Tig root critique and advice.

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Hello I'm a 29 yr old in Jacksonville Florida looking to expand my knowledge and certifications I am currently 3g and 4g certified with aspirations to become certified in tig root and hot pass 7018 fill and cap and stainless tig in 6g. I"m looking to get out of the field im currently in to make a jump straight to welding pipe. I'm a material handler by trade doing just about anything inside a warehouse  racks, conveyors, cranes, dock equipment etc. I have what I would consider a good job at 22/hour with truck and phone paid for as well as other small perks. But I want to jump into other things Im very mechanically inclined and a fast learner. I'm wanting to get into pipe welding/fab making the same if not more money I can mig tig stick aluminum stainless steel with quality outcomes I used to have a dynasty 200dx doing cast aluminum repairs and small stainless jobs even modifying aluminum boats so I'm no stranger to welding but at the same time I know pipe welding to the specs is a different story. So I started small I've got a cst 280 and some 3/8 plate beveled at 37 degrees that I'm starting out with since everything I will be doing will more than likely be scratch start tig. I"m just looking for some pointers and what to expect. Also what type of certs will go a long way as I am paying for them myself. Id like to add I've never been to welding school and thought long and hard about it but I don't know if it would pay off seeing as I've heard bad things about Tulsa welding school but am open to ideas what are other good schools out there I need to keep my current job and possibly go at night. What would be the best way to go maybe start out at a union? Also I used a keyhole dip technique for pics i provided what type of techniques are standard I know there lay wire and back feed thanks to Jody at welding tips and tricks. I'm just looking for some advice for what I need to do to get things rolling and how my roots are looking. Also what would be the proper way to remove the silicon along the toes of the weld. I normally weave 7018 after a single stringer there are a couple of pics showing a weave in a plate and then some stringers and some actual clips I welded on for a mezzanine per the drawing those are about 5/8-3/4 wide. I'm trying to get good at stringers. Maybe someone can post some pics of what I should be trying to achieve, the tig root has a few tie ins as well. Let me know what you think and what I should do to improve the welder is pictured so you can see the amperage. The photos are turned for some reason but everything is vertical up. Attached Images
Reply:More pics Attached Images
Reply:You will have to pass a 6-G test. I suggest you buy a length of 4” sch 80 pipe, and a length of 6” sch 80 pipe. Bevel 37 1/2 degrees, and start welding. With a 6-G Tig test you have to be able to weld with both hands.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPYou will have to pass a 6-G test. I suggest you buy a length of 4” sch 80 pipe, and a length of 6” sch 80 pipe. Bevel 37 1/2 degrees, and start welding. With a 6-G Tig test you have to be able to weld with both hands.
Reply:Thanks for the replies sorry I wasn't clear in the first post I know I need to pass the 6g and welding with both hands on tig isn't as hard as stick because I usually prop on something. If anyone has some pics of what I'm referring to please share so I can emulate them possibly with a coin for size reference and please tell me what you think about the pics. Thank you for the replies
Reply:I bought 2 pieces of 20' 6x3/8 flat bar for 150 bucks how much would pipe be?
Reply:Judging by that last pic, you're too cold. Weld hotter and you won't get those wagon tracks. Not sure if you're dipping on purpose, or it just turned out that way, but you don't really want to or need to dip a root on carbon steel.It looks OK for starters, just need practice time from what I can see. Looks better than some of our apprentices' welds.
Reply:Yes I was dipping I know the lay wire would look better as I can do that no problem but if there's an uneven gap I want to be prepared. I was welding around 95 amps 1/8" gap 3/32 rod er70s2 I'll try hotter but it seem I get flat roots when I do that and I'm trying to achieve some protrusion on the inside as to prevent suck back any tips or fitup advice is greatly appreciated.
Reply:Everybody that replies is gonna tell you something different, gap and wire and land, etc. Turn it up hotter and feed more wire.
