Tig rod life?

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I have had a couple pounds of tig rod for a couple years, they have been stored in airtight tubes.Now when I get out the welder the bead turns to crap, like the part isn't clean and lots of undesirable inclusion in the weld.In the past I have seen where rod can go bad after a while (this is at least 8 years old) but think its has been properly stored.How long should a rod last for?  How about argon, could it take a crap too?Thanks in advance. s.r.
Reply:Are you talking steel or aluminum TIG rods? 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Exactly what type of filler rod?
Reply:Steel
Reply:Does the rod say 70s2? It's probably not the rod if it's cleaned with acetone
Reply:unless it is rusted to hell and back, it won't "spoil".  Even slight surface rust can be dealt with for non-critical applications by running it through some scotchbrite and cleaning it with acetone. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:70s2, looks new, what could change if the welder has been sitting not used for a couple months?
Reply:Originally Posted by riceburner70s2, looks new, what could change if the welder has been sitting not used for a couple months?
Reply:Gas log?
Reply:Originally Posted by riceburnerI have had a couple pounds of tig rod for a couple years, they have been stored in airtight tubes.Now when I get out the welder the bead turns to crap, like the part isn't clean and lots of undesirable inclusion in the weld.In the past I have seen where rod can go bad after a while (this is at least 8 years old) but think its has been properly stored.How long should a rod last for?  How about argon, could it take a crap too?Thanks in advance. s.r.
Reply:[steel filler rod is usually in 2 main types AND usually is copper coated to slow rust formation]The copper coating on tig rods is NOT to stop rusting!  A copper powder is used as a lube when the wire is extruded.Last edited by mechanic416; 12-30-2015 at 08:20 AM.www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:Originally Posted by mechanic416[steel filler rod is usually in 2 main types AND usually is copper coated to slow rust formation]The copper coating on tig rods is NOT to stop rusting!  A copper powder is used as a lube when the wire is extruded.
Reply:I'm welding 4130 on a motorcycle steering neck, done it many many times with the the same tools and process, hasn't been an issue in the past. If there is an oxygen leak into the torch I can't find it, everything is tight, weld starts out good then after about an inch is when it bubbles.Last edited by riceburner; 12-30-2015 at 12:55 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by riceburnerI'm welding 4130 on a motorcycle steering neck, done it many many times with the the same tools and process, hasn't been an issue in the past. If there is an oxygen leak into the torch I can't find it, everything is tight, weld starts out good then after about an inch is when it bubbles.
Reply:Originally Posted by mechanic416The copper coating on tig rods is NOT to stop rusting!  A copper powder is used as a lube when the wire is extruded.
Reply:The copper coating also helps if you start by scratching the tungsten instead of touching it to the base metal.Currently working as a Paralegal, but still interested in hobby welding.Miller Bobcat 225ntOne- Character Fractions: ¼ ½ ¾ ⅛ ⅜ ⅝ ⅞
Reply:Originally Posted by riceburner70s2, looks new, what could change if the welder has been sitting not used for a couple months?
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinStale electrons?Magic Smoke® loses its potency?Argon turns into laughing gas?
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanReally?!?  So what do they lube my 308L tig rod with?  As for copper plating being a lubricant, it's more than just that.  Read this sales pitch from a manufacturer:http://www.heicowiregroup.com/files/...etin_11-07.pdfThey claim that their own copper coated wires are extruded and THEN plated, while the competition plates and then extrudes (there is no mention of your imaginary copper powder lube).  They also claim that their proprietary lubricant on non-plated wire has less friction than seen with conventional plated wire.My understanding is that most TIG wire we buy is actually produced in quantity as MIG wire, and then straightened cut and marked as TIG wire.  As MIG wire, the copper plating's improved conductivity will also improve the electrical connection between the wire and the tip.  That's an advantage not used by TIG (except for maybe TIP-TIG).Here's what Lincoln has to say about the subject:http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...ed-detail.aspx"The wire is usually mild steel, typically copper colored because it is electroplated with a thin layer of copper to protect it from rusting, improve electrical conductivity, increase contact tip life and generally improve arc performance."I see nothing there about lubrication.
