Cylinder Label Questions

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Hi All,First real post here, an I'm a noob so please excuse me if this is a completely ridiculous line of questioning.Most of my welding experience has been stick or MIG. For the MIG welding, all the tanks I've used have been borrowed from friends, leased from local shops, etc. I recently purchased a TIG welder and wanted to get my own tank. I'll just admit right here that I didn't do my research ahead of time and I messed up. Now that that's out of the way, I'm hoping you guys can help me rectify this.I bought an 80CF tank from a local guy and got what I thought was a great deal. It looks great, is in great working shape as far as I can tell, and has a hydro date from just a few months ago. It has been repainted, so some of the markings are hard to read. But, from what I can tell it was a privately owned tank and does not have any sort of neck ring identification. I'm not sure if that would normally be a stamp or a sticker, but I can see no markings from a stamp and there is definitely not a sticker. The original serial number is there, along with the tare weight and all the other basics. What I didn't realize at the time, is that the argon label is a big deal, and the fact that this one was removed was going to cause me all sorts of headaches. I was trying to get it filled at my local supply shops, but every single one refuses to without the label. I've called Praxair, Pentair, Airgas, and some other local businesses. None of them will do it. So now it seems I have an expensive, yet worthless hunk of metal sitting in my garage that I can't do anything with. I know with 100% confidence that it was filled with argon. I know with 100% confidence that it is now empty. I also know that you can purchase argon tank labels off of the internet. Heck, even Amazon has one for less than $5. So I guess to cut to the chase. Is it illegal to purchase a replacement label myself, slap it on the tank, and take it in to be filled or swapped? If it is illegal, do I have any other options for this tank other than to take it to a junk yard and try to get some of my money back from the steel?Thanks in advance for your help!
Reply:Did any of them give you any reason they would not swap a simple Q customer owned cylinder?Fill label should not mean a single solitary thing on a Q size cylinder.Someone is just to lazy to take your money in exchange for the product they produce.There seem to be a LOT of people out there with a giant stick up their hind end about cylinders.
Reply:The only reason I could get from any of them (and I did ask) was something to the effect that they didn't know what kind of gas was in it without the label, and it was policy not to refill. Also about having to rehydro, which I do not understand since it has a clearly good date on it.Odd, because I've read about other guys with the same issue I have taking the cylinder in to their local Airgas/Pentair/whatever and having no issues at all.
Reply:Hi, Mister_project.I don't think you would have a problem if you simply want to swap with them for another filled tank, paying only for the argon. At least I would not expect to have any problem with my LWS.Where are you located? Maybe someone near you can help you by directing to a LWS that will be easier to work with.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Post some pics of your tank showing profile, and markings. There may some other issue.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Buy the label and try again. Seems simple enough to risk $5 before giving up.Safety rules are simple and followed to the letter, regardless of how silly it seems. Here if you take an LPG tank in for a refill, and you don't have a plastic stopper in it when you roll up they wont fill it. You can buy the plastic stopper for $2, screw it in, then they will fill it, then for all they care you can throw the stopper in the bin as you walk out (although you would be a mug to do so, they do protect you from the slim change of the valve leaking).
Reply:Thanks for all the replies. I am willing to buy the label, but I don't want to be breaking any laws. I agree it is worth a try, so long as I don't go to jail..So aside from an owner stamp and hydro date, what do they care about when they check out the cylinder?
Reply:They may be concerned about rust inside the cylinder, or what the cylinder was used for while it was out of their control.Even if no one will swap it, all is not lost. If you have access to a full bottle of argon you could transfill from the larger bottle to your 80 cf bottle: search "transfill" on this forum.
Reply:I was not aware that gas suppliers sold fill labels.
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3I was not aware that gas suppliers sold fill labels.
Reply:mister_projectDo you have an account with any of the LWS you contacted?Opus
Reply:Originally Posted by FreneticEven if no one will swap it, all is not lost. If you have access to a full bottle of argon you could transfill from the larger bottle to your 80 cf bottle: search "transfill" on this forum.
Reply:Interesting conversation. I have an owner tank that I bought used. It has no neck label on it. I just ordered one on Amazon for less than $3. Hoping I don't have similar problems.
Reply:I have B acetylene and 40cf oxygen tanks from my hvac days that noone will give any credit toward larger tanks.  The small tanks can be swaped on any street corner but I need larger O&A tanks for what I do now.  Can't be any doupt about ownership since small tanks are never rented.
