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HiI have got a tig welder and have been practicing a fair bit using YouTube vids and forums for help but I'm can't find the info to help with this problem. It's a penetration issue I've adjusted settings/travel sped etc but it just not right. Here's a pic to show what the problem is (other than not being very good)Any suggestions would be appreciated.CheersDanLast edited by DanDare; 07-11-2014 at 10:04 AM.
Reply:More heat and travel faster. You have to get in and get out before the metal becomes too saturated with heat.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Are you sure you have your polarity correct? I have seen this happen and the result is little penetration, and melted tungsten.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Hi thanks for the attention I've got the machine on ac and using 70amps but using pedal to backing off. It's 2mm tread plate. I'm gonna give it another go with more amps this time
Reply:Had another go 100 amps is better shows through the other side, I've got to pick up the speed as it was a bit too much in places. Out of gas now.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanDareHad another go 100 amps is better shows through the other side, I've got to pick up the speed as it was a bit too much in places. Out of gas now.
Reply:Thanks that's excellent example I've not seen that one of his vid. Where I think I went wrong was a friend said I was using too many amps when I first started as I was getting too much show through too wide a bead so I back it off and the problem was not enough speed. CheersDan
Reply:Now you've got it More amps, make a puddle that penetrates, motor out Make sure you are practicing your wire feeding with the other hand - really easy to end up feeding the entire rod before stopping.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Good luck, Dan, and keep practicing. You will hit that "Aha!" moment but it takes a while.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:You can also cram the rod in faster and deeper to chill the weld. Just make sure you move along.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I got some more gas and been at it some more this is at 110amps with 1.6mm rod -Is travel speed why I'm not getting even show through? I think I'm not running enough gas, it's 12lpm up from 10lpm but I am not getting even frosting around the weld. I think I will go back to the 2mm rod as I didn't hadn't read the chill the weld tip before I sat down. Thanks for all the encouragement and tips I'm watching all the videos and in them it all looks very calm but when I do it it's all freaking manic, wiggling, jabbing then the inevitable - start the grinder up!! lolCheers Dan
Reply:Originally Posted by DanDareIs travel speed why I'm not getting even show through? I think I'm not running enough gas, it's 12lpm up from 10lpm but I am not getting even frosting around the weld. I think I will go back to the 2mm rod as I didn't hadn't read the chill the weld tip before I sat down. Cheers Dan
Reply:Black Pepper flakes = insufficient protection from atmosphere/insufficent cleaning action, which can be traced to several culprits: cup size, torch angle, CFH, ambient conditions, AC balance, etc 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Keep in mind that when you weld diamond plate type metal, the thickness of the metal changes all along you weld bead. Evertime you hit a ridge, the metal is thicker. So penetration always looks wierd on that type of plate, at least for me. Your issue looks like dirty metal, not enough gas or too much time in EN. What machine are you using.What type tungsten.Do you have AC balance control.Where are you located.What size cup.Gas lens or not.??????Edit: Oscar beat me too it by a second.
Reply:Morning, So could be too much gas (not a bad thing in regards to refills) I will turn it down today and try that. The black flakes is prob a mixture of what your saying and me dipping. What machine are you using. - r tech 250What type tungsten. - White tip 2.4mmDo you have AC balance control. - Yes - it was set on 200hzWhere are you located. - LondonWhat size cup. - Cup 6Gas lens or not. - no lensI got a load of offcuts of the plate free so thought I'd use it but I did think the thickness changing wouldn't be helping. What's 'time in EN' mean? Today I'm going to turn the balance down, turn the gas down, power up, speed up, bench grinder on!!Stupid question time - After a dip (tungsten) do I clean the deposits off whilst re sharpening or cut and resharpen? And if the tungsten blackened does that matter? And am I contaminating my grinder wheel getting the ally off the tungsten?Will get some pics of today's attempts and post them later. CheersDanLast edited by DanDare; 07-12-2014 at 03:43 AM.
Reply:200 is AC frequency. How many times the polarity changes from electrode negative (EN) and electrode positive (EP) in one second. Balance is percentage of time spent in EN or EP. EP is the cleaning action. EN is the welding action. You want more EP if the material is dirty, but more EP degrades the tungsten because more heat is put to it. If your machine has frequency control, it has balance control.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255200 is AC frequency. How many times the polarity changes from electrode negative (EN) and electrode positive (EP) in one second. Balance is percentage of time spent in EN or EP. EP is the cleaning action. EN is the welding action. You want more EP if the material is dirty, but more EP degrades the tungsten because more heat is put to it. If your machine has frequency control, it has balance control.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanDareSorry I didn't know the term, I had it set 50% iirc Update - today I turned gas down and used a bit more power and it was a lot better, I didn't get a chance to do much but what I did do had a nice show on the other side. So the gas must have been chilling the weld too much?