Reply:10 4 ive realized that feeding enough is one of the keys I will do that.
Reply:Welp, I’m just a hobbyist welder! For the root I use the lay wire technique. I like a 3/32” gap, about 1/64” land. I use 1/8” filler, anywhere from 90 to 100-amps. For the hot pass I use 3/32” filler, and never go up more than 10-amps. This prevents suck back. I like a very sharp tungsten, with a # 7 cup with a bevel ground on the cup. That makes it easier to walk the cup. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Yep that one is a good if the fit up is right I just want to be prepared for the worse.
Reply:DeletedLast edited by leeroy86; 12-31-2015 at 12:10 PM.Reason: Deleted
Reply:Cep I don't believe you're a hobbyist would you mind posting some pics with something as a side reference for the root protrusion and width plz possibly include 7018 as well thank you for the fit up specs.
Reply:Originally Posted by leeroy86Cep I don't believe you're a hobbyist
Reply:What kind of hobbyist are you? lol looks good what kind of protrusion do you look for on the inside of the pipe? What about the silicon islands on the face of a tig weld you wouldn't normally weld over them would you so how would you remove them.
Reply:By the way that pipe weld did you walk the cup or free hand the cap that looks awesome how wide and tall is the bead?
Reply:Originally Posted by leeroy86What kind of hobbyist are you? lol looks good what kind of protrusion do you look for on the inside of the pipe? What about the silicon islands on the face of a tig weld you wouldn't normally weld over them would you so how would you remove them.
Reply:I still don't believe you're a hobbyist those welds and tools you list aren't what a hobbyist would have lol. How wide and tall is that cover pass weld?Last edited by leeroy86; 12-31-2015 at 05:11 PM.Reason: Mispelled
Reply:Originally Posted by leeroy86How wide and tall is that cover pass weld?
Reply:Originally Posted by leeroy86I still don't believe you're a hobbyist those welds and tools you list aren't what a hobbyist would have lol. How wide and tall is that cover pass weld?
Reply:i run a 5/32" gap with no landing and 1/8" filler.  usually around 85 amps.  i run the hot pass at the same amperage as the root to prevent suck back.i agree your root looks cold.AWS CWI xxxx21711968 SA200  Originally Posted by WelderMike  I hate being bipolar, It's awesome.
Reply:Originally Posted by leeroy86I bought 2 pieces of 20' 6x3/8 flat bar for 150 bucks how much would pipe be?
Reply:So you're doing a keyhole dip then do you keep the tungsten pointing at the opening or do you wash the filler up on the bevels and share any pics of you have any plz.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawIt's a bit of an inside joke,  but he's retired from the industry and as he doesn't get paid to weld anymore,  he is a hobbyist   .  Sent from mobile.  Not responsible for TyposOriginally Posted by leeroy86I would love to pick his brain in some things
Reply:Lmao yea right
Reply:Your root doesn't look terrible. I've seen a lot worse on actual test coupons. Not by people that passed, though. It'll smooth out with practice and a little more heat. On the cap, weave your stringers slightly. A bare wiggle, really. That stringer cap is really not bad. It's not perfectly even, but I can't see any real defects. QCs don't want to see wide weaves like you did on the fill pass.Plate doesn't prepare you for welding pipe. It's apples and unicorns as far as hand, wire, torch, body position and heat transfer. Practice 6G for tests and 5G because it's the most common real world position.Diameter of the pipe makes a huge difference as well. Smaller pipe is more difficult. Harder to walk the cup, have to move your body faster to reposition, heat builds up faster and stays longer for a given wall thickness. Many tests are 2-7/8" OD with varying wall thickness, so get some of that to practice. 6" is probably easier to practice on for a beginner.I prefer to walk the cup, but I often freehand the root on pipe 3" or smaller. You have to be able to anyway because you don't always have room to walk the cup. Sometimes when fitup is less than ideal, I'll back off on heat and freehand larger pipe if I feel like I need more control. I guess that really applies only to particularly wide gaps. Like if it's wide enough you need a guardrail to keep people from falling in. I backfeed the wire on the root. This allows me to better control the reinforcement inside. A heavier root doesn't suck back when I jump 0-30-40-50 amps on the HOT  pass. I generally like a 9/64-3/16 gap and use 1/8 wire for the root. 1/8 tungsten. #8 or #10 jumbo gas lens. Amperage might be anywhere from 60-120 depending on pipe size, wall thickness, welding machine, how many hundreds of feet of cable, whether I feel like climbing down from where I'm at to change it after finishing another weld, time of day, tides, etc. I also like to wire wheel between passes as it helps subsequent passes tie in and avoid cold lap. A wire whirligig can also blend in light undercut on the cap.  I only use 3/32 wire for bad (tight) fits. I might also use 5/32 wire if there's a big gap. It happens. Also 5 wire with a lot of heat for the hot and fill passes.
