6010 help...

admin

Hello everyone, I am currently doing my apprenticeship training in school and need some help to make my 6010 welds more "pretty" our teacher I'd quite strict and expects tig like welds. I'm currently doing the whip motion, burn crater forward then fill.ive also heard of doing circles? We are doing 1f, 2nd and 3f on 3/8 plate.If you guys can give me some tips as in amperage setting, electrode manipulation that would be awesome
Reply:I like to use a small whip. 1/8 rod 85-95 amps. Don't whip out too far, keep it close.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:That hot? I seemed to get better results with 80 but did seem to have bad fusion at toes.
Reply:practice. just keep burning rods till you find a technique that works for you.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Yeah I was expecting that answer, I'm so used to 7018 rods that I'm always disappointed in my 6010 weld appearance.
Reply:A lot of things will not improve until you have that "Ah Ha!" moment and can start to read the puddle. Until then you are simply doing timing patterns and are not able to see what is happening and react to conditions and control the puddle. I think 6010 is one of those rods that this is very important if you want really nice looking beads. You can get away with out being able to see the puddle in flat and horizontal with rods like 7018 if your angle is right, travel speed is close and your amps are correct, but that doesn't work as well with 6010..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by iongarYeah I was expecting that answer, I'm so used to 7018 rods that I'm always disappointed in my 6010 weld appearance.
Reply:Great vvideo, my welds basically look like his. I just need to work on uniformness.
Reply:Uniformity comes from consistency. Do everything the same, every time. I suggest new students try and eliminate as many variables as they can to start out with. That way you just have to pay attention to doing one thing the same over and over. Eventually a lot of this will become 2nd nature and you will do it instinctively. The only way to get there though is repetitive practice over and over and over and over....Even if you make a mistake, if you keep making the same mistake exactly the same, things will get better eventually. If you constantly try and change things each time, you never develop a pattern and it gets harder to improve..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Hello iongar, unfortunately there are a whole lot of things that can be "tried and attempted" with regard to trying to make E 6010 welds look good. I personally stress use of the pause and whip method as this will work in all positions with little modification. Other methods are not so forgiving when the positions change. With regard to amperage settings: Unfortunately everyone's suggestions for amperage's may or may not work too well due to the fact that the calibration of the machine settings likely isn't consistent for all of the different machines that these folks weld with(Jerry's machine isn't putting out the same amperage as Jeff's even though the numbers on the dial or readout show the same). You will have to look closely at the bead in order to judge whether the heat is enough or not. I generally find that if the bead appears coarse and the toes don't wet in well(it stands up) to the base metal that the amperage needs to go up. If controlling the width or height of the bead is difficult or there is excessive burn-through on the backside of the weld(excluding open-root welds) that you probably need to reduce the amperage a bit. If you are able to control the width of the bead readily and also the height of it by rod angle change in conjunction with travel speed adjustments then you are likely close with your amperage. Rod angle and arc length are a large part of this equation too. If the rod is perpendicular to the plate, as your weld progresses you will generally experience a wider and flatter weld deposit. As you tilt the rod and reduce the angle from perpendicular in the direction of travel of the weld deposit you will generally notice a decrease in the bead width and an increase in the bead height. Pause or dwell times in the puddle will also effect bead width, so as you are experimenting try to initiate only one change at a time and see what the results are.Arc length affects arc voltage in conventional arc welding power sources, as the arc length increases the voltage goes up and heat in the welding puddle increases, as arc length decreases the voltage goes down and the heat in the welding puddle decreases, this is relative to maintaining a consistent amperage output(hence the constant amperage/variable voltage characteristic of most power sources). I say conventional because some of the inverter type machines deal with arc length in a different manner(they will actually boost "heat" to prevent stubbing of the electrode). Another thing that happens with increased/excessive arc length is the tendency to have excessive or increased spatter with regard to laying down a bead. Sometimes you will want to use a long arc, particularly when starting a weld or making a restart of a bead in progress and changing rods. You will experience spatter for a brief moment but the resulting "preheating" will make tying-in the restart much easier and likely less noticeable as in being unable to tell where the rod change occurred. This long-arc approach is an E 6010/E 6011 and other cellulosic type rods exclusive, don't do this with E 7018 rods for instance.So here are a few other considerations for you to ponder, all of the respondents have included important points, consider them all and try them to see what works for you. I would simply stress again to make 1 change at a time so that you will get results that will help to hone your skills. Good luck and best regards, AllanLast edited by aevald; 09-12-2014 at 12:26 AM.aevald
Reply:well iongar, sounds like your getting good info and trying your hardest.     If that's not good enough for that teacher, you can tell him what I had to tell a welding inspector once, " There aint nothing in AWS, that says your welds need to look pretty".    He might pipe down a lil then, at the inspector I had did.
