3 in 1 welders vs mig only- something for nothing? Or compromise?

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Are the new mig -stick -tig welders like the Tweco 211i  as good a mig welder as a mig only  like  the Miller 211 auto set?  Do they give up something to gain the stick and tig capability  or are  these processes simple low cost additions?   I am on the fence about a welder for general home-shop-use- the cost of adding a torch, argon bottle, foot control, gas valve etc to the tweco for tig makes me wonder if it would be better to buy a mig only now  and save up for an standalone ac-dc tig in the future.  If the Tweco does not give up anything in the mig dept, then it becomes much more appealing.
Reply:They're inverted based rather than transformer based...that's how they can do different types of output from one machine as it's all electronic switching.
Reply:no , what you have is an inverter power source and your choice of process. what you may not get is high freq start and all the square wave settings for tig at that price. many manufacturers are making there inverters this way . I have a Razorweld razor 195 which is a fantastic inverter multiprocess machine
Reply:As an owner of a Tweco Fabricator 181i and user of a Mullermatic 211 everyday i can tell you that the Miller is a much much smoother running machine. I spent a good deal of time playing with the settings on the Tweco and never got as smooth of an arc as I get with the Miller. As far as MIG welding goes a dedicated machine from the biggest name in the business is hard to beat.
Reply:I'm interested in this as well... I'm hoping to be in the market in the next six months and I can't decide between the 211 or the new lincoln that's coming out.I already have a Lincoln idealarc tig 250/250 for stick and tig.
Reply:Why play around? Buy one of these, totally amazing the control this machine has over the puddle.http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us.../invertec.aspx Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:CEP- that looks good! I'll send you a grand, just pack it all up and ship it to me. I'll even pay shipping! you are going to come along and show me how to use it, yes?
Reply:Originally Posted by stoneaxeCEP- that looks good! I'll send you a grand, just pack it all up and ship it to me. I'll even pay shipping! you are going to come along and show me how to use it, yes?
Reply:Well I prefer the small size due to the space I have. 28 lbs. vs. 200lbs.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPWhere in the Puget Sound are you? I'm on the west side, you can come over and play.
Reply:Originally Posted by stoneaxeI am in between Port Orchard and Gig harbor. A total newbie to welding.
Reply:What about an xmt 304.  I used to see these on CL all the time.  If I had the coin laying around I would pick one of these up stat.
Reply:I just went though this.  I compared specs for EVER.  In the end, I got a Tweco 211i.  I am very pleased with it and love the versatility of it.  I think that it stick and mig welds great.  It seems to have enough advisability for me to make a decent weld. I have not done any tig yet, so no info there.  I have other transformer based SMAW machines, but this is my first inverter, and so far I like it.  I feel that I made a sold choice for the verity of uses I do.I'm not sure if this helps.
Reply:Originally Posted by ja_cainWhat about an xmt 304.  I used to see these on CL all the time.  If I had the coin laying around I would pick one of these up stat.
Reply:Originally Posted by tbone550When I think of a 3-in-1 machine, I think of one that already has a MIG feeder built in, and comes with the gun. The XMT is more of a multiprocess power source than a "3-in-1".  If you want to add the MIG process to it, you buy a suitcase (or other) feeder to the tune of a few hundred (used) up to well over a thousand.  The XMT is in a whole different league than the typical 3-in-1 machines as far as power output and arc quality, and you pay for that output in dollars, size, weight, and input power requirements.I have both an XMT 304 and a Multimatic 200, which fill very different needs for me.  You'll notice that I didn't offer either of them up for sale in my recent sale thread.
Reply:Just realized I might have misunderstood you, ja_cain.  I thought you were suggesting an XMT as another example of a 3-in-1, but after re-reading your post I see that I was probably wrong.The only downsides to the XMT are that you have more leads and control cables going here and there, it'll cost more to set up, and it'll take up more space.  Having said that, for my purposes I'd never buy a dedicated MIG if I could get an XMT and even a cheap feeder (enough to get me going) at close to or the same cost.  If you're only going to have one welder, I'm a firm believer in it being capable of stick welding.
Reply:Dual voltage is also getting quite popular on such machines.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:3 in 1 reminds me of a type of oil , I never liked that either. Dedicated machine for each process. If funds are a concern then I guess you gotta really evaluate it. If a mig will fulfill 90 % of your work , go for the mig. If your gonna be working with dirty old rusty steel , get a stick. If you like cleaning all material go for a tig. Get all three and make ONE cart .
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPMe too. Off Mullenix road.
Reply:Originally Posted by stoneaxeI am in your neck of the woods- sent ya a pm.
