6010 root 7018 out x-ray

admin

Hi. I am running 6010 root 7018 out on carbon steel pipe 3" and up. I am wondering if it is necessary to grind your root pass clean before putting in a hot pass. I have blown through a few times so I must have taken out too much. Also we are allowed to run a hot pass with 6010 . I've been told this will burn anything out. Just looking for other welders opinions. These are 100% x-ray
Reply:always clean clean clean when you're getting xrayed... but that depends how you grind and how you weld. I would grind but take as little as possible... and maybe try running just a hair colder on the next pass.Sent from my MB865 using TapatalkSynchrowave 250Lincoln WeldPack 180HDPropane torchhandyman's encylopedia collection of all types of toolsJack of all trades, ace of none...
Reply:I have never been allowed to hot pass with 6010,  only 7018.  I usually grind pretty clean, and then hot pass, even on 3".  You can burn a lot out, even with a 7018 hot pass, would I want to chance it ?  No.  I prefer to grind pretty clean, just to be sure nothing will show up on x ray.  I usually use extra caution on my hot pass and watch the puddle as it solidifies.  If you notice the weld stays red and that red/orange trails a distance behind you its time to stop and let the pipe cool for a few moments or you are going to blow a big hole.Journeyman / Red Seal Welder (What a useless test)Miller CST 280Miller XMT 350Miller 12vs XtremeEvolution Evo 28 mag drillEvolution 380 Dry Cut saw
Reply:Grind it "shiny".  Then on my hot pass i move side to side as quickly as possible, trying to keep a tight puddle. Just enough to reinforce the root. Then after that the fill passes have no chance of blowing through. It's hard to explain, some weldors try to hang out and throw more rod and heat into the hot pass than they need.Last edited by RodBender; 01-19-2016 at 11:09 PM.Local 83
Reply:For combatant navy ships doing a full penetration weld of the hull using dual shield and ceramic backing that get radiographed, I grind down the notchs at the toe to get them almost flush with a cutting disc, then clean the slag out of the toes with a "Christmas Tree" burr bit with the needle point tip to bright metal. Everyone else is on point, when getting x-rayed, clean as much as possible. Yes your hot pass should get it all out as long as your root has no ridiculous notches as the toe, but why take the chance. No one ever wants to see the same job twice.
Reply:The primary purpose of your hot pass is to burn out the slag from the root; not deposit metal. It is typical of an uphill SMAW pipe procedure to call for a 3/32" low-hy hot pass. You should not be grinding your root until it's shiny and no slag is left; if this is your method, then you need to revisit your welding technique. The grinder should be used after the root to knock the ridges off of the weld bead and clean out the big chunks of slag. The hot pass will deal with the rest of the slag.After that, you shouldn't have to touch a grinding wheel to your weld. I have never experienced a problem with this technique on any NDT testing methodology. If you depend on a grinder to make your welds work, then you need to go back to school.Last edited by Hillbilly Welder; 01-20-2016 at 02:17 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly WelderThe primary purpose of your hot pass is to burn out the slag from the root; not deposit metal. It is typical of an uphill SMAW pipe procedure to call for a 3/32" low-hy hot pass. You should not be grinding your root until it's shiny and no slag is left; if this is your method, then you need to revisit your welding technique. The grinder should be used after the root to knock the ridges off of the weld bead and clean out the big chunks of slag. The hot pass will deal with the rest of the slag.After that, you shouldn't have to touch a grinding wheel to your weld. I have never experienced a problem with this technique on any NDT testing methodology. If you depend on a grinder to make your welds work, then you need to go back to school.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly WelderThe primary purpose of your hot pass is to burn out the slag from the root; not deposit metal. It is typical of an uphill SMAW pipe procedure to call for a 3/32" low-hy hot pass. You should not be grinding your root until it's shiny and no slag is left; if this is your method, then you need to revisit your welding technique. The grinder should be used after the root to knock the ridges off of the weld bead and clean out the big chunks of slag. The hot pass will deal with the rest of the slag.After that, you shouldn't have to touch a grinding wheel to your weld. I have never experienced a problem with this technique on any NDT testing methodology. If you depend on a grinder to make your welds work, then you need to go back to school.
