Best 220 mig for the money?

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I'm looking for some advise. I got a fabrication business and I was really considering getting a mig welder over my stick welder. It just seems like it would be quicker to weld stuff up if I had a mig. No chipping.and not needing to roll up and unroll the leads and drag them around.ect. It would take alot less time to weld something up. Anyways reasons don't matter. I figured I'd ask the guys who've used/owned a couple of different mig welders and could point me in a good direction before I buy. What's a decent mig for the price?Preferred brand?Migs to avoid?Thanks
Reply:I'll start with what's best suited to your application and work down from there.  You have to view your equipment as an investment into the future of your company.  You don't want to cheap out and have to buy it again in a short time.  Spend the money now on a quality machine that is built to last for your type of industrial use and you will be much happier in the end.For your type of use, you'll want a shop sized, industrial grade machine with a high duty cycle, so it will last for many years of continuous use.  You want to look at machines from Miller's CP, Delta or Dimension lines, like a CP302, Delta Weld, Delta Fab, or Dimension 302/452, or Shopmate 300, with a 70-series feeder,  or Lincoln's CV or DC lines, maybe a CV305 or 400, or a DC400, with an LN7 feeder.  Some of the above machines are 3-phase-only, and some are 1 & 3 phase.  The Shopmate is 1-phase.  Some are also multi-process, can do both wire and stick (Dimensions, Shopmate and Lincoln DC's). These heavy industrial shop machines are quite a few cuts above the common migs you see in the home centers or even on the showroom floor of the local welding supply.  They are heavily built machines with very high (usually 100%) duty cycle ratings.  The feeders are industrial grade as well.  These are kind of machines you will buy once and still be using in your shop 20 years from now, on a day to day basis, with various employees operating them and not being easy on them at all.As for the smaller shop migs with built in feeders, only the larger end of scale would be acceptable for your use.  A Millermatic 252 or Lincoln Powermig 255 will be the best bang for the buck and still be able to hold up, within their rated output range.Stay out of the home hobbyist class of machines, such as the portable sized ones, like Millermatics 140/180/211 or Powermig 140c/180c or the Hobart Handler series.  They simply don't have anywhere near the duty cycle and output you need for your type of use and are not built with constant industrial use in mind.   You'll find this out quickly when the machine over-temps and times out in the middle of your first few heavier welds.  You won't even get to the part where the feed motor can't keep up and smokes or the whole machine just up and dies.The Millermatic 212 or Powermig 216 would be the smallest size machines you should even be considering and then only if their output reasonably exceeds the size of joints you're typically welding.  For the small price difference though, the 250-class machines are a much better choice.Stay with Miller or Lincoln, as both companies have good service and support their older machines with parts and tech support for many years.  Most local machine repair shops are experienced servicing them and getting parts is quicker.  Miller and Lincoln both have several models in their lines to choose from as well as all the peripheral equipment to go along with the power supply, so you get just what you need now and can grow into in the future as well.Last edited by DesertRider33; 10-12-2010 at 10:42 AM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I recently added a Lincoln Pro-MIG 180 (220V) machine to my shop and have been very happy with it. I certainly am not a whiz bang welder but am gaining fast in part because this machine is very easy to use.I have a full review of it at the link below if more on its features would be of help.Lincoln Pro-MIG 180 ReviewTom Hintz, publisherwww.newmetalworker.comLincoln Pro Mig 180Lincoln AC 255Determination
Reply:DR33 nailed it.
Reply:Desert Rider has it right.   The typical portable welders are not going to cut it for a fabrication business, duty cycle too low, just not intended for production.  His other comments also make sense.You did not say what thickness of metal that you work with, but of course that affects how much power you need.   I would determine the thickest metal that you are likely to use, and then use that to size the machine.   If you mostly weld 1/8 inch and 1/4 inch, and only occasionally weld 1/2 inch plate, you can just plan to stick weld the thicker material.For example, for 1/4 inch steel, the Miller welding calculator suggests 200 amps for MIG.   Obviously a machine that maxes out at 210 amps is too close to the edge, and will not have the duty cycle that you need at 200 amps.   A 250 amp class machine might work out.  A Miller 252 will run 200 amps at 60% duty cycle, so that sounds within reason for 1/4 inch steel.  And then you could stick weld the occasional piece of 3/8 or 1/2 inch plate.  But if you plan to weld a lot of 3/8 inch steel, you need more than a 250 amp class machine.You need to research how large a machine that you need for the work you plan to do, but it is not going to be a portable 180 amp machine.  Note that the hobby class machines are rated at 30% duty cycle, unrealistic for a production shop, while the more serious machines are rated at 60% duty cycle, more realistic.RichardLast edited by raferguson; 10-12-2010 at 03:12 PM.Sculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:1/8,3/16 ,and 1/4 are usually what I work with. 1/4" for gussets and winch plates and stuff like that. 1/8 for high lift jack mounts, light tabs, ect.. And 3/16 is for bumpers mostlyI hate the fact that I got to unroll 20' of leads ea time I want to tack something, carrying around rods, walking back and fourth changing settings. Having to stop and change rods when welding. Beat flux off ect..ect.. I plan on making a stand for mig. Roll it to the spot I need.im thinking I'll either hang the 220 plug in the middle of the shop or make a spool for it. Don't know till I get it.I'm not wanting this mig to make just make it easier/faster for me to get things done,this thing is replacing my stick welder.I'll still have my stick welder, just won't be the one using itLast edited by fabman92; 10-12-2010 at 05:59 PM.
