Weldanpower 225 won't charge

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Hi I just got a lincoln weldanpower 225 g7 code 9444 and have sent the board to be checked out and the regulator and some other part were put in new but it still will not charge as it should, Does charge a small amount but only bring the battery voltage from like 11.90 to 12.10 when running. Also it is supposed to idle at about 2200 rpm but when I set the idle below about 2400 the idle will go to high speed every few seconds then go back down. It does weld good and ac power is good but have had to unplug the idle board a couple of times to get it to do anything at all. When this happens it wont weld no ac power or the idler don't work untill I unplug the board the plug it in and it will be fine except it does not charge enough. Any help would be great, Thank you
Reply:Which emgine is powering your 225?
Reply:Code 9444 has a briggs and stratton. Idle pc board is also the battery charger.It is powered by weld voltage. Down load from Lincoln IM368. Check all the connections to the pc board. Make sure they are clean and tight. Make sure you have weld voltage to the pc board. Wires 7 and 8. Make sure the wires to the battery are all good. Wires 208 to 209 and wire 5 ground. If every thing around the pcb is good then there may be a problem with the pcb.
Reply:Thanks I will check these wires out today. It is a briggs motor. Any ideas why it wont stay at idle. as I said as long as you set it above about 2400 it is fine but specs say it should be about 2200. It will kick up to high every few seconds if set that low. The board on it was supposed to have been checked out and replaced all bad parts and the battery regulator was put in. ThanksLast edited by RRWITTER; 05-20-2010 at 04:24 AM.
Reply:Everything ccawgc said plus check the AUTO IDLE switch itself.  The switch contacts may be loosing continuity at the lower speed due to engine vibration.  Same vibration could be causing one or more terminals at the PCB1 connector to loose contact as well - hence ccawgc's instruction ot check all connections.  Another wire at the PCB1 connector terminal to pay particular attention to is #215 which provides the controlled ground to the idler solenoid.  Also check connections at the solenoid too.  And don't rule out a faulty idler solenoid either (intermittent open in the coil winding) but a common cause is just a poor connection.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:OK This is what I have done so far, I have checked wires 7,8,5e,213a,215,209,208 through the plug at the back of the board and moved them and the plug around while checking and didn't lose connection, After I done this I put board back on and it would not weld or idle down and no voltage at wires 7 & 8 untill I shut it off and uplugged The board for about 10 seconds which I have noted before when it does this it has to be unplugged for a little while before it will work, Then I checked voltage at the solenod and it was about 11vdc, slowed idle down to 2200 and it kicked up and lost voltage, noted that the CR2 relay also kicked out at the same time. When it is working I got about 37vdc at 7&8, not sure what it should be. The battery voltage was 12.37vdc not running and 12.53 running at high speed. As I said before if idle is a little higher it doesn't go to high and welds ok ac is ok so This may be a board problem but it should have been all checked out. Thanks for all the help.
Reply:If unplugging the board for a period of time allows it to work briefly then I'd have to say a component is suffering from an intermittent failure due to heating from applied voltage or it has a fractured solder connection that is opening for the same reason.  Either way the board would still need attention. . . again.Was that 37vdc between wires 7 & 8 at low or high idle speed?  Sounds about right for low idle OCV but I suspect it should be twice that at high idle.How are you determining engine speed?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:I have a laser tach that I use for low speed, this is a laser that you put a peice of white tape on the flywheel and point the laser at it and it tells the rpm which seems to be very accurate, for high speed I use that and also a voltage and hertz meter to check ac volts and hertz. The voltage was between 7 & 8 at low speed. Can you tell me what wire 211 is. I thought from the diagrams I have It might have a problem. Also I still have not solved the charging problem. I am also suspecting the board was not fixed. Do you happen to know of a place to get these or a good place that will rebuild right? I am going to do more checking but am working on carb today as it is giving some problems now. It was sitting for awhile so you know how that goes and when I got it someone had the amp guage unhooked and I suspect they had shorted it out was the reason the board was bad as the voltage regulator was burnt up and a place on the board for the idle was burnt into. Thanks again
Reply:OK, your speed check is obviously sound.Can't find wire #211 on the schematic but then the one in the manual can be slightly different from how your particular SN machine is wired.  There can be subtle differences and I've seen it in how PCB1 is wired in the past although it involved wire #215.These folks http://www.industrialelectronics.com/htm/welding.htm should be able to help out on the board and member 7A749 has even suggesteed a specific person to talk to but his name escapes me at the moment.Edit:These folks http://www.arc-products.com/pcboards.php might be able to help on a board as well.Last edited by duaneb55; 05-21-2010 at 07:03 PM.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Hey got it to running again and checked some more and checked resistors r2 & r4 and one checked 3 ohm and the other was 4 ohm is this correct? I thought both should be 3 ohm. One of does look to have been hot. Industral electronics is who redone the board for me so I may give them a call and talk to them again. In my diagram and I am looking at the one in the im 368 manual, #211 wire is a ground from the switch and is on only at the start position, is position 15 on the plug, same plug on the switch as ground to the starter solenoid. ThanksLast edited by RRWITTER; 05-21-2010 at 07:19 PM.