Reply:Ignorant? Give me a break.Believe it or not, there are many qualification tests over can take where there are absolutely no power tools allowed.And, yes, they do care. "The last one done is the first one gone," as the saying goes. And if you're spending time grinding every pass because you don't know how to put in a bead without having problems, you're going to be holding up the guys who don't need to grind everything, and your *** is going to see a pink slip and the blacktop. That's just how the world works. Yes, producing a weld to code is the end goal, but if you're slower than everyone else because you have to grind your welds out, you won't be employed very long. Originally Posted by Jase90That's a pretty damn ignorant! Yes we do understand that a hotpass has the potential to lift all of your slag and impurities out. But when your doing this for your job, unless you are specifically told by a supervisor or procedure "do not interpass clean" on on X-Ray weld," which by the way I've never and probably any reputable career welder has heard, you're going to clean between passes. It's part of the craft. Our goal is an end product met to standards, not to brag to everyone that you made an X-ray weld with no grinding or cleaning. Which btw, no one would probably give two turds if you did.
Reply:Maybe I come across as a prick; if I do, so be it. But that's the reality of welding. A competent welder doesn't need to do a lot of grinding, because he knows how to weld in such a fashion that it's not required. Those who live by the grinder are typically not long for this world. Originally Posted by Mark's WeldingWhat a prick you sound like there HillBilly Welder, but then again your kind of right, never did pipe but D1.5 AWS bridge code plate, all the way out to 1" NO GRINDERS, needle and pick anything you want chipping hammer away but no grinders! Makes a welding man out of you!
Reply:Ever heard the saying" if your not good at welding, you better be good at grinding".
Reply:Exactly. Or, "a grinder and paint will make a welder what he ain't." A weld bead that doesn't crown up or trap slag at the toes isn't a thing of legend. It just takes actual skill to be able to do. Any hack can fill a groove with metal if you let him grind as he goes. Originally Posted by M J DEver heard the saying" if your not good at welding, you better be good at grinding".
Reply:Originally Posted by RodBenderGrind it "shiny".  Then on my hot pass i move side to side as quickly as possible, trying to keep a tight puddle. Just enough to reinforce the root. Then after that the fill passes have no chance of blowing through. It's hard to explain, some weldors try to hang out and throw more rod and heat into the hot pass than they need.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly WelderThe primary purpose of your hot pass is to burn out the slag from the root; not deposit metal. It is typical of an uphill SMAW pipe procedure to call for a 3/32" low-hy hot pass. You should not be grinding your root until it's shiny and no slag is left; if this is your method, then you need to revisit your welding technique. The grinder should be used after the root to knock the ridges off of the weld bead and clean out the big chunks of slag. The hot pass will deal with the rest of the slag.After that, you shouldn't have to touch a grinding wheel to your weld. I have never experienced a problem with this technique on any NDT testing methodology. If you depend on a grinder to make your welds work, then you need to go back to school.
Reply:Weaving 6010 is common practice especially on a downhill pipe cap.You never want to burn through your root pass with the hot pass. It doesn't add additional reinforcement, it traps slag. Also, there are limits on the amount of reinforcement the is allowed on the underside of a root. Originally Posted by teh603Weaving with a 6010? o.0We were usually expected to grind the root fairly thin because we could push it out (or sometimes blow thru) and get better root penetration. Not sure if that's how it's done in the field, but it did give decent results. That usually resulted in us grinding it shiny and leaving practically no slag.Then again, the full- time instructors never seemed to agree with the adjuncts on how to use a 6010. They always said you had to whip straight in and straight out because it made filling the keyhole easier, while most of the adjuncts (who "don't know nothing" ) who substituted would always be telling us to make little circles. I'm still not entirely sure who was right because so many people like to talk about those little circles.
