Welder Trailer

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Fabricating a welding trailer.  Here's plans for the build.  3500lb straight axle, but derated with 3000lb springs and 13"-14" tires (haven't bought the tires yet).  5 on 4.5" bolt pattern.  Nice folks at AxleInc.com in Elkhart, Indiana were very helpful in getting the design right.  32" spring centers and 49" overall axle length.  After some head scratching, I'm mounting some shocks on this axle as well.  I want to see if it'll ride smoother with shocks rather than just springs alone.Frame is being fabricated from material on hand  2" .125" wall square tube.  6lb/ft 6"x2" C-Channel.I'll mount the welder, boxes, and any other hardware and then find the center of gravity on the trailer.  From there I'll locate the axle so that I get enough tongue weight.Overall length on the trailer will be 136".  Long enough for the welder, some gas bottles, and 1 or 2 small knaack boxes I've had for a few year.  If I mount both boxes, I'll sling the gas bottles from the sides of the frame.  If 1 box mounted crosswise, then I can mount the bottles between the welder and the box.I may just use a length of square tube for the rear 'bumper', rather than that long piece of channel.  The more I think about it the more I want to have less weight back there and I might have a better use for that piece of channel... Attached ImagesBenson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:I've got some ideas for cable and hose wraps, but that stuff may just go in a locked box for security.  I'm also thinking about a way of transporting a flat work surface that I can setup on sawhorses; but that could go in my truck instead.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:For those of you wondering why I'm taking the machine out of the back of my truck, I have two short words.  Gas Mileage.  Past experience driving without it in the truck tells me the welder costs me 3mpg; which at 3.25/gallon costs me about $900 per year in gas.  I've got all the steel for the trailer and the axles, suspension, tires and wheels will cost me less than $400 new.I can use the space in the bed too.  It being winter I want to get the machine out of the weather.  I've got some sheet metal scratches and dents on it that need to be repaired before the rust goes any further.  I'm not very busy in the field from November - April in this area.  Just not that much outside welding work going on in my business.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:I would locate the axle at the normal location and adjust welder position, etc., to match it.  You may re-purpose the trailer one day and find your custom axle is mis-located.
Reply:Noted.  I'll check the standard vs where I want it with this load out and go from there. Originally Posted by copeI would locate the axle at the normal location and adjust welder position, etc., to match it.  You may re-purpose the trailer one day and find your custom axle is mis-located.
Reply:Originally Posted by copeI would locate the axle at the normal location and adjust welder position, etc., to match it.  You may re-purpose the trailer one day and find your custom axle is mis-located.
Reply:I don't know what welder you are going with, but you may consider utilizing the mounting points for the weldder as crossmembers. then you can use them as shock absorber moutning locations. also, I would consider leaving a little extra space behind the welder for a small work area. not a lot, not even enough to really work, but a spot to set a coffee cup or your hood and gloves so the y arent on the welder. the other plus is that much more space between a possible collision and your welder.Teach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:If you haven't bought your axle yet you might consider a torflex axle. It will give the better ride you want and likely be cheaper than a regular axle plus shocks. Also salvage yards are a good source for wheels and tires cheap. You can usually get them for around $20.00 for the combo with usable tires. Ford Ranger/explorer wheels are what I use. I'm also on the side of building it for your purposes now rather than something that may or may not come in the future.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:I know you want to use what you have but I don't think your building it heavy duty enough. All the "stuff" we use weighs a lot and adds up quick. I would use channel for the frame and the 2" for the cross pieces althouh I personally don't like tubing for any thing on a trailer. You may eventually want a material rack over it and heavier duty would be a good thing.
Reply:I used to run a service trailer with alot of stuff mounted.  I built a foldout table beside my welder which was pinned vertical during transport and fold down when needed.  It had two hinged support arms that folded out for the table to fold onto.  This worked really nice when needed and was out of the way and no lifting required.If additional support would be needed, you could attach two drop down legs to each end of the table when you need to get the big hammer out!
Reply:The welder is the BB350 from my truck.  It'll be mounted to the two sections of 6" channel that bridge the frame.  I had those pieces in the bed of the truck, under the welder, and they're already drilled for mounting bolts.the rear of the trailer will extend 4" - 6" out past the end of the welder.  Just enough room for a cup of coffee.   Originally Posted by teachagmechI don't know what welder you are going with, but you may consider utilizing the mounting points for the weldder as crossmembers. then you can use them as shock absorber moutning locations. also, I would consider leaving a little extra space behind the welder for a small work area. not a lot, not even enough to really work, but a spot to set a coffee cup or your hood and gloves so the y arent on the welder. the other plus is that much more space between a possible collision and your welder.
