Bidding some handicap rails and I am not sure????

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Hey guys, I am currently bidding a handicap rail, the drawings are calling for 1 1/2" pipe schd 40. Most of it is down a ramp, I am asking that when the ramp is poured that they leave some sonotubes where the post will be. My question is would it be easier just to build onsite and paint or build in the shop and install there.  Also what would yall charge per ft for a post and 2 runners hand rail.syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Fabricator 211iBobcat 250 EFI12VS Extreme24x40 shopSOME OF THE STUFF I HAVE BUILTwww.facebook.com/gowildfabhttp://www.gowildfabrication.com/
Reply:I"d find a copy of the Americans with disabilities act , or whatever else applies and read it all.There will be very specific things that will have to be correct.
Reply:Even small sonatubes are massive. I'd suggest PVC pipe instead. If you go with heavy Sch 40 DWV PVC, precut the pipe and tape it back together so it's easy to remove. If you go with something like that Sch 20 4" pipe they use for drainage, it's thin enough on some of the stuff to cut it with a razor knife or cheap chisel to remove it later. The pipe with the black interior that's a bit soft cuts easier than the white stuff that is more brittle..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by 12345678910I"d find a copy of the Americans with disabilities act , or whatever else applies and read it all.There will be very specific things that will have to be correct.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWEven small sonatubes are massive. I'd suggest PVC pipe instead. If you go with heavy Sch 40 DWV PVC, precut the pipe and tape it back together so it's easy to remove. If you go with something like that Sch 20 4" pipe they use for drainage, it's thin enough on some of the stuff to cut it with a razor knife or cheap chisel to remove it later. The pipe with the black interior that's a bit soft cuts easier than the white stuff that is more brittle.
Reply:why bother with sonotubes or pvc?  Build your rail, then core drill the concrete where ever your legs land on the ramp.AWS CWI xxxx21711968 SA200  Originally Posted by WelderMike  I hate being bipolar, It's awesome.
Reply:Every time we've requested a contractor install tubes pre-pour in concrete they never end up matching the rails I've built. Concrete guys don't give a sh!t if your job is made more difficult. Take your measurements and build the rails in your shop. Take the rails to the site and set them in place and mark around the base of the posts with soapstone. Core drill your holes and set the rails plumb and level with stakes and fill the holes.
Reply:Originally Posted by AFFENDEwhy bother with sonotubes or pvc?  Build your rail, then core drill the concrete where ever your legs land on the ramp.
Reply:Originally Posted by Sharon NeedlesEvery time we've requested a contractor install tubes pre-pour in concrete they never end up matching the rails I've built. Concrete guys don't give a sh!t if your job is made more difficult. Take your measurements and build the rails in your shop. Take the rails to the site and set them in place and mark around the base of the posts with soapstone. Core drill your holes and set the rails plumb and level with stakes and fill the holes.
Reply:If it is not a huge amount, then just fab onsite. They are easy enough to build. Glass can be a pain if you need to grind nearby. A Dynafile type belt sander makes short work of the weld joints. Embed plates are another good option. Concrete guys are more familiar with them and they are easy to set. Wait until after they set them to build the rail if you are doing it in the shop, as they will be marginally random. They usually mark the form boards and stick them in, just not real careful about measurements.  Core drilling takes more time than embeds. I bought a core drill for one job and have enjoyed having it. If you are going to rent one, I have found it more cost effective to sub it out, YMMV.
Reply:If you go with plates embedded, then there could be issues with inconsistent height/ concrete sags.  Your post will need to compensate for the difference.  I hate taking a rail onsite and trimming leg.  If you do the coring, then you can build the rails prior to ramp completion.  If they are going to set stubs or plates, then I would wait on fabrication.  If using a core rig, then will can create a ramp to plumb the bit.  If hand drilling the use a level on the bit, before drilling.  The fresh concrete should not be difficult to drill. My preference is to build in my shOp...  lessen the obstacles between completing the job and getting paid.   However building pipe rail onsite might be easier, if you have never built a pipe rail on pitch.just had a flashback to my first tube rail job...  definitely influenced my aversion to trimming(trim by addition of tubing) and sagging concrete.Oh, bid well.  They take as long as or longer to build as straight baluster rails.Last edited by tapwelder; 12-09-2015 at 12:34 AM.
Reply:"My preference is to build in my ship."Man, you Tennessee guys are hard core, building on a ship can't be easy trying to get stuff leveled up!
Reply:lol, fixed it.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelder The fresh concrete should not be difficult to drill.
Reply:Perhaps, there was misuse of term.  I reference fresh, being new construction concrete, yet ready to drill vs. hard old highly cured stuff. My drill cores tends to progress much slower in old cured concrete than in newer concrete.  I drill dry.Last edited by tapwelder; 12-09-2015 at 01:59 AM.