Reply:HiBefore I retired, I was making xray welds on all sizes of pipes.On uphill specs. For mild steel pipe6010 5P was the normal for the root (or 5P+ when it became available)Some specs called for the rest to be 7018 for fill and cap.If I could I would use 6010 for the hot passOn downhill specs.I would use 6010 5p or 5p+ for all passes.When I started welding, I would grind the first and second passes shinny which made it hard not to blow through on the second pass.After awhile I learned that I only have to grind out the overlaps and the start and stops and anywhere that I thought slag was trapped (I also tapered my tacks using the grinder).Of course I would wire brush itI only used a wire brush on the fill passes unless I thought I had trapped slag.I have taken some tests where no power tools were aloud.  I had a knife file in my bag for them.  Then out in the field grinders were the norm.  I think the reasoning was, if you could pass an xray with out a grinder, you sort-of know what you were doingSome weld inspectors in the field, wanted to see the tacks before the first pass and the first pass before the fill.  There reasoning was if you could weld without a lot of grinding and pass the xrays, they would not have to worry that they missed something on the “look-see”As far as speed goes some weldors are faster than others. You could be the fasted weldor in the world and just have a bad day..bad machine..bad rod..bad fit up..etc.Unless it’s taking a very long time to make a weld (say, 8 hours for a 3” pipe) no decent boss is going to fault youMike
Reply:They won't necessarily fault you for one bad day, but those who are consistently slower are going to attract attention, and not the good kind.
Reply:Last Job I was on we had a guy take 2 full 10 hour days to weld a 3 inch sch 40.  The joint was fit up and the gear was there.  He was laid off a few days later.  This was a big plant youd be half a day setting up gear just to weld.  He had no excuse though, as the job was fit up, and the gear was there all he had to do was weld.  After he was laid off a couple of other welders had to go back and do repairs on his weld too.Journeyman / Red Seal Welder (What a useless test)Miller CST 280Miller XMT 350Miller 12vs XtremeEvolution Evo 28 mag drillEvolution 380 Dry Cut saw
Reply:Originally Posted by teh603Weaving with a 6010? o.0We were usually expected to grind the root fairly thin because we could push it out (or sometimes blow thru) and get better root penetration. Not sure if that's how it's done in the field, but it did give decent results. That usually resulted in us grinding it shiny and leaving practically no slag.Then again, the full- time instructors never seemed to agree with the adjuncts on how to use a 6010. They always said you had to whip straight in and straight out because it made filling the keyhole easier, while most of the adjuncts (who "don't know nothing" ) who substituted would always be telling us to make little circles. I'm still not entirely sure who was right because so many people like to talk about those little circles.
Reply:Yup.Five characters. Originally Posted by TimmyTIG'Little circles' is wrong.
Reply:Originally Posted by oldtimewelderHiBefore I retired, I was making xray welds on all sizes of pipes.On uphill specs. For mild steel pipe6010 5P was the normal for the root (or 5P+ when it became available)Some specs called for the rest to be 7018 for fill and cap.If I could I would use 6010 for the hot passOn downhill specs.I would use 6010 5p or 5p+ for all passes.When I started welding, I would grind the first and second passes shinny which made it hard not to blow through on the second pass.After awhile I learned that I only have to grind out the overlaps and the start and stops and anywhere that I thought slag was trapped (I also tapered my tacks using the grinder).Of course I would wire brush itI only used a wire brush on the fill passes unless I thought I had trapped slag.I have taken some tests where no power tools were aloud.  I had a knife file in my bag for them.  Then out in the field grinders were the norm.  I think the reasoning was, if you could pass an xray with out a grinder, you sort-of know what you were doingSome weld inspectors in the field, wanted to see the tacks before the first pass and the first pass before the fill.  There reasoning was if you could weld without a lot of grinding and pass the xrays, they would not have to worry that they missed something on the “look-see”As far as speed goes some weldors are faster than others. You could be the fasted weldor in the world and just have a bad day..bad machine..bad rod..bad fit up..etc.Unless it’s taking a very long time to make a weld (say, 8 hours for a 3” pipe) no decent boss is going to fault youMike
Reply:I started welding in the early 1970's.I retired a couple of years ago.I would always try to watch the other welders around me.I felt I could always learn new things, even if I was a slightly little better that the other person. I could see what to do and what not to do. I never felt that I was to old or that I was welding to long to learn new techniques.Even an apprentice on the first day of the job was someone to watch. I liked to show new welders my "tricks" which sometimes led to me doing my welding better. Mike
Reply:Double post.Last edited by Hillbilly Welder; 01-21-2016 at 02:19 PM.