Reply:I don't know about other LWS's but Airgas in my area uses only 160 cu. ft. cylinders for customer-owned. I have two of them and they do have some paper labels on them. I never realized that those were a big deal, but I guess that they are. I also don't know about the legalities of adding your own label, however.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:I've never heard of any of these problems? I exchange tanks in eastern pennsylvania and new jersey very often. I've taken tanks with Praxair collars on them no questions asked at non Praxair stores, 15 year out of date cylinders exhanged plus a $25 fee to hydro test, Argon cylinder with no markings and all they asked was if I was sure it was argon, and I've never seen or heard of a stopper for a propane tank like was mentioned earlier. Where is everyone located that has so much trouble with their gas suppliers? I'm glad I don't live there!
Reply:Probably California. :-)
Reply:Originally Posted by monte_santa_cruzProbably California. :-)
Reply:I live in California. Sometimes it sucks. We have more lawyers and more regulations than you can believe. It's actually illegal to weld in my garage. I'm a criminal. :-)
Reply:Originally Posted by monte_santa_cruzI live in California. Sometimes it sucks. We have more lawyers and more regulations than you can believe. It's actually illegal to weld in my garage. I'm a criminal. :-)
Reply:They are blowing smoke up your dress. A Cylinder must  pass a visual inspection before its hydro is done- so no rust or garbage in it. . If the hydro is up to date then cylinder is good to use. If their problem is no sticker- id go get one. If the cylinder is empty -as in nothing comes out of it- no reason they can't fill it with argon- non flammable inert gas. Only breaking a law if it mislabeled
Reply:Are you close to the border of a neighboring state, so you could talk to someone who's normal? ☺
Reply:I'm in Iowa, which is generally pretty laid back in regard to regulations.I double checked last night and the cylinder has no ring markings and does in fact appear to have been privately owned throughout its entire life. I think I had a typo in one of my original posts--I have not stopped into any of the stores yes, and simply called ahead to ask. Something did come to mind from one of my phone chats--I think it was Airgas? They said that they do not fill on-site and simply swap tanks out. I am sure I mentioned that this was a privately owned 80CF cylinder prior to this. It makes me wonder how they would fill my tank like they said they could, if they don't do it on-site and swap them out. Surely they wouldn't swap out my private tank for one stamped with one of their markings?I ordered one of the labels from Amazon and will slap it on and give it a try. Hopefully it works. When Googling argon labels, I noticed that some look different than others. Yes, they all have the same color scheme and symbols, but some have small text and others don't. I hope there isn't a right or a wrong, or it's not some crappy label that doesn't meet regulations. I guess we'll wait and see. Thanks for all of your help!
Reply:There's policy variations from state to state, and even from location to location within the same company. In a one-for-one swap they may take your customer-owned empty and give you a different customer-owned full, the assumption being that a bottle is a bottle is a bottle, and as long as you have gas then it doesn't matter what or whose bottle is holding it. I bought oxy-acetylene bottles on Craigs List and know for a fact the oxy was out of hydro date, but the LWS took my bottle and swapped it without even looking.If you want your specific bottle back you will likely have some hoops to jump through (at a minimum, a second trip back to pick up the full some days or weeks later), but it sounds like you could swap and no longer have this problem.
Reply:I bought an 80 cu ft cylinder from my LWS 20 years ago. They told me upfront that l would never see "my" tank after the first refill. Swapped out for a full one and never paid for a hydro test. The label has their name on it but the cylinder has no ring.Eventual master of the obvious, practitioner of "stream of consciousness fabrication".  P.S. I edit almost every post because because I'm posting from my phone and my fingers sometimes move faster than my brain.Even the places I've been to that fill on site still just swap your bottle with a full one. You will never see your bottle again so take pictures for the memories. I don't think your going to have any problems once you bring it in.
Reply:I sure wish I had nickel for every time I've seen this reoccurring thread; I'd have like forty hundred nickels!!! "You can't out puke a buzzard"
Reply:I imagine the hold up is that you want to fill your own bottle.As others have mentioned just go in and say you wanna exchange.SOP around here.I give a rats are about getting my bottle back- only care what's inside Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1I imagine the hold up is that you want to fill your own bottle.As others have mentioned just go in and say you wanna exchange.SOP around here.I give a rats are about getting my bottle back- only care what's inside
Reply:Even places like Praxair around me have Praxair cylinders and blank cylinders for custom owned exchanges. Good luck
Reply:I haven't taken in the Ar cylinder I bought used yet. Over the phone my LWS said they could do it. I'm going to put the sticker on just in case.