Reply:When we were tig'n carbon pipe in Houston, fit-ups were 5/32, sharp bevel (no landing), 1/8 70-s2 for the root.  On my Lincoln, I was 3rd gear and 30 for the root. Rest the wire on a tack opposite side of where you are running the bead and feed the wire through the pipe. Wash the heat from side to side, remember to keep the wire fed and moving forward as you weld.  Keep in mind with carbon steel you will have a silicon dot develop as you weld.  Make sure you are at least remove this spec before you start another pass.  I found, that 70-s2 was great for a bead pass (it could hold heat really well)- but it had a lot more silicon than 70-s6.  I switched to 70-s6 for hot, fill and cap to finish the weld.  Here's a hint, with roll outs especially, for me I like to turn my heat up and "feed" the wire while free handing the tig torch for fill passes. Heat for this depends on pipe size and thickness but generally 3rd and 80-100.  You can carry a bunch of metal this way but like I said watch for that silicon. If you see it disappear, stop and grind it out.  I generally used 3/32 wire for this because I always felt like I could control heat better. When you add wire you cool the weld down. Turn your heat down for capping- 3rd and 60-80. Walk the cup to make it look good.
Reply:@ leeroy86 - welding wizard Fieldres explain/demonstrate "shooting the gap" for TIG root work on pipe.The Theory/ApproachThe DemonstrationLast edited by ManoKai; 01-01-2016 at 02:19 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by lincweldWhen we were tig'n carbon pipe in Houston, fit-ups were 5/32, sharp bevel (no landing), 1/8 70-s2 for the root.  On my Lincoln, I was 3rd gear and 30 for the root. Rest the wire on a tack opposite side of where you are running the bead and feed the wire through the pipe. Wash the heat from side to side, remember to keep the wire fed and moving forward as you weld.  Keep in mind with carbon steel you will have a silicon dot develop as you weld.  Make sure you are at least remove this spec before you start another pass.  I found, that 70-s2 was great for a bead pass (it could hold heat really well)- but it had a lot more silicon than 70-s6.  I switched to 70-s6 for hot, fill and cap to finish the weld.  Here's a hint, with roll outs especially, for me I like to turn my heat up and "feed" the wire while free handing the tig torch for fill passes. Heat for this depends on pipe size and thickness but generally 3rd and 80-100.  You can carry a bunch of metal this way but like I said watch for that silicon. If you see it disappear, stop and grind it out.  I generally used 3/32 wire for this because I always felt like I could control heat better. When you add wire you cool the weld down. Turn your heat down for capping- 3rd and 60-80. Walk the cup to make it look good.
Reply:Thanks for the replies gotta soak it all in and put it to work. What do you guys think about myself not having any formal welding school training? Will it hurt when I go to apply for jobs?