Reply:For those who don't believe that being able to weld without grinding is important, here's a good example of why it is.Ever heard of a lay barge? It's a ship where pipeline is welded and laid on to the ocean floor. They operate as a production line, where one guy puts in the root and hot pass, then the barge moves forward and the weld advances to the next guy, who puts in the fill, then it moves again and the last guy puts in the final fill and cap, then it moves through an x-ray room before it goes off the end of the barge. And everything is timed.That last guy was me at one time. And if any of the guys before you aren't able to do their part in time, then it puts the onus on you to pick up their slack and then do your part as well. Rarely have I seen a higher stress situation. And if you're the guy who is holding everyone else up and cause the barge to stop because you aren't getting your job done fast enough, you'll be out of there before you know what hit you.Last edited by Hillbilly Welder; 01-21-2016 at 02:20 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly WelderThe primary purpose of your hot pass is to burn out the slag from the root; not deposit metal. It is typical of an uphill SMAW pipe procedure to call for a 3/32" low-hy hot pass. You should not be grinding your root until it's shiny and no slag is left; if this is your method, then you need to revisit your welding technique. The grinder should be used after the root to knock the ridges off of the weld bead and clean out the big chunks of slag. The hot pass will deal with the rest of the slag.After that, you shouldn't have to touch a grinding wheel to your weld. I have never experienced a problem with this technique on any NDT testing methodology. If you depend on a grinder to make your welds work, then you need to go back to school.Sure thing. Fit-up is a bit of a personal preference, regarding things like root opening and land size. The go-to seems to be 1/8" for both land and root opening, but I like to go just a hair bigger with the land and a hair smaller with the root. I'm approaching 5/32" on the land and 3/32" on the opening, but it's really in between. With that type of fit-up, I find these numbers work well for me:1/8" XX10 root pass: 95 amps (Ideal range 90-100)3/32" XX18 hot pass: 90 amps (Ideal range 85-95)1/8" XX18 fill/cap: 112 amps (Ideal range 110-115)Running the root is a simple uphill whip-and-stitch. Wait until you see the keyhole, and start moving. You should be bringing the electrode out of the puddle approx. 1/2-1 full rod diameter, and then back in to fill. It's very easy for someone just learning this technique to travel too far out of the puddle, or to not come back far enough. You have to come back farther than you think, otherwise you end up with small holes in the root. Be aware of your work angle, make sure you're 90 degrees on to the pipe, not angled in either direction. If you are, you'll leave an exposed bevel on the underside of the root.Following the root pass, I take a 1/8" grinding wheel and run it up and down the bead a few times just to knock the ridges off of it and clean out the big chunks of slag. Then hit it with a wire wheel.The root pass should be run immediately afterward. If the root has time to cool, it will become much harder for the slag to be removed. Some codes have requirements regarding how long you can wait before starting the hot pass, or a minimum temperature the weldment has to be. The hot pass is somewhat of a balancing act, because you need to introduce heat to burn out the slag from the root pass, but you don't want to be depositing a bunch of metal because that makes it harder to float out the slag. The hot pass should be run with a side to side motion, being sure to pause plenty long on the edges so as not to leave any undercut that must be chased with a grinder before you start your fill.If the hot pass was done correctly, you should be able to knock the slag off with your wire wheel and have no entrapments at the toes of the weld. If you do, chase them out with an .045" cutting wheel on a grinder. But be sure not to cut too deep, because a valley like that is hard to fill with your 1/8" low-hy without trapping slag. Run your fill passes in the same manner, ensuring that you pause long enough at the toes.Depending on the WPS you're welding to, you'll run either a Z-weave or 2/3 pass cap. The 2/3 pass stringer cap is more common up here, though the Z-weave is still done on occasion. That's primarily due to the cold-weather qualities we need welds to have, which smaller passes help with. If you're running the Z-weave, you'll find that you need to bring the end of the electrode a full electrode diameter (flux included) outside of the bevel on each side in order to do it properly. The reason for this is on the bottom side of the pipe, you have to swing it that wide simply due to the amount of metal you're carrying. You could do it narrower on the sides and top, but to pass a visual it needs to be of a consistent width, so match the width on the bottom of the pipe all the way around it.  Originally Posted by tiginatorAny tips on how to achieve this would be appreciated . I.E. fit up, heat, technique, what to watch for.