Reply:I have built rails both ways, field and shop. The main factor to consider is how complicated the angles are. Nice straight runs with nice 90 degree corners = shop. Slightly curved, funky angles, bad concrete guy = field. Sleeves cast in place sounds like field to me, the concrete guys never seem to put them all in a straight line or plumb. I prefer core drilling to sleeves. I only do sleeves when the plans require sleeves. The slope on a wheelchair ramp generally is not a problem for the core drill.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Price per ft varies widely, I'll say this though, if you're bidding before the concrete is poured, put some extra on there because you're going to have to make tweaks, and test fit everything on site before you paint/powdercoat, etc.
Reply:if its only a handicap handrail that will not be removed for what ever reason just use plate and hilti bolts, quick and secure, you do not have to rely on other trades to correctly do their part.
Reply:Originally Posted by nrhmarine7Have not core drilled on a slope, was not sure how much more difficult that would be.
Reply:$20.00/ft. Is about market price right now for 2 line rail 1 1/2" pipe......good luck.......
Reply:If it's handicap then you will also need a flats strap down by the bottom. Core drill and build on site is what I do most. It seems most jobs are not straight lines. It goes really fast.
Reply:If I have to do plates. then I will create a plate with a center hole to fit  the tubing posts.  On a handicap ramp, the plate will account for the pitch and you will not need to pitch the posts nor have a large gap to fill. I am trying to wrap my head around 20 buck per foot. Is that fabrication only?  not finish or installation?Know the code and finish before you determine the volume of work, then  bid.  Also, if you are a sub, know the general will be delighted the lower your numbers because he will be pocketing the balance. Good luck
Reply:Core drilling is the best way to go,never rely on Mason's to do your work trust me been there done that, I would make sure of the required specs on handicap railings in your area,I would charge 25 to 30 per foot for my area for single bar rail,and here's a tip on core drilling, make yourself a drill guide out of a piece of plywood, make it big enough to get both of your feet on it and drill a hole through the plywood then after you mark your posts with soapstone just line up the hole in the plywood with your soapstone mark stand on the plywood and drill your hole this will prevent the bit from walking on you and marking up the new concrete,a handicap ramp is not going to be very steep to begin with so you won't be drilling at a steep anlgle when you are removing the cores I use a screwdriver and pry towards the core otherwise you may chip the concrete I use a product called pour roc it works well and sets up real fast
Reply:Originally Posted by BIGCREWCore drilling is the best way to go,never rely on Mason's to do your work trust me been there done that, I would make sure of the required specs on handicap railings in your area,I would charge 25 to 30 per foot for my area for single bar rail,and here's a tip on core drilling, make yourself a drill guide out of a piece of plywood, make it big enough to get both of your feet on it and drill a hole through the plywood then after you mark your posts with soapstone just line up the hole in the plywood with your soapstone mark stand on the plywood and drill your hole this will prevent the bit from walking on you and marking up the new concrete,a handicap ramp is not going to be very steep to begin with so you won't be drilling at a steep anlgle when you are removing the cores I use a screwdriver and pry towards the core otherwise you may chip the concrete I use a product called pour roc it works well and sets up real fast
Reply:Originally Posted by BobIf it's handicap then you will also need a flats strap down by the bottom. Core drill and build on site is what I do most. It seems most jobs are not straight lines. It goes really fast.Originally Posted by Sharon NeedlesOur core drill has leveling feet and a bubble level on it. Simply level to the ramp slope and start drilling. Much easier and faster than embed plates, as you don't need to pack a welder onsite, provided you prefab the rails in the shop.
Reply:Originally Posted by toofast_28Price per ft varies widely, I'll say this though, if you're bidding before the concrete is poured, put some extra on there because you're going to have to make tweaks, and test fit everything on site before you paint/powdercoat, etc.
Reply:Looking at doing my first rail job in the next two weeks and this seems like a pretty informative thread. Can anyone give some advice on welding 1 1/4 inch schedule 40 pipe for a handrail being fabed in the field? Stick weld it with 6010? 7018?  The whole thing will be built on site and will include welding the elbows on to wrap the single runner around. Living in pa, we need to make sure its 100 percent sealed after grinding smooth so im just trying to figure out if i should haul my mig welder or stick it.Dynasty 200DX   (2014)Millermatic 211 (2015)Optrel 864   (2014)Smith Medium duty MBA 30510 (Xmas 2014)Tennsmith 16ga 4ft finger brake (2015)Trailblazer 325 EFI and excel Thermal dynamics Cutmaster 82Miller maxtron 450