Reply:Two more things I just remembered.  First thing is concerning the bead pass, every job has it's specs but usually if the wall is broken down and at least flush, you should be good on x-ray. Second thing, when you're closing up your bead, obviously you won't be able to feed the wire through the pipe. If there's a time to "dip" the wire this would be the time.  As you tie-in the weld, hang out a little for a few extra seconds so your bead can drop-in, so its consistent all the way around. Btw make sure you are feathering your starts and stops all the way around- at least that a good practice to have.  Experienced guys get away with less grinding but I never chanced it. Good luck.
Reply:Originally Posted by leeroy86What do you guys think about myself not having any formal welding school training? Will it hurt when I go to apply for jobs?
Reply:Originally Posted by leeroy86Thanks for the replies gotta soak it all in and put it to work. What do you guys think about myself not having any formal welding school training? Will it hurt when I go to apply for jobs?
Reply:Just a question for those who commonly root by feeding through the gap.  Was this the first technique you learned for rooting?  We were first taught to weld the near side (1/8th filler in a snug 1/8th gap and force buildup).   Those who felt interested later went onto learning different techniques.  Think a newby would have an awkward time controlling arc length.  Plus that 3/16 gap on top takes a special technique to keep from having too much buildup.Last edited by OldSparks; 01-01-2016 at 05:31 PM.
Reply:At school, we only fed thru the gap for overhead. Mostly it was just feeding thru the near side, and then either shuffling or fingering the torch down the gap.Currently working as a Paralegal, but still interested in hobby welding.Miller Bobcat 225ntOne- Character Fractions: ¼ ½ ¾ ⅛ ⅜ ⅝ ⅞
Reply:Originally Posted by teh603At school, we only fed thru the gap for overhead. Mostly it was just feeding thru the near side, and then either shuffling or fingering the torch down the gap.
Reply:Yeah... on that issue, pipe wasn't in my certificate. I was on an extremely tight budget (and still am, since the December hiring slump isn't quite over yet and the few jobs that I've seen have all demanded multiple years of job experience), so I went for the certificate I could afford instead of the one that paid the most. I'll be coming back to pipe once I've got a bit more money in the bank. Much as I wish it would, financial aid won't pay the bills.Currently working as a Paralegal, but still interested in hobby welding.Miller Bobcat 225ntOne- Character Fractions: ¼ ½ ¾ ⅛ ⅜ ⅝ ⅞
Reply:Keep in mind the magnetism that is created while tig welding.  A 5/32 gap and 1/8 filler rod works better than it may sound.  As the rod melts, it will be pulled easily into the bevel with a slight "side to side" motion. Yes, I would agree that it is more important to feed the wire through the pipe when at 6 o'clock.  As you get closer to the top, gravity will help some, helping to "sink" the root.  That's why as you close the weld up, you can dip the wire.  Remember when you hot pass your bead will push in.  IMO its easier to push a bead in with tig than stick.  Take a fine grit sandpaper and clean you filler rod too.  Also, nip the burnt ends off the filler to get clean starts.
Reply:Originally Posted by leeroy86So you're doing a keyhole dip then do you keep the tungsten pointing at the opening or do you wash the filler up on the bevels and share any pics of you have any plz.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPYou will have to pass a 6-G test. I suggest you buy a length of 4” sch 80 pipe, and a length of 6” sch 80 pipe. Bevel 37 1/2 degrees, and start welding. With a 6-G Tig test you have to be able to weld with both hands.
Reply:Originally Posted by lincweldKeep in mind the magnetism that is created while tig welding.  A 5/32 gap and 1/8 filler rod works better than it may sound.  As the rod melts, it will be pulled easily into the bevel with a slight "side to side" motion. Yes, I would agree that it is more important to feed the wire through the pipe when at 6 o'clock.  As you get closer to the top, gravity will help some, helping to "sink" the root.  That's why as you close the weld up, you can dip the wire.  Remember when you hot pass your bead will push in.  IMO its easier to push a bead in with tig than stick.  Take a fine grit sandpaper and clean you filler rod too.  Also, nip the burnt ends off the filler to get clean starts.