Reply:I've already ordered  standard axle, but will keep the torflex option in mind for the future.  I'll make some calls about used wheels and tires; I was just going to bite the bullet and buy new ones.  The axle I've bought has studs 5 on 4.5".  Shouldn't be too hard to find something that will fit.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doI've already ordered  standard axle, but will keep the torflex option in mind for the future.  I'll make some calls about used wheels and tires; I was just going to bite the bullet and buy new ones.  The axle I've bought has studs 5 on 4.5".  Shouldn't be too hard to find something that will fit.
Reply:Thanks Bob.  I've thought about this and was going to build a larger tandem axle trailer to have more payload. But, I have a long narrow drive and limited space to maneuver, so the trailer needs to be as small as I can reasonably manage and light enough to muscle around by hand.  I'll never turn my long bed crew cab around with the trailer attached at home.  You'd have to see the driveway to really appreciate it.  I also want to be able to stuff the trailer into my shop for the winter.  I've got some rust repairs to make on the sheet metal already.  Some of the louvers on the radiator end are rusting.  So getting the machine out of the weather and secured out of sight are part of the decision to keep the trailer compact as well.So, While I could add rack and a bunch more stuff to the trailer, I won't because it'll be too heavy for me to manhandle in tight quarters.  Just some storage for small stuff and a means to carry gas bottles.  I might put on a receiver to hold a vise, and I'm toying with the idea of some kind of mast to get some flood lights up high enough to help when working late.  Everything else will go in the truck and I already have a bed rack for carrying long stock.I'll be drilling weep holes in all the tubing and spraying fogging oil into the tubes to limit corrosion.  I might go looking for some  reuseable silicon freeze plugs, or I might just dab some silicon caulk over the openings.  That way if there is any moisture buildup that freezes the silicon will pop out before the tubes bulge or split. Originally Posted by BobI know you want to use what you have but I don't think your building it heavy duty enough. All the "stuff" we use weighs a lot and adds up quick. I would use channel for the frame and the 2" for the cross pieces although I personally don't like tubing for any thing on a trailer. You may eventually want a material rack over it and heavier duty would be a good thing.
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doNoted.  I'll check the standard vs where I want it with this load out and go from there.
Reply:A trailer that small will be mighty difficult to back up behind a cclb. It's a double edged sword.Teach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:DAB, you KNOW this had to come up but.......do you have the skill to weld up such a trailer for use on public roads?Now that that is out of the way it looks like it will be a great build.
Reply:Yet another reason to keep it light enough to roll around by hand.  My plan is to never back up with this trailer if I can avoid it.  I'll pull straight in, unhook the trailer and roll it into the shop by hand.  I might make a trailer dolly to do this hand moving, or maybe I'll put a receiver under the front bumper of the truck.  Then I can unhook, reposition, and push the trailer with the front of the truck to park it.  I've had a couple small trailers with welders on them before; so I know what a hassle it is to back up without jack-knifing. Originally Posted by teachagmechA trailer that small will be mighty difficult to back up behind a cclb. It's a double edged sword.
Reply:You could always make a powered trailer dolly use a cheap winch to drive the wheel ,could be battery or run on A/C for just around the shop and drive way.gxbxc
Reply:So question for you is what are you driving that you gain 3 MPG without your welder?  My F-350 CCLB single wheel 4x4 V-10 with auto I get maybe 1 mpg more without the welder & compressor.  I'll be watching this though as I've got a second portable welder and have thought of throwing together a welding trailer that I can pull with a 1/2 ton.
Reply:2008 Chevy Silverado 2500HD.  Crew Cab Long bed, 4x4.  Vortec 6.0L V8 with automatic trans.  Gets 12-13 MPG with the welder in the bed, 15-16  MPG with the bed empty.  I drive with a light foot on the gas pedal too. Originally Posted by AntiblingSo question for you is what are you driving that you gain 3 MPG without your welder?  My F-350 CCLB single wheel 4x4 V-10 with auto I get maybe 1 mpg more without the welder & compressor.  I'll be watching this though as I've got a second portable welder and have thought of throwing together a welding trailer that I can pull with a 1/2 ton.