Reply:Hello 123weld, I certainly agree with the need to show temperament and some reserve with regard to weld quality put forth by students. I guess I am one of those welding instructors who will push for the best that a student is capable of. This thinking runs along the lines of whether you wish to be at the bottom of a graduating class or the top and whether a perspective employer gives you a shot or not. My reasoning for pushing for the best that a student is capable of is simple: when they leave their program and go out into the real world to compete for a job as a student with possibly little real world experience, they will likely be competing with others who have a little or a lot of experience. One of their "Aces in the Hole" might be the quality, confidence, consistency, and speed that they can lay down a weld. This, along with a history of good work ethic, good communication skills, a willingness to learn and work with others and maybe a certification, degree, or other educational milestone to show stick-to-i-tiveness (even though it might not be in the welding/fabrication trade) might be the thing that gets their foot in the door. I am not disagreeing with your statements as to what is considered acceptable with regard to code, as "pretty" is not one of the requirements. I am saying however, that students that plan on making their debut in the working world might just stand a little bit better chance of getting hired if they do their best to put forth their best beads when applying for work, especially on that first job. My response here is more for students to understand an instructor's approach than to disagree by any means with you. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:I told the author to say that to his teacher if hes trying his hardest, and if the teacher is still not happy w/ that.    Yes or No ?    Does that sound reasonable to you that his teacher wants his stick welds to look like tig welds ?   Yes or No           Your lengthy run on story, about work ethics and quality and getting a job done or hired somewhere, appears to me that your trying to sway the readers away from what I actually wrote.   You want to talk about communication and real world jobs, try following me around for a week or two, you may be relieved to crawl back to your state paid job, once you catch your breath, you might be able to tell those kids that welding under a truck at night, or hanging off the side of a building, aint quite like holding the stinger w/ two hands sitting on a bench in front of a table.   If you cant answer those two questions w/ a yes or no, try winning back your credibility with some more chatter to point out where I'm showing temperament in my post please.