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly WelderSure thing. Fit-up is a bit of a personal preference, regarding things like root opening and land size. The go-to seems to be 1/8" for both land and root opening, but I like to go just a hair bigger with the land and a hair smaller with the root. I'm approaching 5/32" on the land and 3/32" on the opening, but it's really in between. With that type of fit-up, I find these numbers work well for me:1/8" XX10 root pass: 95 amps (Ideal range 90-100)3/32" XX18 hot pass: 90 amps (Ideal range 85-95)1/8" XX18 fill/cap: 112 amps (Ideal range 110-115)Running the root is a simple uphill whip-and-stitch. Wait until you see the keyhole, and start moving. You should be bringing the electrode out of the puddle approx. 1/2-1 full rod diameter, and then back in to fill. It's very easy for someone just learning this technique to travel too far out of the puddle, or to not come back far enough. You have to come back farther than you think, otherwise you end up with small holes in the root. Be aware of your work angle, make sure you're 90 degrees on to the pipe, not angled in either direction. If you are, you'll leave an exposed bevel on the underside of the root.Following the root pass, I take a 1/8" grinding wheel and run it up and down the bead a few times just to knock the ridges off of it and clean out the big chunks of slag. Then hit it with a wire wheel.The root pass should be run immediately afterward. If the root has time to cool, it will become much harder for the slag to be removed. Some codes have requirements regarding how long you can wait before starting the hot pass, or a minimum temperature the weldment has to be. The hot pass is somewhat of a balancing act, because you need to introduce heat to burn out the slag from the root pass, but you don't want to be depositing a bunch of metal because that makes it harder to float out the slag. The hot pass should be run with a side to side motion, being sure to pause plenty long on the edges so as not to leave any undercut that must be chased with a grinder before you start your fill.If the hot pass was done correctly, you should be able to knock the slag off with your wire wheel and have no entrapments at the toes of the weld. If you do, chase them out with an .045" cutting wheel on a grinder. But be sure not to cut too deep, because a valley like that is hard to fill with your 1/8" low-hy without trapping slag. Run your fill passes in the same manner, ensuring that you pause long enough at the toes.Depending on the WPS you're welding to, you'll run either a Z-weave or 2/3 pass cap. The 2/3 pass stringer cap is more common up here, though the Z-weave is still done on occasion. That's primarily due to the cold-weather qualities we need welds to have, which smaller passes help with. If you're running the Z-weave, you'll find that you need to bring the end of the electrode a full electrode diameter (flux included) outside of the bevel on each side in order to do it properly. The reason for this is on the bottom side of the pipe, you have to swing it that wide simply due to the amount of metal you're carrying. You could do it narrower on the sides and top, but to pass a visual it needs to be of a consistent width, so match the width on the bottom of the pipe all the way around it.
Reply:If you're running a downhill 6010 hot pass then it's no longer an uphill procedure. More than likely it's an API 1104 procedure which is 6010 downhill from root to cap.  Originally Posted by tiginatorOk I'll give it a shot. What do you think about 6010 downhill hotpass. If the QC allows.
Reply:It's definitely an uphill procedure. B31.1 is the code they are using. The qc mentioned he was ok with a 6010 hot pass but the wps does specify 7018 after the root
Reply:Then you need a new QC guy. None of the critical variables on a WPS can be changed without re-qualifying the procedure. Fudging the amperage by a few percent or the bevel angle by a few degrees is one thing, but if you're changing things like the rod being used, the polarity, etc, that's a big no-no. Weld to the WPS, or don't weld it. The QC guy isn't qualified to determine whether or not a weld made with a 6010 hot pass is still as strong as the same weld made with a 7018 hot pass; that's the engineer's job. And ASME B31.1 does not allow a 6010 hot pass. If you run one, then you are no longer performing an uphill procedure.I'd speak with the higher ups on the job about your QC guy. It's not cool to have someone like that running around. He doesn't get to decide what rod you use to run it. His only job is to ensure that the weld is defect-free.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly WelderThen you need a new QC guy. None of the critical variables on a WPS can be changed without re-qualifying the procedure. Fudging the amperage by a few percent or the bevel angle by a few degrees is one thing, but if you're changing things like the rod being used, the polarity, etc, that's a big no-no. Weld to the WPS, or don't weld it. The QC guy isn't qualified to determine whether or not a weld made with a 6010 hot pass is still as strong as the same weld made with a 7018 hot pass; that's the engineer's job. And ASME B31.1 does not allow a 6010 hot pass. If you run one, then you are no longer performing an uphill procedure.I'd speak with the higher ups on the job about your QC guy. It's not cool to have someone like that running around. He doesn't get to decide what rod you use to run it. His only job is to ensure that the weld is defect-free.