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_do2008 Chevy Silverado 2500HD.  Crew Cab Long bed, 4x4.  Vortec 6.0L V8 with automatic trans.  Gets 12-13 MPG with the welder in the bed, 15-16  MPG with the bed empty.  I drive with a light foot on the gas pedal too.
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_do2008 Chevy Silverado 2500HD.  Crew Cab Long bed, 4x4.  Vortec 6.0L V8 with automatic trans.  Gets 12-13 MPG with the welder in the bed, 15-16  MPG with the bed empty.  I drive with a light foot on the gas pedal too.
Reply:I've owned a diesel and for me the financials don't make sense.  Big additional upfront cost and big maintenance items down the road; particularly on older trucks. On a new truck the upfront added expense is $5-$8K; plus the cost of DEF and the associated maintenance issues.  For a used diesel truck, injection pumps, injectors, and turbos are all high cost maintenance items.  Not to mention the cost of oil changes and fuel filters on any diesel.  Plus I find diesels inherently more difficult to work on.  Nope, not convinced that diesel is the right choice today, not for me. I have no issues towing with my truck.  Your mileage may vary.  It's flat here in the Midwest, so towing isn't hard.  If I lived in a Mountain state, perhaps I'd feel differently and a diesel truck would make more sense.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:So I cut most of the material yesterday evening.  Pardon the goofy red corner magnets.  I've had those things in my shop for a few years, collecting grinding dust and filings.  I don't use them for tacking, but they seemed good for keeping things in place on the floor as I checked measurements against my drawing.  You can see how uneven the floor is in the shop.  I've got to do some cleanup and roll my steel table out from the corner.  I'll setup on it and clamp the pieces in place prior to tack welding and then finish welding.I just had to include a shot of the HF band saw.  It's not fancy but it does get the job done.  I'm especially proud of the bungy cord and scrap piece that serves as a "power feed" for the saw.  that scrap is from the first project I ever used the saw for.  It seems to be the perfect weight for the saw to feed through material at a decent pace.  Adding that weight and building a higher stand are the only things I've done to the saw.  It cut reasonably straight out of the box.  It needs some new roller bearings for the blade guide, But that's it.  Probably the best tool money I've spent ever if you weigh the cost against the dollars I've made with it.  I'm not a huge HF fan, but this tool seems to have beat the odds.The piece being cut is one of the angle braces for the trailer tongue.  I wasn't sure the saw would cut an angle that large.  But with some creative clamping and some mild radius grinding on the saw blade guides it works just fine.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding InspectorYou're going "full tilt". Here is what mine looks like and weighs 2442 lbs as shown in the photos without consumables, stock, nor torch tanks loaded: This was built using Studebaker pickup front hubs, spindles, rims, and leaf springs, a narrowed I beam for the axle beam, and "allthread" rod to retain the springs to the beam. It sure looks "cheesy" underneath but must be strong as the gent I purchased it from put it together in 1965. I'm probably going to incorporate shocks also as it does bounce a bit at speed. Tows good and stable but is a little heavy in the tongue for my Jeep Cherokee.I'm going to install a rolling wheel onto the original tongue jack so I can roll it around the shop by hand cause it's difficult to back up with.Last edited by Slob; 10-09-2014 at 12:52 PM.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Slob,  that old Hobart must weigh close to  a ton if the total weight on your trailer is 2442lbs.  Either that, or that trailer is stout.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Some comments I received by private mail have me questioning the strength and stiffness of the frame in my design.  This is a low buck build, but I do have enough square tube to double up the frame members.  I could add a length of 2x2 tube to the frame I have now where the suspension mounts. or make the entire perimeter by stacking 2 sections of square tube on top of one another and stitch welding them together.Omar Blodgett's book 'design of weldments' has a good chapter on using X bracing to stiffen and strengthen machine bases.  I could easily add an X brace to the frame between the two sections of C channel that I'm using to mount the welder.Hmmm....I need to think about this some more.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doI've owned a diesel and for me the financials don't make sense.  Big additional upfront cost and big maintenance items down the road; particularly on older trucks. On a new truck the upfront added expense is $5-$8K; plus the cost of DEF and the associated maintenance issues.  For a used diesel truck, injection pumps, injectors, and turbos are all high cost maintenance items.  Not to mention the cost of oil changes and fuel filters on any diesel.  Plus I find diesels inherently more difficult to work on.  Nope, not convinced that diesel is the right choice today, not for me.
