Door chart on my Lincoln SP-135 Plus seems off by quite a bit

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It's hard to question Lincoln, certainly not at my skill level, but here are 2 cross sections done on an 1/8" right angle bed frame scrap. One at the recommended flux core setting (G3) for 1/8" steel and one where I cranked it way up (J8). .030 wire Drag angle and stickout were the same as far as I could tell.G3 is their recommendation for every thickness from 12 ga to 5/16", just run more beads says the chart. My test shows better penetration with a more aggressive setting. Of course up that high it has a harsher sound but unless that indicates I'm tearing up my machine I don't care as long as penetration is good.Is there some reason I might want to drop back to G3 instead of using J8 on 1/8" stock? I know door charts are meant to be tweaked a little but this is a bit more than tweaking. Attached Images
Reply:Try pushing vs dragging with solid wire. When output is limited with small migs, all the steel piling up can sap some of your heat. With drag you also have to worry more about cold lap where the puddle simply rolls over on top of the cold plate on the sides if it builds up too much.As far as output, I'd go with the heavier setting myself. There's a lot of things that I look at when determining if my settings are right, like sound and quantity of spatter as well as how the bead is laying down that are hard to explain without showing someone..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I always run as hot as you feel comfortable controlling... on mild steel at least. that eliminates a lot of the questions you are asking, and its a lot easier to tell/know if you are running too hot (burn through, puddle fallout, etc)....keep in mind I don't weld much under 3/16...Sent from my MB865 using TapatalkSynchrowave 250Lincoln WeldPack 180HDPropane torchhandyman's encylopedia collection of all types of toolsJack of all trades, ace of none...
Reply:The door chart is for .035 fluxcore.You are using .030Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by JD1It's hard to question Lincoln, certainly not at my skill level, but here are 2 cross sections done on an 1/8" right angle bed frame scrap. One at the recommended flux core setting (G3) for 1/8" steel and one where I cranked it way up (J8). .030 wire Drag angle and stickout were the same as far as I could tell.G3 is their recommendation for every thickness from 12 ga to 5/16", just run more beads says the chart. My test shows better penetration with a more aggressive setting. Of course up that high it has a harsher sound but unless that indicates I'm tearing up my machine I don't care as long as penetration is good.Is there some reason I might want to drop back to G3 instead of using J8 on 1/8" stock? I know door charts are meant to be tweaked a little but this is a bit more than tweaking.
Reply:I have a SP125 plus and I'm always a bit higher in both dial but still close to the chart.Your flat weld might work good in J8 instead of G3 on a flat position.....surely another story in vertical or with a any other real weld (butt, lap, filet, etc), on which you would surely have a lot of undercut. or burn through.Not to mention: Past the max setting, there not much difference in heat output but wire speed do change : so if you preheat, that change quite a bit edit: wire maker react different too.   Lincoln NR-211 in ,035 worked better then my previous "don't remember the maker" 0.030 wire.Last edited by maxpat82; 12-29-2015 at 01:39 PM.
Reply:Door charts are just a guide for getting started with a machine. Once you get a feel for the machine the door chart will lose its value.Machines just run differently. You can have 2 machines exactly the same manufactured the same day next to each other and they will run differently. It just takes a little time to get a feel for the equipment you are working with.
Reply:Sorry for not replying sooner, I didn't get any more email notifications after the first 2 and figured the thread had died.Broccoli1 - very good point. I didn't notice that. I'll get some .035 and see what difference there is.Maxpat82 - Flat vs joining welds might show a difference although I doubt that 110v machine is going to burn through 1/8" stock.  I'll see what a cross section of joining welds look like with .035 wire.
Reply:If using one of the E71T-G or -GS spec wires, those generally have a pretty wide range where an acceptable arc and weld bead can be had as long as the voltage and wire feed speed are in tune with each other. In short, user defined as per your own wishes and goals. As far as a bead on a flat surface is concerned anywhere from 'adequate depth of fusion' to burn through to the other side works. Actual penetration matters most when/where there is some type of joint involved. That's why it's called 'joint penetration' as in PJP or CJP or whatever. Keep in mind that other things such as beveling and gapping play a role also. The charts will get you and acceptable arc/bead going, the rest you sort of have to work out.Last edited by Sandy; 01-01-2016 at 07:12 PM."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:I had a weld fail back in 1987, since then I burn Hotttt (voltage) and makeup the difference in travel speed.
Reply:I just finished running some .035 wire (Innershield NR-211-MP) per broccoli1's comment. No difference from the first set of .030 beads. The G3 set was flat with a little penetration and the J set penetrated quite a bit deeper, actually a little deeper than the .030 wire. With .035 wire I couldn't run as much wire feed speed, I had to dial it back to around 5 instead of 8. The G3 set had a very nice bacon sound though, nicer than the J set. So I guess very contrary to the door chart, if I want penetration on 1/8" or above I need to use J (the highest setting) and dial in the WFS to match. I sent an email with the pics to Lincoln but they chose not to answer this one even though they've answered every other question I've sent.I'm puzzled, I assume Lincoln's door chart would reflect optimum penetration settings. I do get the idea that the charts are only a starting point and you tweak from there but IMO, going from G to J is way more than a tweak. But I don't have any where near the experience guys on this board have which is why I'm trying to get advice on why the huge discrepancy.
Reply:as long as you can weld the thickness of metal you intend to weld, eg if it says up to 12mm and you can still weld as thin as say 1.2mm then dont worry about it, get used to your machine and learn its sweet spots for different materials and sizes. Machines can vary and even preparation and techniqie can change the quality and penetration of the weld.