Reply:Bull****. A weld inspector advising you to not follow the WPS is a huge problem. The QC guys play a vital role in ensuring that welds are sound so that structures don't fail, and people don't get hurt or die, and environments aren't damaged. Improperly performed welds are a huge liability for the owner and a risk to the public and surrounding area, especially on pressure piping. That guy would be on the next plane home if the owner found out. Originally Posted by TimmyTIGThis is some seriously bad advice. Don't make waves over something like this. You don't want to make an enemy of the QC guy.
Reply:Bull****. A weld inspector advising you to not follow the WPS is a huge problem. The QC guys play a vital role in ensuring that welds are sound so that structures don't fail, and people don't get hurt or die, and environments aren't damaged. Improperly performed welds are a huge liability for the owner and a risk to the public and surrounding area, especially on pressure piping. That guy would be on the next plane home if the owner found out. Originally Posted by TimmyTIGThis is some seriously bad advice. Don't make waves over something like this. You don't want to make an enemy of the QC guy.
Reply:I'm with hillbilly welder here, being a CWI/NDT tech you can't tell a welder it's ok to change a esential variable in the WPS. That would land the qc guy out of a job or worse for willful negligence. Don't listen to the QC guy and follow the WPS to the letter!MIller Dynasty 300Miller 251Miller legend NT 1948 onan port-a-weld
Reply:You can follow the WPS if you like, but you don't need to go to the higher ups. What if the QC is the owner's brother in law?
Reply:One extra pass of 6010 is not gonna cause structures to fail and people to die. They welded strictly 6010 for many years before 7018 ever came out, and those welds are still in service all around the world.
Reply:I don't give a damn if the owner and inspector are married. If he's not doing his job, he needs to be called out.There's a reason XX10 is no longer used in pressure piping. Because the engineers have developed better, stronger, more effective welding procedures.  Originally Posted by TimmyTIGOne extra pass of 6010 is not gonna cause structures to fail and people to die. They welded strictly 6010 for many years before 7018 ever came out, and those welds are still in service all around the world.
Reply:Pretty sure there's still a ton of pipeline welding being done with it.
Reply:You're correct. And it's all low pressure pipe. API 1104 is a much more lenient code than ASTM B31. There is a whole slough of metallurgical reasons that cellulose rod is inadequate for anything other than a root pass on high pressure pipe.
Reply:Well then, let's see a few.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly WelderI don't give a damn if the owner and inspector are married. If he's not doing his job, he needs to be called out.
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGOne extra pass of 6010 is not gonna cause structures to fail and people to die. They welded strictly 6010 for many years before 7018 ever came out, and those welds are still in service all around the world.
Reply:XX10 electrodes are low-alloy electrodes, which are incompatible with the medium and high alloy steels typically found in high-pressure pipe. XX10 electrodes also impart more hydrogen into the weld than XX18 electrodes do, which is unacceptable due to the higher carbon content in most high pressure pipe. The hydrogen makes the weld zone susceptible to cracking.Low hydrogen electrodes produce a cleaner, stronger weld than the cellulose electrodes do.ASTM B31 is much more strict than API 1104. The cellulose electrodes work well for API 1104 because they're fast, which is an obvious benefit when running cross-country pipelines, but they don't produce the same quality weld as the low-hydrogen family does. You're more likely to see slag inclusions in a downhill pipe weld than an uphill one, and that's okay because API 1104 tolerates more than ASTM B31 does. But those inclusions won't fly in a high pressure pipe weld. Practically all medium and high alloy or medium and high carbon steel is welded with low-hydrogen electrodes. And I'm not a metallurgist or a weld engineer, so I don't know all the nuances of why exactly they specify the electrodes and alloys that they do. What I do know is that you won't find any high pressure codes that allow anything more than a root pass with cellulose rods. Rest assured, there's a reason for it. Originally Posted by TimmyTIGWell then, let's see a few.
