Lincoln 300/300 Tig welder and 250

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Im about to buy a Lincoln 300/300 and 250. Both the machines are big industrial tig welders and both have "a problem" and were in for basic repair. They're both complete and sitting on a pallet right now and they arent beat up, the paint is still good on them but Im just wondering if these machines are relatively simple to work on? They're both 80's models by the loooks of em. Im getting them for $100 apiece. Im hoping to get at least one of them working right and then use the heck outta it. Thanks all My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:We've got a 300/300 at the shop and it requires a 100amp circuit at 230v to run very long on high range.  Nice machine though and the one I laid down my very first TIG beads with. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=24340MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55We've got a 300/300 at the shop and it requires a 100amp circuit at 230v to run very long on high range.  Nice machine though and the one I laid down my very first TIG beads with. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=24340
Reply:i have owned an idealarc 250 ac/dc tig for 20 + yrs and its been a  work horsewas used when i got it
Reply:has anybody got a picture of the inner workings of one of these so I can see what kind of trouble im getting myself in  If I get both of them working would I be better off keeping the 250 or the 300? I like the looks of the 300, its grey with a black faceplate and the 250 is red with a black faceplate.My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Originally Posted by bigblueIs there anything I should check first when I get them? Is it still possible to get many parts for them? thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Blow it out good, remove all the mud dauber nests, check over all the connections, clean out the gas and water ports if they've been left open, check the HF spark gap, plug it in and if it powers up give it a go!
Reply:I got the welders home yesterday and took the panels off the 300 and blew it out with air. Everything looks in good shape, nothing burnt the fan turns and moves good. The only thing I see wrong is the two electrodes to adjust the hi freq intensity? are gone. Will the welder still be able to weld with these gone? im going to try and replace them, if I knew what they were originally made of I could make them on the lathe. Today I might be able to get some photos if it will stop raining  thanksMy vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:I called stumpfs and they have the electrodes for only $10! I still havent wired the machine up yet, but I checked the pc boards in the 300/300 and it looks brand new. The 250 on the other hand looks as though it was dropped in a lake. The board in it is fried and pieces are crumbled. I guess its gonna go for copper. The 250 has a barcode on the front of it that says govt property. They sure beat the hell outta the poor thing. My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Originally Posted by bigblueI called stumpfs and they have the electrodes for only $10! I still havent wired the machine up yet, but I checked the pc boards in the 300/300 and it looks brand new..
Reply:Sadly the welders didnt come with any coolers but he did throw in an old Air Products tig torch with about 25 ft of lead. Its missing a few parts and the cap that holds the tungsten in place. Another cool thing I got was while looking around the shop where the welders were I found an old Victor cutting torch and the guy said it was probably bad so he gave it to me. I had it sent off to get cleaned and checked from welsco, which is why I'll be going back hopefully later this week I'll also see if I can get parts for the tig torch.My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Well Im pretty bummed out. I wired the machine up and every time I flip the machine on it buzzes loud and throws the breaker. Its turning the fan and the on light comes on but it also makes the light in the shop go dim and then it throws the breaker. Ive got the copper strap on the back of the machine set to low and its only on a 50 amp breaker. I thought that surely it can at least turn on and not throw the breaker. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.bigblue My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Do you know if the particular 300/300 you have is a dual voltage model? Might want to check the jumper plate to make sure it is set up for the correct input voltage (230v vs. 460v). The unit may have been in a place where they had 460v.If you look on page 3 of 24 of the pdf you'll see what I'm talking about. (that is what mine looks like)http://content.lincolnelectric.com//...r/im/IM243.pdfIf the picture on the front of the manual is not what yours looks like you can search for other manuals here. Some appear to be duplicates. Just type in 300/300 and search.http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...ualsearch.aspxDo you have the hf electrodes gapped correctly? Don't think that would cause what you describe though.Good luck
Reply:My machine is a late eighties to early nineties  model and I dont think its a dual voltage. The two hf electrodes are gone from the machine but I thought i would still be able to at least see if the machine is working. Its got three selections on the back for power, hi low and med. Ive got it set on low and it still throws the 50 amp breaker in about two seconds.Last edited by bigblue; 07-22-2009 at 05:18 PM.My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:http://content.lincolnelectric.com//...r/im/IM353.pdfThis is what my welder looks like. It has a weird code number that I was told means it was a special order. SPL-B695-86  It has a tag on the side cover with a company name and the year 1988. So im guessing its an 88' model.My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:bb, Did you change the location of the control lead as well as the power strap?  The 'low' setting is for 208 on a triple voltage machine.  If that's what you've got and you're shop is wired for 230 the power strap and control lead need to be on 'medium'.  Refer to page 4 & 5 in your manual.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55bb, Did you change the location of the control lead as well as the power strap?  The 'low' setting is for 208 on a triple voltage machine.  If that's what you've got and you're shop is wired for 230 the power strap and control lead need to be on 'medium'.  Refer to page 4 & 5 in your manual.