Reply:No you are not contaminated the wheel with alum. And if your tungsten is black, it is still clean, just heat stained. I don't reckon with the cross contamination theory.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:From what I know of aluminum its all about procedure. First, it has to be clean . I recomend a good pickling agent. Its fast and works well. Then , heat that booger up. Aluminum is very touchy unless you get it preheated and when you do preheat use oxy-acet to do it and let it soot it up when you are near the finish , it will weld better that way. It also insulates the metal and will keep it hot longer. Next, grab you some pure tungsten (green stripe), or trimix (white stripe) with a flatened point to put in your rig. You definitely need a high frequency box and an AC machine. Then just fire up. When you get close with that hi freq it will fire up for you. Don't try walking the, cup at first unless you are fast at it because if you hit a spot the is a little warm it could want to fall in if you go too slow just ease along when your puddle starts to sink in just dobb a little metal in it and move ahead, watch, when it starts to sink in , dobb a little, move ahead. If you feel like its getting hot too quick for you too keep up just turn it down five and go at it again. Hope this helps ! !
Reply:Originally Posted by Wens LensFrom what I know of aluminum its all about procedure. First, it has to be clean . I recomend a good pickling agent. Its fast and works well. Then , heat that booger up. Aluminum is very touchy unless you get it preheated and when you do preheat use oxy-acet to do it and let it soot it up when you are near the finish , it will weld better that way. It also insulates the metal and will keep it hot longer. Next, grab you some pure tungsten (green stripe), or trimix (white stripe) with a flatened point to put in your rig. You definitely need a high frequency box and an AC machine. Then just fire up. When you get close with that hi freq it will fire up for you. Don't try walking the, cup at first unless you are fast at it because if you hit a spot the is a little warm it could want to fall in if you go too slow just ease along when your puddle starts to sink in just dobb a little metal in it and move ahead, watch, when it starts to sink in , dobb a little, move ahead. If you feel like its getting hot too quick for you too keep up just turn it down five and go at it again. Hope this helps ! !
Reply:Originally Posted by Wens LensFrom what I know of aluminum its all about procedure. First, it has to be clean . I recomend a good pickling agent. Its fast and works well. Then , heat that booger up. Aluminum is very touchy unless you get it preheated and when you do preheat use oxy-acet to do it and let it soot it up when you are near the finish , it will weld better that way. It also insulates the metal and will keep it hot longer. Next, grab you some pure tungsten (green stripe), or trimix (white stripe) with a flatened point to put in your rig. You definitely need a high frequency box and an AC machine. Then just fire up. When you get close with that hi freq it will fire up for you. Don't try walking the, cup at first unless you are fast at it because if you hit a spot the is a little warm it could want to fall in if you go too slow just ease along when your puddle starts to sink in just dobb a little metal in it and move ahead, watch, when it starts to sink in , dobb a little, move ahead. If you feel like its getting hot too quick for you too keep up just turn it down five and go at it again. Hope this helps ! !
Reply:Dave,You did way better than me because after reading that post I was left pretty much speechless. It's like your quote from Shaw was made with this post in mind.
Reply:DanDare, my view of your original post and question is that the weld prep is inadequately understood and therefore not performed correctly.If the two pieces are just butted, gapped or closed, then the size of the weld has to be somewhat disproportionally large compared to the material cross section. That implies, in my experience that the weld has to be done some what on the edge. By this on the edge term I mean that the weld's huge size in relationship to the parent metal requires you to keep the entire weld zone too hot for realistic control. You have to on the brink of dropping through the entire weld zone to make the butt weld carry both sides of the square edges of the parent metal, and the large molten weld volume to melt them both.If the two parent metal edges are beveled, then the mass of parent metal to heat up to fusion temp is much lower so the overall weld size can be reduced to a more controllable 1x to 1.25x the parent metal edge mass. What is shown is a 3x to 4x parent metal mass and therefore the entire region has to be kept 'over hot' in my view of this type of weld.By reducing the edge of the parent metal to a beveled edge, a very much small amount of weld volume has to be controlled. Part of the control is the rate at which the weld chills due to the conduction of heat of fusion into the adjacent parent metal.So, if the welds shown were performed on beveled edges, as I would consider normal practice, then the rate of penetration/slump/sag/droop of the weld would be much easier to obtain, and control.I'm not addressing any of the remarks intended to reply directly to the welds shown in the joints shown, I'm suggesting that more control of all aspects of the welds shown and higher quality would result from what I'd describe as a better joint design.I think this is somewhat like pipe welding? I don't see pipe welders trying to butt two full thickness edges and make a full penetration, highly uniform weld? Instead the edges are thinned to make each weld more controllable with respect to bead size and overall heat introduced.my 2 cents.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK
Reply:Originally Posted by Kevin MorinDanDare, my view of your original post and question is that the weld prep is inadequately understood and therefore not performed correctly.If the two pieces are just butted, gapped or closed, then the size of the weld has to be somewhat disproportionally large compared to the material cross section. That implies, in my experience that the weld has to be done some what on the edge. By this on the edge term I mean that the weld's huge size in relationship to the parent metal requires you to keep the entire weld zone too hot for realistic control. You have to on the brink of dropping through the entire weld zone to make the butt weld carry both sides of the square edges of the parent metal, and the large molten weld volume to melt them both.If the two parent metal edges are beveled, then the mass of parent metal to heat up to fusion temp is much lower so the overall weld size can be reduced to a more controllable 1x to 1.25x the parent metal edge mass. What is shown is a 3x to 4x parent metal mass and therefore the entire region has to be kept 'over hot' in my view of this type of weld.By reducing the edge of the parent metal to a beveled edge, a very much small amount of weld volume has to be controlled. Part of the control is the rate at which the weld chills due to the conduction of heat of fusion into the adjacent parent metal.So, if the welds shown were performed on beveled edges, as I would consider normal practice, then the rate of penetration/slump/sag/droop of the weld would be much easier to obtain, and control.I'm not addressing any of the remarks intended to reply directly to the welds shown in the joints shown, I'm suggesting that more control of all aspects of the welds shown and higher quality would result from what I'd describe as a better joint design.I think this is somewhat like pipe welding? I don't see pipe welders trying to butt two full thickness edges and make a full penetration, highly uniform weld? Instead the edges are thinned to make each weld more controllable with respect to bead size and overall heat introduced.my 2 cents.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AKI didn't stay at the bar too long. He he he. I have terrible insomnia and spend much of my nights wondering how I am going to go back to sleep or what the true value of the dollar is today or how many fleas a banny hen can eat in a day and so on .
Reply:shovelon, In a nut shell. Less to heat.cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK
Reply:Thanks for the detailed reply Kevin Morin better prep is coming as the welding is improving The above welding was just on practise offcuts I had lying around, I realise I should have cleaned and prep'd better but when it's bin fodder it's hard to worry about prep when technique is at the forefront. But as they say poop in poop out. Here is a pic of my progress. I've got to work on my stop/start as it just gets lumpy.I also think I'm overheating the item, how do you gauge when to let item cool? CheersDanLast edited by DanDare; 07-20-2014 at 07:41 AM.
Reply:dand; nice edge weld. were you using pulse?i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:No, just the pedal.
Reply:Dan, you're welcome for any help I could post. but...... I'd like to offer a small correction to your understanding about the weld's relationship to prep.Would you please look up/search some of the Z'guyz welds? (zt-Fab-bionic robo-welding machine , the zapian welding unit, and zankster the human tubing joiner: they are among WeldingWeb's human robots. ) These guys constantly plan and deliver high quality, uniform, clean and jewelry quality welds. Do you notice their fits and prep are, without exception- about perfect?? Do you think there isn't a relationship between the trade craft and practices of the most proficient welders and their results?So, if the really best hands on this site are paying as much attention to the prep, fit and joint design.... wouldn't you as a learning welder think there was some reason that was their practice?I'd like to suggest you rethink the idea of one concept without the other? I get the idea from your post you may be thinking "First I'll get good at welding, THEN, after that I'll work on my fits and weld prep" I'd like to suggest that you work on them together so your improving joint fit, shape design and uniformity of weld zones might allow you to put down better and better welds.My take is that is the real pro's are giving and have been posting consistently for years (and years and years) their work is not separated into welds and prep, its a craft taken as a whole. I'm not trying to find fault with your progress which seems good from your posts, I'm reacting to the post where you seem to be separating the weld into 'parts' as though the parts didn't make the whole. That's what I get from their posts. I'd like to suggest you reread some of those posts and see if you don't agree- follow what works for the best, it can't be poor practice in my view. It's getting them results, how could it fail for me or you?Cheers,Kevin Morin
Reply:Hi Kevin,I completely understand your post ie if the fit up and prep is up to standard the welding would be of a higher standard. I didn't mean prep would get better with welding more I will work on it as my welding coordination improve as I see I have to get that repetitive motion down learning to feed the rod, keep arc length etc to get the welds wether the material is ultra clean of not. When I started I spent time cleaning the plate before starting, line up, start arc, get puddle dip tungsten. Start again. Now I can run a bead without dipping it's now worth cleaning etc as I can get to the end of run without dipping so I have the action now it's the surroundings. Might not be the correct way but I can't run a grinder etc at 10pm where I am practicing even the welder on high freq is pushing it.