Reply:Just try and run a no filler bead and see what happens and post the pics
Reply:6" long. Not 1"
Reply:Thanks for all the input, I checked out the system, no leaks, everything is tight clean from the machine to the torch. I got some material out and test some test welds with 4130 to 4130 to mild steel, clean steel, dirty steel on and on - all is good. So I made some new bearing races put them in the tube - after 10 minutes of cleaning the parts before welding. I'm feeling pretty good about it, stike up the machine a couple tacks all is good, I run the first half inch no problem, then pop bang the puddle goes - this is immediately following (an hour) testing with no issues.  Since it already messed up my part I tried a couple things, no rod - better, turned the heat way up for the thickness of the material, better but still popping and leaving air bubbles in the weld.I am almost starting to think the lubrication I'm using during the machining process isn't getting cleaned off the material - this time I was using tap-matic lube in the yellow can. That is the only thing different.Got to make new parts again, I won't use that lube next time and hope it makes a difference. Any input on that?
Reply:Sounds like the gas is getting cut off or your hitting a dirty spot where you forgot to clean . Let's see what the contaminated weld looks like. Don't be shy on posting pics
Reply:That is why I don't think I have been able to clean the  cutting fluid off the parts.
Reply:Originally Posted by riceburnerThanks for all the input, I checked out the system, no leaks, everything is tight clean from the machine to the torch. I got some material out and test some test welds with 4130 to 4130 to mild steel, clean steel, dirty steel on and on - all is good. So I made some new bearing races put them in the tube - after 10 minutes of cleaning the parts before welding. I'm feeling pretty good about it, stike up the machine a couple tacks all is good, I run the first half inch no problem, then pop bang the puddle goes - this is immediately following (an hour) testing with no issues.  Since it already messed up my part I tried a couple things, no rod - better, turned the heat way up for the thickness of the material, better but still popping and leaving air bubbles in the weld.I am almost starting to think the lubrication I'm using during the machining process isn't getting cleaned off the material - this time I was using tap-matic lube in the yellow can. That is the only thing different.Got to make new parts again, I won't use that lube next time and hope it makes a difference. Any input on that?I have been using this piece of steel for sometime, never an issue. I should also note that this is replacement bearing cup on one end of the 4130 tubing, the original end and the one I cut off for the new one (all from the same stock) so what is happening here is kind of odd.First time I cut off the original bearing race that was welded on the tube, that is when I first had the bubbling issue, second I made a new bearing race re-machined the tube so all the surfaces were fresh machine and clean. Unless the material I'm using for the race has gone bad over the last couple of years...Last edited by riceburner; 01-01-2016 at 10:35 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by riceburnerI have been using this piece of steel for sometime, never an issue. I should also note that this is replacement bearing cup on one end of the 4130 tubing, the original end and the one I cut off for the new one (all from the same stock) so what is happening here is kind of odd.First time I cut off the original bearing race that was welded on the tube, that is when I first had the bubbling issue, second I made a new bearing race re-machined the tube so all the surfaces were fresh machine and clean. Unless the material I'm using for the race has gone bad over the last couple of years...
Reply:Originally Posted by riceburnerI have been using this piece of steel for sometime, never an issue. I should also note that this is replacement bearing cup on one end of the 4130 tubing, the original end and the one I cut off for the new one (all from the same stock) so what is happening here is kind of odd.First time I cut off the original bearing race that was welded on the tube, that is when I first had the bubbling issue, second I made a new bearing race re-machined the tube so all the surfaces were fresh machine and clean. Unless the material I'm using for the race has gone bad over the last couple of years...
Reply:Ya I find gas is not so consistant  when the tank hits 100 psi or less. I just crank up the gas tho too like 30 cfh. It would help if you post pics but if it some Area 51 tig welding work we understand,or the other way around, not the prettyist that's ok too.
Reply:I seem to recall an older thread with a similar problem where the cause turned out to be a small crack in the argon hose near the base of the torch handle or a poor connection where the hose attaches to the torch. The result was that if the person moved the torch in a certain way or held it at a certain angle the gas problem would rear its ugly head. A long shot but it may be worth carefully reexamining the argon hose near the torch end.Contamination of the metal is probably more likely, and maybe you could spend some "quality time" welding coupons of clean steel that have never had any cutting fluid applied to them to see if you can make the problem reappear.Lastly I think we can eliminate bad gas as the issue since it only appears once in a while. If it were bad gas the porosity would be happening constantly.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Going to attack the problem again tomorrow
Reply:Try a piece of mig wire and compare results.  70S numbers are used on both fillers and aren't propitiatory to the process. V
Reply:I went to ims and bought some new dom for the bearing cups, (4 feet just for an inch and a half) soon as I get off my dead *** I'll go see what happens.
Reply:After wrecking a couple more parts I got my van back from the body shop (there is no such thing as a good body shop), I went room Sims and picked up a couple new bottles of argon....that is what it was.  Must have bee some crap in the bottle, now all is good again.Thanks for every bodies help.