Reply:3 in 1 is more like 2.5 in one.You get full mig capability, full stick capability and scratch start/lift tig sprinkled on top. A full featured DC tig would have hf start, gas solenoid and a pedal, settings for post flow etc and 3 in 1s don't have all of those things.These machines are portable for a mig but probably about two to three times the size of an inverter stick machine with similar power.So I think it's really an inverter mig with stick more than anything else.Comparing Lincolns new power mig 210MP to their same sized power mig 180 dual - for mig welding you get more power, higher duty cycle and more arc adjustability (inductance) and 2/3rds of the weight for almost exactly the same money. Stick you get for free. And tig capability as well. It's a no brainer, even if you never intend to stick weld with it or hook it up to a tig torch.We have the euro version of the powermig 210MP called speedtec at work. I don't have much experience with a lot of different machines but the guys that have says that this little lincoln is top notch in the quality of the arc and how it welds, both for mig and stick. Hopefully the powermig 210MP is too.Last edited by Pete.S.; 10-10-2014 at 08:38 PM.
Reply:the lincoln powermig 210MP does seem promising - looking at the manual , it can use a foot pedal
Reply:I will also add that the new Lincoln multiprpcess machine looks very promising and being from Lincoln I would expect it to be a very good machine but I will still wait until I see reviews or get a chance to test one before I sell my current Tweco
Reply:I have a TA/Tweco 211i and really like it so far. I think that for a home shop the 3-in-1's are a GREAT choice. On the other hand, if you are running a production shop a dedicated machine for each process may be a better choice. I cannot comment on the other 3-in-1's but here is my experience so far with the 211iStick:I have been through a box of 6011's and started on a box of 7018's and I really like the way they burn. I ran some 6013's and.. meh; I'm not really much on running 6013's. With the exception of a Powcon 200SM that I had a while back, all of my previous stick welding was done with transformer based machines, so it's hard to compare the two. I am liking the way this inverter box handles the stick welding.MIG:I have to say.. The quick adjustment guide gets you very close to being spot on and it puts off a pretty nice MIG bead. Granted, minor adjustments may be needed to find that sweet spot between amperage and wirespeed. I haven't played with the burn-back feature, but will mess with it a bit when I get my tank filled next. The 211i can support full sized 12" spools of wire, so thats a plus as compared to the 181. It is not as portable as one may think once you install the spool of wire though.TIG:Well, it has been 17 years since doing any tig work and I just finally fired up my torch and foot pedal over the weekend to weld up a bunch of 1/8" hot roll lap and t-joint samples and I am still getting used to the machine and torch. For starts, I have only used high freq start machines in the past and never used a lift start or a scratch start machine prior to purchasing the 211i. One thing to note though is that there is a difference between scratch start and lift start. Scratch start is what you would do if you were to add a tig torch to a transformer based box. Lift start is something that I believe is associates exclusively with non-HF inverter based boxes.- With scratch start, the tungsten is always hot and you actually scratch it against the material like a match to start the arc. As one could assume, this can create tungsten contamination issues just from starting an arc.- With lift start and inverter based power source, the tungsten is touched to the material, pedal or button is depressed and sensing voltage is applied to the tungsten by the power source. Open circuit voltage doesn't happen until the tungsten is pulled away from the material creating an arc. I was a little leary initially, but after a bit of practice a nice crisp/clean arc is established upon pulling away from the work. I start the arc with minimal amperage, then increase once established to create the weld pool. Not half bad from the little I have messed with it so far.One thing that was confusing to me with the 211i in tig mode was setting amperage and modifying downslope, while maintaining foot pedal control. This is what I learned:The local/remote switch needs to be set to remote to in order to get variable amperage control from the foot pedal. However, once switched to remote the only thing that is displayed on the front panel is 10 on the amperage indicator. "until you start an arc, which is kinda hard to see with your hood down". The downslope (voltage knob) doesn't display downslope in the indicator, rather it is actually the number that you have the knob physically pointed to. 4 = 4 sec downslope, 0 = no downslope, etc. The trick is that you set maximum amperage allowed by foot pedal while switch is in local position, then set to remote to gain variable foot pedal control. Otherwise, you can just do it by feel once you get used to the dials.Other than that, there is no AC aluminum tig welding and no fancy wave manipulation controls and the duty cycle is around 20% when operating at the higher amperage ranges. For the home shop where you are working with mild steel, stainless steel, sheet metal, I say sure it's great. However, in environments where your welds are much more specialized and more scrutinity is applied, it's probably not the machine for the job.So in other words, I concur with most others in that it is a great stick / MIG machine, but if you want a feature rich TIG machine you may want to look at a box dedicated to this process. I would think that for somebody like you who is new and has a shop at the house, a 3-in-1 may give you the most bang for your buck.Just my 2c, and please feel free to correct me if I have mis quotes something.. What I do know is much smaller than what I don't know.-Niche
Reply:Oh yeah, and if you do get a 3-in-1, pull spec sheets of similar machines from all of the manufacturers that you are considering and do a stare and compare between them to compare the specs and features of each process it performs between MIG/TIG/Stick, weight, wire spool capacity, dual voltage capable, single/dual gas solenoid, highest/lowest operating amperage, etc. Some things may matter to you, others may not. If there are any terms that are not understood either google them to get a better understanding, or I am sure that somebody here wouldn't mind clarifying.-NicheOops, my bad; you never said that you were new. Minus all the hand holding verbage.. Sorry.