Reply:Contactor could be 'welded' closed and/or something shorted like an output diode or the input transformer.  The loud buzz would indicate to me a significant short.  Look closer for evidence of a short or fried component.  Unhook the power transformer outputs so there's no load and see if it still trips.  If it does the transformer has failed (shorted).  If it doesn't, hook it back up and unhook the next component and try it again.  Rather crude but. . .Oh, and yes, it will fire up on a 50amp breaker.  Ours used to be on a 60amp and could weld up to the lower side of HIGH range before it would trip after a few minutes of TIGing.Last edited by duaneb55; 07-22-2009 at 10:59 PM.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Contactor could be 'welded' closed and/or something shorted like an output diode or the input transformer.  The loud buzz would indicate to me a significant short.  Look closer for evidence of a short or fried component.  Unhook the power transformer outputs so there's no load and see if it still trips.  If it does the transformer has failed (shorted).  If it doesn't, hook it back up and unhook the next component and try it again.  Rather crude but. . .Oh, and yes, it will fire up on a 50amp breaker.  Ours used to be on a 60amp and could weld up to the lower side of HIGH range before it would trip after a few minutes of TIGing.
Reply:No it would just mean the input tranformer would be trashed and yeah, there's a bit more going on inside a 300/300 than in an SA200 for sure.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Are many of the 250/250 parts interchangeable with the 300/300? Cause that machine just might then become cannibalized My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Couldn't tell you.  Cross check the parts lists.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749I'm betting the contactor is where the buzz is coming from. Of course, try starting it on the remote side & see if it fires up without the noise. If the contactor is struggling to close, it will cause the breaker to trip. You said the fan turns freely. If it hangs up, that can cause a 50 amp breaker to trip. It will be a 115 VAC contactor coil & fan, most likely. The older 300"s were anyways.See if you can turn the machine on with the remote toggle switch set to the ON position. This will keep the contactor open until you close the remote circuit with either the foot control, or the toggle switch. You can unhook the fan motor for a little less resistance too, at least for test purposes. Take the contactor out & check the contacts for them being "welded" together like Duane said. Before going nuts with technical troubleshooting, look at all the obvious things. Contactor points frying is a biggie. The coil could possibly be bad if the contact points are clean with little pitting, sooting or excessive wear.Those toggle switches on the face go bad too, so if you can't get it to switch between local & remote, put a meter on it & check it out for continuity. Check that contactor tho. I bet the problem lies there. It's a good place to start.
