Any recommendations on getting up to speed on CNC Plasma Tables--Programing?

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Well this old knuckle dragging toothless hillibly would like to get into a 4x4 PlasmaTable.  I have enough projects to probably keep me busy the rest of my life.  Unfortunately, I haven't had any experience with CNC or CAD with either machine tools or anything else.  If you were starting out and wanted to bone up on the operation and programing would you have any books, guides, or classed you could suggest? As always, I appreciate your words of wisdom.  Thanks.
Reply:There are a dozen or more small (entry level) cnc plasma table manufacturers out there today. The two biggest producers are Torchmate and PlasmaCam. I have one of each in my shop....each were pretty easy to learn.To make the use of these machines easier....you simply need to learn how to draw in CAD . Take an introductory course in CAD drawing that is focused on mechanical type drawing at a local community college....or on;line. Once you have mastered the basics of this...you are ready to take the plunge.As far as buying machines and specing the right components...I'll be hapopy to offer advice.Jim Colt Originally Posted by 200mphbusaWell this old knuckle dragging toothless hillibly would like to get into a 4x4 PlasmaTable.  I have enough projects to probably keep me busy the rest of my life.  Unfortunately, I haven't had any experience with CNC or CAD with either machine tools or anything else.  If you were starting out and wanted to bone up on the operation and programing would you have any books, guides, or classed you could suggest? As always, I appreciate your words of wisdom.  Thanks.
Reply:I've seen the torchmates and they look really cool, but I have a question. What is the benefit to using one that cuts with a plasma vs a CNC that will cut with a router and leave you with smooth edges and the ability to scribe/engrave etc.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:If you want to cut metals at productive speeds the plasma is far better suited. For softer materials such as wood, plastics, etc....the router would be the best choice. Routers and plasma's are not generally competitive processes.Jim Colt Here is a smooth plasma cut edge on 3/8" steel cut at 32 inches per minute with a Hypertherm Powermax45. This was done on a PlasmaCam cnc machine. A router could not do this on steel.Jim Colt Attached Images
Reply:Ah makes sense now. ThanksTorchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Jim,How come my handheld cuts on 3/4" plate with a PM 1250 don't look like that?Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:If you learn quickly with computer programs, don't bother taking a class. Pick up a book on the program you want to use and get to work playing with it. I am required to take several CAD classes (studying Mechanical Engineering Technology) and the classes are basically teach yourself anyway. CAD is rather simple to pick up, but its dependent on which program your using. I prefer 3D modeling programs over drafting programs. Which you use will be dependent on the table you get and what your willing to buy. I know that Torchmate plasma's (the brand I will most likely buy) can take the file created in a CAD program and automatically create the CNC cut pattern. I believe it only takes autocad .dxf files though (I'm not a fan of autocad).While understanding G-Code may have some uses, your going to be using CAD/CAM rather then manually programming. Therefore, I wouldn't worry much about learning G-Code.
Reply:Jim and Seb650R--many thanks for the recommendations and advice as always I appreciate the sage wisdom.  I will pick up a CAD drawing book and I think I'll at least get started if not go full bore and self teach.  Otherwise, this would give me a jump on the class.  Jim--I have had my eye on the Torchmate 2X2. Lincoln has a smoking deal on it with the plasma.  I have however toyed with the idea of going the more time consuming and probably more expensive route of going a gantry kit and cobbling the rest together.  This concept allows me to possibly get into a 4x4 where I probably should be.  It will also like many of these drag out for a long time, consume shop space, but I can say I built it.  Which makes me question that concept as I learn from mistakes.  Got thoughts on the size? Again, thanks for sharing your ideas.
Reply:I would not poop poop Gcode so fast that is what make the CNC table move.  For simple form cuts you could just write a short string of commands to do it instead of drawing it up then run it though cam to get Gcode.  Gcode can be written with notepad and used by a table controller. Some of the software is not cheap when you get to the pro versions.  I just finished building my table and cutting parts today.I was a great learning experience.  You can save a lot of money building your own but it takes time.If your running  shop buy one it a write off, for a hobbyist build one.my 2 cents worth[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdG9_ZQSxCg&list=UUrWyAGIpMmQfMwq0KTKpuRw&  index=1&feature=plcp[/ame]Last edited by acourtjester; 06-25-2012 at 10:46 PM.
Reply:The size of the machine depends on what you plan to use it for...as well as how often you plan to use it. In the U.S. the smallest standard sizes of steel plate and sheets would be 4' x 8'. You will pay more for smaller pieces...especially when you get down to 2' x 2'.The Torchmate / Lincoln "deal" on the 2 x 2 includes a Lincoln plasma and no torch height control system. Spend a little more and get a decent plasma, and a height control. I am quite sure that there are more Torchmate machines out there with Hypertherm plasma than their own brand....and Torchmate will give you a deal on a Hypertherm as well. Almost everyone that has purchased the 2 x 2 wishes they had a larger machine, and everyone that buys a cnc  plasma without height control realizes the value of a height control rather quickly.Personally...I would not consider a machine smaller than 4' x 4' , although I have a Torchmate 2' x 4' (I built it so I can slide a 4' wide sheet of any length in).In regards to GCode.....with good operating software and a well designed machine....you will never have to deal with the old school G-Code. The G-Code is there...it is the information that tells the cnc machine everything it needs....direction, speed, when to turn plasma on/off, and much more. With older technology machines the operator had to become familiar with writing and editing GCode in order to make the system cut to the best of its ability.  With my Torchmate software...as well as my PlasmaCam software....all that is needed is a CAD Drawing file (.dxf format) to make the process work.And Sundownlll, you would not want to see my freehand cuts! I do ok with a straight edge or template...Jim Colt Originally Posted by 200mphbusaJim and Seb650R--many thanks for the recommendations and advice as always I appreciate the sage wisdom.  I will pick up a CAD drawing book and I think I'll at least get started if not go full bore and self teach.  Otherwise, this would give me a jump on the class.  Jim--I have had my eye on the Torchmate 2X2. Lincoln has a smoking deal on it with the plasma.  I have however toyed with the idea of going the more time consuming and probably more expensive route of going a gantry kit and cobbling the rest together.  This concept allows me to possibly get into a 4x4 where I probably should be.  It will also like many of these drag out for a long time, consume shop space, but I can say I built it.  Which makes me question that concept as I learn from mistakes.  Got thoughts on the size? Again, thanks for sharing your ideas.
Reply:Jim--valuable and precious advice thanks--4x4 is the way I need to go and I will definitely add the height control when getting one.  Thanks again for the recommendations.  What brand and of size plasma cutter did you use to make those beautiful cuts in that 3/4" plate.  Damn Nice work.
Reply:The picture in my earlier post is of 3/8" steel, not 3/4". It was cut with a Hypertherm Powermax45 at 45 amps on a PlasmaCam cnc machine. Attached is a picture of 3/4" steel cut with a Hypertherm Powermax85 at 85 amps on the same PlasmaCam machine.Jim Colt Originally Posted by 200mphbusaJim--valuable and precious advice thanks--4x4 is the way I need to go and I will definitely add the height control when getting one.  Thanks again for the recommendations.  What brand and of size plasma cutter did you use to make those beautiful cuts in that 3/4" plate.  Damn Nice work.