Reply:I don't care what relation he has to the GM. The purpose of having welding inspectors on site is to ensure that the welds comply with applicable codes, so that the liability on the owner is minimized. Because when welds fail and people die or a process plant explodes or thousands of gallons of oil is dumped into a river or the tundra, it's the owner's *** on the line. You can bet your *** that the owner doesn't want a weld inspector on site that is allowing sub-par welds to pass. On more than one occasion I've gone head to head with inspectors and GMs that were more than happy to permit low quality work to fly under the radar, and haven't lost yet. The owners WANT honest people on site. Every time. When the cost of a weld failing is so high, the fact that anyone would value their paycheck over the potential loss of life or irreparable damage to the environment is absolutely disgraceful. Originally Posted by teh603"I got fired because I called out the CWI and it turned out he was the general manager's son-in-law" is going to look really good on every job application he(?) files for the rest of his life, too. The robo- screener always asks if you've ever been fired. Sometimes it doesn't even give you the chance to explain yourself.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hillbilly WelderI don't care what relation he has to the GM. The purpose of having welding inspectors on site is to ensure that the welds comply with applicable codes, so that the liability on the owner is minimized. Because when welds fail and people die or a process plant explodes or thousands of gallons of oil is dumped into a river or the tundra, it's the owner's *** on the line. You can bet your *** that the owner doesn't want a weld inspector on site that is allowing sub-par welds to pass. On more than one occasion I've gone head to head with inspectors and GMs that were more than happy to permit low quality work to fly under the radar, and haven't lost yet. The owners WANT honest people on site. Every time. When the cost of a weld failing is so high, the fact that anyone would value their paycheck over the potential loss of life or irreparable damage to the environment is absolutely disgraceful.
Reply:Those are all good points, but here's how I see it. If he was welding on something so critical that it couldn't support an extra pass of 6010, they probably wouldn't be using it in the first place.
Reply:And here's the way I see it. Unless you can provide an engineering proof that negates what the ASTM code dictates, then you're not qualified to make that call.No weld inspector that would permit major deviation from the WPS should be allowed on any job, anywhere, any time, and no welder should ever deviate from the critical variables in his WPS because it's written the way it is for a reason, with the engineering proofs to back it up.Codes are to be treated as law, because they are enforceable by law. A contractor that knowingly produces work that is not up to code is guilty of fraud. And any welder or inspector who is party to it is guilty, as well. How stupid do you have to be to deviate from critical variables of your WPS like that? Why on Earth would any competent welder be okay doing that? And why would any employee be okay working under an inspector who permits work that does not meet the applicable codes to pass? In what universe is that acceptable, or something to be ignored due to jobsite politics? Originally Posted by TimmyTIGThose are all good points, but here's how I see it. If he was welding on something so critical that it couldn't support an extra pass of 6010, they probably wouldn't be using it in the first place.
Reply:The Welding Inspector on a pipe job has the responsibility to see that each weld is done to the proper specification. Each certification has different procedures,An x-ray can’t see what kind of rod was used and if the grinder flattens the swirls, it can’t see what direction the weld was made.His job is to see that no “short cuts” are made.If a weld fails while in service, The Welding Inspector will be questioned as to why.If he allowed major deviations, he wouldn’t last too long in that line of work.If it gets around that he allows different procedures, how many owners would want to hire him?Mike
Reply:Exactly. Sound weld or not, any weld produced with an electrode not specified in the WPS is an automatic, mandatory, rejection of the weld as required by the code having authority. Originally Posted by oldtimewelderThe Welding Inspector on a pipe job has the responsibility to see that each weld is done to the proper specification. Each certification has different procedures,An x-ray can’t see what kind of rod was used and if the grinder flattens the swirls, it can’t see what direction the weld was made.His job is to see that no “short cuts” are made.If a weld fails while in service, The Welding Inspector will be questioned as to why.If he allowed major deviations, he wouldn’t last too long in that line of work.If it gets around that he allows different procedures, how many owners would want to hire him?Mike
Reply:I always grind my root clean and shiny, then run a 6010 hotpass....the reason I do this Is if there was even the tiniest bit of low/flush spot the hot pass will blow through and it becomes a self repair (especially on a weld you can't see the inside on). But if i was to take a test where the procedure only allowed 7018 after the root, I'd grind to where wagon tracks are barely visible then run my lo-hy, because if you blow through with lo-hy its no bueno. But if i was given the option, always run 5p for the hot pass as well, just my opinion and its worked great for me for all my x-ray buttwelds. On roll outs I like to fill as much as I can with my 5p hot pass as well, but thats just me....the less 7018 the better, way less rejects from what I've seen.