Reply:Good point on the REMOTE switch Steve.  Didn't think about that.I think he should just bring 'em on down to me an let me take them of his hands.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Cross breeding.......  I'll shut up now!!Im pretty sure that the contactor is to blame. I switched the machine to inert gas mode (TIG) and it will start up and the fan is working and the machine is quiet. If I switch it to stick mode the contactor makes contact and the machine throws the breaker. Please tell me Im getting close  Everything seems to work fine in tig mode. I still dont have a tig torch to test it though. I have to go to welsco tomorrow and get everything to try it out. The contacts on the contactor looked a little rusty so I shined them up with a brass brush a little and wiped them off with a rag and now they look smooth.My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:The reason it's not tripping the breaker in TIG mode is the contactor doesn't close until activated by the remote control switch.  Jumper pins D and E of the 6-pin REMOTE plug on the panel with it in TIG mode and see if the breaker trips.  I predict it will.If it does check the output studs for damaged isolators and shorting to the welder chassis.  If those are OK then you're back to having to trace it out one step at a time from the contactor on to find the dead short.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:What would it mean if it didnt throw the breaker?My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Great post Steve and thanks for picking up where I left off.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Today I disconnected the main transformer from the contactor and It threw the breaker when turned on to stick mode. The points in it were pitted and looked burnt. I cleaned them with a file and put it back together with the same results only now when it contacts it sticks and you have to pull it apart. Im looking at the wiring and how can the contactor connect common directly to L1 and not throw the breaker? We have 220v two lines 110 two lines common, is this single voltage or dual voltage or does it depend how you hook it up? thanks for all the help.My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:My contactor looks exactly like that except there are leads going on each of the four posts on top. Im going to go and take some pics of it right now. One wire goes to the transformer one is common on is L1 and the other is L2Last edited by bigblue; 07-23-2009 at 09:05 PM.My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:The 300/300 contactor connects input power to the primary side of the transformer.  If the breaker is tripping with the transformer primary disconnected from the contactor go back and double, triple check your input power wiring against the manual wiring diagram.  Sounds like you're sending a hot leg to ground through the contactor.  Check your plug and receptical wiring too.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Heres a pic of the contactor and the wiring on the back. Ive got the wiring diagram for the welder and its wired up how it shows for dual voltage. White is common, Red is L2, black is L1, and green is ground. Please tell me if Ive got this thing wired horribly wrong http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/DSCI0209.jpghttp://i858.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/DSCI0210.jpgMy vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Heres a pic of the welder itself. http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/DSCI0211.jpgThe ones you posted pics of are much older than this model.My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Take the white wire OFF THE JUMPER LINK & connect it to the ground. It shouldn't be attached to the jumper. That is the problem. It's a three wire system, two hots & a ground (neutral). No 4th wire is needed! All the "common" referrence is to tell you, is that the jumper will always connect to that particular terminal, the other end to low med or hi voltage input power.I bet you a wooden nickel you do that & no more short.Nothing ever usually gets connected to a jumper, there's your short!Hopefully, nothing got fried. You are probably OK,  just redress those contacts & put some dilectric or white lithium grease lightly on them. Looks like you were getting excessive arcing in the case.
Reply:You're too fast Steve!  Either that or I spent too much time reading other posts.blue - there is no neutral in 230 circuits, or 460 and so on.  Only 115.  As Steve pointed out, the machine requires only 3 conductors - 2 hots and the green safety ground (not to be confused with a current carrying neutral of a 115 circuit).Make sure the black and red are seperate 115 hots from your panel/outlet and not off the same leg.  To confirm, you should have 230 between the black and red if it's wired properly in the panel, receptical and plug.Last edited by duaneb55; 07-23-2009 at 10:40 PM.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:GREAT SUCCESS! The welder powers up and can be flipped to stick and the contactor pulls up and its a low hum, I tried to stick weld with it but it wont burn an 1/8" 7018 unless its set to max and the current control is set to max. Im still pretty psyched that it turns on and at least strikes an arc!  Is there anything I should check first as to why its got such low output? thanksMy vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749As soon as I seen the jumper link with a wire on it....OOPS!
Reply:Originally Posted by bigblueGREAT SUCCESS! The welder powers up and can be flipped to stick and the contactor pulls up and its a low hum, I tried to stick weld with it but it wont burn an 1/8" 7018 unless its set to max and the current control is set to max. Im still pretty psyched that it turns on and at least strikes an arc!  Is there anything I should check first as to why its got such low output? thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55That's great news.  I'm curious, did you confirm 230 volts across L1 and L2?