Reply:Millermatic 212Lincoln 216Yes the HH187 and MM211 will do what you want but they both have short Whips and it will be a PIA having to move the cart around.The extra 5' does make a differenceEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Sounds like it's a small shop with only one welder and intermittent use of the machine.  I would go for a Millermatic 252 or Powermig 255 for your intended use, if buying new.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:DR I'm somewhat surprised your 1st list didn't include the XMT 304 and a feeder, from miller. For a small fab shop it's probably more mig than he needs, but the ability to do stick and tig as well as mig makes it a perfect machine. Other than that I think you nailed it..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:all you wirefeed/mig enthusiasts complain about having to drag lead..seems to me you will end up dragging machine...
Reply:I never said anything about draggin mig leads around. I've got a stick welder with 50+' leads have to drag at least 20' out everytime I work on something.can you not read or what?
Reply:See what I have for welders. I use the MM 175 for most  metal under 1/4". The thunderbolt gets used for anything over 1/4". I like stick for the thicker stuff because I know I'm getting good penetration, hence I know it's as strong a weld as I can make. Of course I'm not making a living w/ my welding eqp't.                                    JMHO,                                               MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Sounds like it's a small shop with only one welder and intermittent use of the machine.  I would go for a Millermatic 252 or Powermig 255 for your intended use, if buying new.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWDR I'm somewhat surprised your 1st list didn't include the XMT 304 and a feeder, from miller. For a small fab shop it's probably more mig than he needs, but the ability to do stick and tig as well as mig makes it a perfect machine. Other than that I think you nailed it.
Reply:Originally Posted by fabman92I use the machine all the time.my shop is 30'x30' with a 20'x30 front  awning and matching rear awning. Everything has got a slab except under the back awning. The whole side of the shop has a slab as well 50'x20 is my guess.
Reply:I was just thinking for what you would spend new on a MM252, you could get a nice used XMT304 and feeder and have more power and options than with the stand alone unit in the long run. Thats the way I'm looking to go when I move up to a bigger mig. I don't really NEED the DC tig or stick with my Syncro 200, but I wouldn't pass on it for that reason..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by fabman92I never said anything about draggin mig leads around. I've got a stick welder with 50+' leads have to drag at least 20' out everytime I work on something.can you not read or what?
Reply:i agree,  if buying used,  its hard to beat a xmt 304.XMT 350 MPa, w/D52-DTA 185 TSWHarris of
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI was just thinking for what you would spend new on a MM252, you could get a nice used XMT304 and feeder and have more power and options than with the stand alone unit in the long run. Thats the way I'm looking to go when I move up to a bigger mig. I don't really NEED the DC tig or stick with my Syncro 200, but I wouldn't pass on it for that reason.
Reply:Just buy a 350P and call it done. It will pretty much do anything any other mig will do, and usually better at that. 400 amps and only using 60 out of the wall.You can run a spoolgun or a push-pull later if you need to.You can run pulse spray on thin aluminum or steel or stainless.You can weld THICK metal in a single pass.Or as I did today you can use it to fill a wide gap on paper thin stuff.I am so glad I got rid of the little mig and got the big one.....it would be hard to turn the little one way hotter but the big one will run way down low just as sweet.Miller Dynasty 700Miller 350P with Aluma-pro push-pullMiller 280 Dynasty with expansion card Dynasty 200 DXMigMax 215 Enuff power and hand tools to create one of anything..... but mass produce nothing!!!