Reply:Having much thought over the replies and much thinking the obvious has shone through. I'm not getting full penetration because of the cleaning I haven't been doing. The oxide layer that sits on the top AND UNDERNEATH melts at a much higher temp than the actual alloy so if I haven't cleaned it off on the back i am only ever going to get that baggy show through that I have been getting as it's not going to get hot enough to melt through and fuse properly. I must apologise for my grammar in previous posts. Much of it comes from rambling in my head and then it spills out.Thanks for the help I shall update with a pic later. CheersDan
Reply:So I've been cleaning and practising but still not how I want it here's some pics Ive been trying different settings on the balance and freq and they behave as expected but not to the point of 'okay that works I've got to practice like that'I've tried bevelling the edges and I still don't get it. The only places I do get it is if I pile the rod in and I don't see people do that in any of the videos. This is a very good video from welding tips and tricks that shows what I'm trying to achieve. I'm missing something and it's frustrating me lol.I suppose if I had to weld stuff without show through I'd be on to a winner!!!CheersDan
Reply:Dan - the only thing I see missing is more time - it looks to me like you are on the right track A lot of my early practice looked just like that - Keep after it man edit: I do see that many beads are just surface beads, add more amps.Do a bead and post the pic, include your settings - someone will be able to help.Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 07-25-2014 at 11:33 AM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Cheers MinnesotaDave Just seen your edit - if I cut through them (which I'm going to do in a min) and post pics, I'm using 160amps on the pedal but backing off (I will ask wife to check next time what it backs off to) Still I'm all for calling forth more lightning!! I had to get the mig out just to reassure myself I can weld lolCheersDanLast edited by DanDare; 07-25-2014 at 11:39 AM.
Reply:I just checked I'm welding at about 65amps. Here's the pics of the welds from the back and front cut through -CheersDan
Reply:If I'm right in assuming the material is 1/8" - 65 amps is way too low. You must have to really wait on the puddle between dips? Slow speed is also indicated by the excessive cleaning band shown on both sides of the bead.I weld that in the 150 amps range. Your material should puddle (and start welding) in 3 seconds or less - general guide to see if you are in the right range.Check out this miller welding calculator app: http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...calculator.phpIf I'm wrong on the material thickness, let me know.Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 07-25-2014 at 02:43 PM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Fun Ain't it?...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanDareI had to get the mig out just to reassure myself I can weld lolCheersDan
Reply:Your welds are looking much better. Clean and more consistent. Only thing I can add is try to weld with more authority. Step hard on that pedal and when the puddle is melted, check it by cramming the rod in and plumping the bead, then move on, repeat and so forth. I see guys gently form a puddle, and then slowly introduce the rod, and by then everything starts to go sour. The metal is overheating, the puddle is becoming unstable, the rod end is drooping, and the arc is rectifying. Alum wants to wick away your heat so don't give a chance to do so. Fast melt, and cram the rod for good penetration and stack of dimes look. Good work so far, and keep going. Oh, 5356 works better for filler. This tip won't cost you anything.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterFun Ain't it?...zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by DanDareLol yeah but if it was easy everybody would be good at it I've tried all sorts, I've poked the rod hard enough to see it come out the other side, I've added rod from the back of the puddle to give it longer to pool, I've stirred it, added it to one side of the pool to let it run into the middle. I've got to get more gas in morning so will do some more runs to see if I can get consistent penetration I'll be happy. Still it's all good practice as you said it's getting better, the only problem is when I close my eyes I can see weld pools forming and filler rod being added!!Cheers for the 5356 tip I'll look into it. CheersDan
Reply:Turned the ac balance up to 65 and I can see progress. In all my adjustments had no consistency so the results I gathered from 'knob swinging' as I'm gonna call it were wrong!! Anyway pics -
Reply:I'm not a pro, so I can only say what's worked for me. I addition to more heat, try to move your torch hand at a consistent speed and not pause to dip. Doesn't Jody at WTT.com make it look so easy? True sign of a pro, he does it so effortlessly that anyone thinks they can pickup a torch and do it too.When you get enough seat time it kinda just "happens". When you get good on flat plate and think your a TIG welder, get some pipe to humble yourself.
Reply:Try going as fast and hot as humanly possible, until you start ignoring the individual parts of the process. After a few hundred feet of welding you'll just be looking at the puddle width, automatically dabbing and travelling.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by rathinfotechHi,Aluminium has good weld ability and magnetic properties. To know More about aluminum welding please visit
Reply:Originally Posted by HT2-4956Magnetic properties??? I spent 10 minutes or so checking out the web site and didn't really see any thing that would help some one "know more" about aluminum welding. In fact I've got to say that nothing about that web page inspired any confidence in me that these people really have much technical understanding at all when it comes to aluminum in general.
Reply:Brazin +130+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:20:57