Reply:The machine is a 208/230/460 machine. I tried to stick weld with the machine again and it will only put out a spark unless set to max on the range selector, then it burns an 1/8" rod like 150 or more amps. It does the same no matter where the current control is set at. It burns the same whether its at 0 or at 10  I also found a small component on the tig control board that is burnt or broke. Will the machine not stick weld if the board is bad? Is it still possible to buy new boards for this tig welder or should I look into getting it rebuilt?Last edited by bigblue; 07-24-2009 at 08:06 PM.My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:I think you're trying to get ahead of yourself bigblue.  It sounds like you're 'pokin' an hopin' so reel yourself on back into a systematic diagnosis of this critter.  I don't mean to be coarse but there's a lot of checks that Steve laid out for you that you should be looking at (or at least haven't confirmed doing so) that could be to blame and you haven't indicated having 230v across L1 and L2 yet either.Have you run down thru the troubleshooting chart in the manual on these symtoms?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55I think you're trying to get ahead of yourself bigblue.  It sounds like you're 'pokin' an hopin' so reel yourself on back into a systematic diagnosis of this critter.  I don't mean to be coarse but there's a lot of checks that Steve laid out for you that you should be looking at (or at least haven't confirmed doing so) that could be to blame and you haven't indicated having 230v across L1 and L2 yet either.Have you run down thru the troubleshooting chart in the manual on these symtoms?
Reply:Understood.A couple other voltages to check for indicators is the Auxiliary outlet voltage and OCV at the output posts.  I can't remember if the 300/300 lists the OCV on the data tag or not and the welding voltage rating in the manual is different but if I had to guess I would put it at mid to high 70's.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Understood.A couple other voltages to check for indicators is the Auxiliary outlet voltage and OCV at the output posts.  I can't remember if the 300/300 lists the OCV on the data tag or not and the welding voltage rating in the manual is different but if I had to guess I would put it at mid to high 70's.
Reply:Just good 'ol diodes Steve.  Here's the schematic Pages from IM353.pdf from the manual http://content.lincolnelectric.com//...r/im/IM353.pdfThere is an output control PC board as well but no SCRs.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by bigblueI plugged a flood light into the auxiliary outlet on the welder and it turned on nice and bright. I dont know if this is a good sign or bad?
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55It's a sign the primary voltage (L1 & L2) is good.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749That's a relief!!I have no idea what the board on that machine controls, except output. Like I said before, I'm NO service tech. If someone wants to start crap over that (again) don't bother.. The last guy I got into it with got two weeks "vacation" for his belligerent mouth. I would say, check all the obvious stuff before calling the board out as bad. It may have a part in it, it may be superficial.I don't know Lincoln well & I'll freely admit it. I know what I primarily sell & most of it is Miller.  Still, the basics are the same, just a matter of finding out why there is no output. We got the input power problem solved, so we're getting somewhere. It's always difficult to fix something that's not in front of you & you have no idea of many determining factors involved.You got 115 at the outlet. Good. Caps? Check 'em too. I would try & cover everything else before jumping to the board. I have no clue what function it serves & it may be hard to trace a problem on it down.. Give Lincoln a call, or Larry (weldersales) & see if he's familiar with the problem. He has a wealth of experience, a good guy for quick answers. I never hesitate to call someone if I don't know the answer to a problem. Someone who knows that machine a lot better than me is going to be able to nail it down because they have seen it before & know the cause. The older Miller machines I have worked on have no boards & my solid state/PC board troubleshooting skills aren't near what a real service tech's are going to be.I'll take a look at that manual tomorrow. Check all the diodes in that rectifier first, work out from there.
Reply:Larry BurrossApplied Equipment, Inc.Dallas, Tx214-630-9353MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!