Reply:Well duh!!!  Looking at the right manual but it helps to be looking at the right wiring diagram.  I knew you have the Briggs and I was looking at the Onan schematic.Yes, R2 and R4 are listed as 3ohm and I would say should test to the same value however, I can't say what the higher value would do for operational performance.Wire #211 is a 'start' signal to PCB1 but I'll have to look into it's specific purpose.  I think I have a diagram of the PCB1 somewhere.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:In case you don't find it there should an attached file for the pcb. Attached ImagesM15506.pdf (93.2 KB, 120 views)
Reply:Awesome!  The one I have is for another control design.It's a bit hard to see due to the poor image but if I'm following the logic correctly I'd have to say the start signal to PCB1 on wire #211 is to 'reset' the boards chip.  Not exactly sure just how that helps your situation though.I suggest you go ahead and contact Industrial Electronics and explain what is happening as it should give them insight into where the problem lies if in fact it's the board as it sounds.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:I think that will be my next step. Just one question, do you know where to get the resistors r2 & r4 and also do you know what they do? I appreciate your time and will post the outcome. Also thanks to ccawgc for your help.
Reply:Best place I know to look for replacement resistors is Allied Electronics http://www.alliedelec.com/search/pro...px?SKU=8954460 but Radio Shack or the like may have them as well.OK, I believe I've got the logic correct.  R2 and R4 are voltage 'trim' resistors for - you guessed it - the battery charger regulator AC input and depending on whether the engine is at low or high idle, CR2 closes or opens to direct charger supply voltage thru both R2 (unswitched) and R4 (switched) or just R2 on wire #206 to PCB1.  AC input voltage to PCB1 on wire #4B is rectified and trimed on the  board to provide charger output SCR (switched diode) gate voltage.Regulated battery charging DC voltage comes out of PCB1 on wire #208 to the ammeter and on its way to battery + on wire #209 - but  you know that already.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Thanks again I believe this might be part of the problem but don't know I did look at allied And I think they have what I need although I'm not sure about if it should be the silicone or the Vitreous Enamel or would it make a difference, If you have the time maybe you could take a look. It is 3 ohm 50 watt. I am looking at parts #'s L50J3R0E &  HL05006E3R000JE. I am a pest I know but sure would like to get this going.
Reply:Specs are virtually identical so the less expensive HL05006E3R000JE should do just fine.  Can you tell what type is currently on the unit?  Any photos?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:My wife is at work and got the camera but I will get a photo later today or in the morning and post it am going to have to be gone for awhile this afternoon.
Reply:Hi I am sending a picture of the resistors plus a couple other pictures, this is the trailer that this is going in which is a aluminum military bed that has a place for the welder a torch and a air compressor plus lots of other room for tools etc. Though you might like this project. Thanks again for your time Attached Images
Reply:Yup, I'd say the HL05006E3R000JE units will work just fine.Nice looking trailer.  Should serve you nicely.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Hey found out some new things, As far as the idle jumping up when you set the idle down to like 2200 it seems that the voltage at wire 219 is dropping and when it is showing me it is down to about 16vdc the idle goes up. also I had the kill unhooked working on the engine as I have what I think is valve noise and found that when the board is not working, no weld no ac voltage etc that I somtimes can turn the switch off and on again and the board starts working although the voltage at the switch is good. I will check again for connection on the board but am still planning to call industral electronics. also was wondering if there should be should be voltage at the capacitor when not running? Any ideas? Thanks
Reply:Wire #219 provides initial field exiter voltage from the battery upon start up.  I don't know what the specific exciter voltage should be at a given engine RPM but 16v sounds a bit low for 2200rpm.A couple other components to check that would affect field supply voltage are full wave bridge rectifiers D2 and D3 (approximately 1-1/4" square items with four wires the arrows are pointing to mounted under the previously mentioned resistors R2 and R4).  One bad diode in either one would result in low exciter supply voltage.You've said the AC power output is good but what specifically is the voltage at the receptacles at high idle?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Hey, the ac voltage is about 123vac at high idle and about 63 hertz which I think should be good. How do I check the full wave bridge rectifiers? I did swap the two but did't make a difference.
Reply:123vac is good but just the same to check them you simply check for continuity from each AC input terminals to each DC output.  Should have continuity in one direction but not the other.  If your multimeter has a diode check setting use that.Make sure the AC inputs and DC outputs are in fact connected to their correct terminals but I suspect you'll find they're OK.  Identifications may be hard to see but they should be on the body of the rectifiers.Last edited by duaneb55; 05-23-2010 at 01:21 PM.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Ok I am not sure which terminals are which but assumed ac is on each side and dc on top and bottom marked + & -, if this is correct I am getting about .5 in one direction but none in the other but I'm not too smart on this so I may not be doing it right and I'm not evn sure about the diode setting, It is a digital meter with one setting with a ohm sign and another with the beep for continuity.Terminals are right and everything sounds OK.  Just good to make sure.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:ok thanks I also thinks I might have solved the problem of not working at all sometimes as I resoldered some of the solder joints on the board and have not had the problem of no weld ac etc so far and have started it several time so may this was the problem. Do you know where to get the full wave bridges as although they seem to be ok if they don't cost too much I might replace just to be sure but I don't know the specs etc. Also how about the field capacitor should it have any voltage not running, I don't know if this has anything to do with this or not but thought maybe it should have stored voltage. I certanly appreciate your time on thisLast edited by RRWITTER; 05-23-2010 at 03:11 PM.
Reply:Hi just wondered if anyone has had to buy the rectifiers and the capacitor for these and know where to get.  Also how do you check the capacitor? Thanks