Reply:I guess I should have known that you would take my reply in that manner. I don't doubt that you are one of those folks that works their tail off and under trying conditions. You might be surprised to know that I have been there done that and still continue to do so. I do have a state job and I also work in the trades on top of that, often to the tune of a second full-time job amount of hours. As to following you around, no, I don't need to, we could likely swap an equal amount of stories regarding trials, tribulations, and other challenges in our working careers. I am not here to have or start an argument, to easy to do that over nothing and over the internet.Does this student need to have "tig" like E6010 welds, NO but he should work his tail off to produce to his maximum potential. It will only benefit him in the long run. If this is what his instructor is trying to instill in him there is nothing wrong with that in my book. He said(the OP) that he is trying his hardest and you stated in some way that maybe his teacher should recognize this and maybe back-off a bit or something of that nature. Without really knowing all of the details of this situation it is very difficult to tell just how hard the student is working and just how hard the instructor is riding him. I believe that you ask for a yes or no response in reference to this sort of scenario, neither of us will actually know that without being there or being a bug on the wall to assess this. I am making an assumption with my next statement: have you ever worked with another person, possibly younger or even older, and known that they have potential, yet for whatever reason, they weren't tapping into it to their fullest? Did you try to help them to become better or drive themselves harder. I bet you have. We're really not so different, you talked to your own experiences in this trade and gave them as an example of what you have done and likely do on a daily basis. If you have helpers or co-workers you likely have expectations of them and let them know if they aren't meeting them, in this way you are "teaching" as well. I on the other hand have the task of being honest with students(they range in ages from 12 to 90+ years old), I tell them of the types of things that you live and I have lived and live, the trick is to bring them to believe that they are capable of doing all of that if they are driven themselves. I, nor anyone else, can't unscrew the top of their heads and pour the information and skill in and automatically have them all set-up. Do I talk like an educator?, YES I certainly do. Does that automatically make me someone who doesn't know what I am talking about?, I don't believe so. I have spent many years in the trades and taught a whole lot of those years. But not all of that teaching came during my job at a community college and I am a student all of the time myself. Many others have taught me as well and likely you and I could teach each other a number of things. So you might want to ease up a bit 123weld, life's short and there is still plenty to share with each other that can be a benefit. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Originally Posted by 123weldI told the author to say that to his teacher if hes trying his hardest, and if the teacher is still not happy w/ that.    Yes or No ?    Does that sound reasonable to you that his teacher wants his stick welds to look like tig welds ?   Yes or No           Your lengthy run on story, about work ethics and quality and getting a job done or hired somewhere, appears to me that your trying to sway the readers away from what I actually wrote.   You want to talk about communication and real world jobs, try following me around for a week or two, you may be relieved to crawl back to your state paid job, once you catch your breath, you might be able to tell those kids that welding under a truck at night, or hanging off the side of a building, aint quite like holding the stinger w/ two hands sitting on a bench in front of a table.   If you cant answer those two questions w/ a yes or no, try winning back your credibility with some more chatter to point out where I'm showing temperament in my post please.
Reply:Originally Posted by aevaldI am making an assumption with my next statement: have you ever worked with another person, possibly younger or even older, and known that they have potential, yet for whatever reason, they weren't tapping into it to their fullest?
Reply:I dont want my teacher to go easier on me, I want to do the best I possibly can. Im already certified on structural steel and have done building construction for about two years now but have never tried for perfectly cosmetic wise 6010 welds, I always left 6010 for root and 70018 for fill, cap and "cosmetic appeal". I can do everything about the 6010 perfect but need nicer ripples.
Reply:I have never run a whole lot of 6010 on the job, It was either wire or 7018. For me I have to really watch the arc length. What machine are you using? My Dynasty 300 just plain sucks with 6010!Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Practice, practice and more practice and I'm willing to bet you will have that aha! Moment as some said earlier. I would suggest running a little colder to begin with, maybe 75-80 and as u get more control over your keyhole bump it up a little
Reply:There is no key hole in a fillet weld.
Reply:Also using Lincoln invertec 350 pro
Reply:Originally Posted by iongarAlso using Lincoln invertec 350 pro
Reply:Haha I'd rather have blue buts its a pretty good machine.
Reply:Seriously doubt a "tig like weld" with 6010 electrodes. there is a web site, Welding Tips and Tricks, that has some really good weld information. Check the site out. 6010 is a great electrode for what it is designed for but tig quality I doubt.Paul GilleyWelding InstructorMountain Empire Community College
Reply:Originally Posted by iongarThere is no key hole in a fillet weld.Where do you run the arc force when running 6010? For open root I like +9.5. For regular welding with 6010 I like +2.0. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:The point is its almost impossible.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPOh those are horrible machines, I wouldn't own one of them!
Reply:I have spent about 3 hours, 5 days a week for two months trying to get a good looking 6010 bead. I have tried ever rod manipulation possible, I have found the small circles work the best to make a ripple looking bead, but the circle needs to go forward, up then back not just around on the metal.  I wish I could explain it better, just make a hop in the front when going back into the puddle.