Reply:Since I'm so bored today...Here are the going 'street' prices on various Miller machines that we have been discussing.  These prices are from www.cyberweld.com, which has proven to be a pretty accurate site as far as realistic pricing.  Not always the cheapest, but never the most expensive either.  They're typically in the low price end of the scale and usually a safe bet on finding a good internet deal on most Miller machines.Millermatic 212 & gun... $1588Millermatic 252 & M25 gun... $2118Millermatic 252 & M25 gun, with Spoolmatic 30A spool gun... $3257Millermatic 350P & Q300 gun... $3699 Millermatic 350P with AlumaPro push-pull gun... $5405Millermatic Reach 25' accessory wire feeder for above machines... $990Inverter multi-process machines-XMT 304 CC/CV (no wire feeder or gun)... $3315XMT 350 CC/CV (no wire feeder or gun)... $3610XMT 456 CC/CV (no wire feeder or gun)... $5148Wire feeders and spool guns-S22A wire feeder w/ Q300 gun... $906S74DX wire feeder w/ Q400 gun... $2218Suitcase 12RC wire feeder w/ meters & Q300 gun... $1818XR-D Control wire feeder with 25' AlumaPro push-pull torch... $3698Spoolmatic 30A spool gun with WC24 controller... $1189Transformer shop migs-CP 302 with S22A wire feeder & Q300 gun... $3765Delta Fab with S24A wire feeder & Q300 gun... $3977Delta Weld 302 with S74D wire feeder & Q400 gun... $4978Transformer multi-process machines-Shopmate 300DX with S22A wire feeder & Q300 gun... $3450Dimension 302 with S74D wire feeder & Q400 gun... $5818MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Relax Frances, it was a Joke! that's why he put the laughing smilie at the end of his Post.
Reply:So what are some used mig hot spots?
Reply:You might look at Sutton-Garten. I've picked up some used stuff from them in the past.http://www.sutton-garten.com/item.aspx?id=82Steve here (7A749) sometimes has some used stuff as far as power sources and feeders. He does nice work. Several guys have picked up some nice machines from him, and his refubed units are top notch.Weldersales here might also have some used stuff also. I know guys mention him from time to time.Ebay, CL, I use searchtempest.com to check other CL's in the area that you might not be aware of.http://www.searchtempest.com/.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:No mention of ESAB Migmaster or Thermal Arc Fabricator?  both good machines with high duty cycles.   The MM250 is a 280 amp machine and has a nice smooth arc and will spray arc easily...   Posting your budget for want you are willing to spend would help...  I actually have recently got hooked on the Powcon machines. I am running my 200sm with the ESAB 300AVS suitcase...    if you get a voltage sensing feeder or suitcase you have the option of running it off your stick welder too.   not sure what stick machine you have but a suitcase like an LN25 or 12VS could be the ticket for you as you already have a CC power sourceTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250wholly resurrection there batmanDynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:I say just get a Lincoln powermig 256 or 350 mp, They are good self contained welders with enough power to weld what you want. Also the miller 252 and 350p have very good reputations. The 350mp Lincoln can also do dc stick and tig. My dad owns the 350mp with a push pull gun for aluminum work and its the cats meow.
Reply:I'll  bet that sometime in the last 6 years, the o.p. made a welder purchase.Eventual master of the obvious, practitioner of "stream of consciousness fabrication".  P.S. I edit almost every post because because I'm posting from my phone and my fingers sometimes move faster than my brain.
Reply:I have a MM200, great machine, used daily in my shop. Then I bought an XMT304 and a nice feeder. While I still use the MM200, my XMT is now the daily machine. If you end up looking for a feeder, I have a Miller 60 series I may part with for a good price. PM me if interested.
Reply:If I were you I would shop for a Millermatic 200 in good shape. Get one with the 14 pin socket. The machine is bullet proof and will weld anything you want up to 260 amps.  I got one new in 1987 and it is great. I have seen them on cragslist from $250-$1000. It can run a spool gun if needed. It is one of the best migs ever made. It might not look fancy but I would put it up against anything in its class that I have ever seen.  I have welded 1" plate with it and have welded sheet metal. It can spray arc .035 wire all day if needed. I can not say enough about the MM200.  If by some fluke you did damage it just go get another one , they are cheap to buy used and were very popular so there are many still around. get it and a 50ft power cord and never look back. The only thing I have done to mine is get a new 300 amp gun with a 15ft cable. it came with a 150 amp gun and I burned it up but it took me a long time to damage it. I have also run a fair amout of flux core through it and it worked great with that too.Last edited by thegary; 02-11-2016 at 09:47 PM.
Reply:This thread was started in 10/2010, OP has probably has it figured it out by now.
Reply:whoops didnt even see the date on this thread. Hopefully the o.p got it figured out by now
Reply:Lincoln 255 & 305 are right on but a 350 amp Lincoln or Miller have more going for them with separate feeders. The best value is a HTP 2400 1500.00 out the door and runs .045 all day long.