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doSlob,  that old Hobart must weigh close to  a ton if the total weight on your trailer is 2442lbs.  Either that, or that trailer is stout.
Reply:Wow, right on both counts.  My BB350 weighs about 1100lbs wet, no were near the 1800 lbs of that Hobart machine; and 5" channel for the trailer frame is heavy duty.  It's lasted 50 years, and you'll likely get another 50 out of it.Slob, the knaack boxes are handy.  I'd build something custom if I didn't already own them   I bought both used for $75 each from F&M Mafco down in Cinncinnati.  They've been handy over the last 5 years.  But since I sold my flatbed Dualie they've sat gathering dust in the shop.  I have two and I painted them with some bedliner I had left over from doing the bed on my current truck.  I'm not sure if I'll use 1 or 2 on the trailer.  I think 1 so I can have room for some gas bottles too.For those wondering, this trailer is more like a temporary winter solution to the question, "how to get the welder out of the truck and yet keep it available to use".  I'm not planning on permanently leaving it here.  I'm usually very slow from November through April, and so it just doesn't make sense to pay the fuel cost to haul the welder around all winter long.  Having it on a trailer will enable me to use it when the rare field job pops up this winter.  When it gets busy next year I'll move it back to the bed of the truck.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:You'll be happy you kept those boxes as the new ones are really a bit more flimsy than the originals. I'd assume they still make the jobsite storage boxes and they were expensive in the 70's so can only imagine nowadays. What you paid is a damned fair price no matter the size. I always ran "Rawson-Koenig" underbody boxes on my trucks as the quality was up there also. I would say make a good effort to incorporate a set of tanks onto the trailer to remain permanent install. When I was building up and hard facing at the mines on weekends I'd set my Hobart G-213 in the bed with a tractor or shop crane, then manhandle my Q, and WQ Linde cylinders up there also. Seldom did I need a torch set but that occasional time was a real timesaver and handy. I'm sure your mobile repair business requires cutting in the field so it would be very convenient to have them handy for ease of access when needed.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:So I was thinking about this question of whether or not the design I have is robust enough for the weight I want to move.  It occurs to me that I can strengthen and stiffen the design by building a top frame and making the trailer frame tubular box.  The top structure won't carry any weight, just serve to stiffen and strengthen the whole frame.  I'll make some quick sketches of what I'm considering later today and post them here so everyone can see what I'm trying to describe.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:so here are the two alternate designs that i'm considering.  neither adds much weigh or requires me to buy more material.  I think I have enough tube sitting in the shop to do either.The first option uses less material.  So that's the way I'm leaning.  The second looks like you could use it to haul more stuff.  But I don't want to overload the suspension or make the trailer impossible to move by hand. Attached ImagesBenson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:The first plans with 12" sides would work just fine.
Reply:Citing you plan to install stock racks above as referenced in your second drawing, that would be my choice. You can also bridge the lower from rail with a piece of 3/8ths- 5/8ths strap the width of the rail using rectangular or square tube for standoffs. That adds very little weight but increases the torsional stress absorbtion potential significantly.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:One last option.  A short box frame.  Still good clearance to access welder.  Probably stiffer than the tall box option.  Less material.  Less welding than the double frame version....Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:I was drawing while you were posting Cope.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:I like the third drawing best, the first drawing second. The middle option would take some creative building to realise the extra strength. I assume your going to add uprights along the length. Also with 1/8" material you rist tearing so in the high stress areas you will want to add some gussets or plating to spread the stress over a larger area of the tubing.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:I think this is where I might end up.  A truss frame on the long sides, and some small, but important changes like adding some doubler plates where the channels join the frame and where the susupension mounts attach to the frame.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:I like it Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI like it
Reply:Nice trailer I'm gonna have to build one sooner or later for my four wheeler or mower. It sucks having to haul them in my 16ft trailer when I could do as you are minus the welder. However I'm curious what blueprint software/building your using I've been looking for something decent and easy to learn as all my hand drawings aren't very purty  thanks and show us how it all turns out.
Reply:I like it a lot now too. I'm glad you mentioned a little extra for the stress points too, that is my main complaint with 1/8" material for trailers. That thin material can tear out even with good welds.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:I use a free program called sketchup.  Google created it, but it was bought from them by a company named Trimble.  Anyway just do a search for sketchup and you can find the free download.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:I Downloaded that not long after I responded. I chanced upon it while searching some forums and it has the ability for 3d also. Thanks for letting me know just gotta figure it out now.