has never been fixed, i thought i would post a vid of what is happening inside the machine to help understand what the problem is.any thought, hints or tips as to what it may be. this started happenig after the machine was left turned on iwithout using it for approximately 5 mintes.[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_mt9NKlXT0[/ame]My weekend hobby -
Reply:Was the problem similar with the "chinese" option?  That weak spark simply means that you are having ground issues.  That is also why it is transient.  Replace your clamp and/or cable.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:weak spark problem fixed....crap in the foot controller in the way of the switch. still having the problem like in the video though ????My weekend hobby -
Reply:well for a machine that is used for a maximum of 2 hours per weekend (i sits idle during the week), I am quite disappointed its needs a new board. not worth the hassle and the ridiculous amount of money for a new board so i am buying a htp or kemppi this week.i am currently using a cebora hire machine and they are an absolute dream...pity about the $$$$$ otherwise i would buy one of theseremember im in australia and everything over here is imported so we get the best from all over the world.edit - and considering there is a known problem with the inverter machines made in italy, nothing has been offered to solve a known problemLast edited by ISL33P; 07-25-2009 at 07:33 PM.My weekend hobby -