Tips for tack welding with E6013?

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While 6013 isn't ideal of tacking, it's all I can get for now. When tacking (for example, the ends of a T joint), I have two problems:1. The weld metal builds up so fast that it's hard to ensure penetration. That is, I end up with a big blob of weld metal that may or may not have any fusion with the base metal.2. The aforementioned blob is just big, so when I make a full pass, starting/stopping at a blob is difficult. It's hard to get a nice bead that goes smoothly from the joint to the blob with no gap in between.I think my goal should be to increase heat and decrease deposition. Is this done by using a thicker electrode, or by using amps that are too low for the electrode so less weld metal gets deposited?Another approach could be to make very fast, high-heat tacks, and just redo it if there's not fusion. (But this is like buying lottery tickets, since I don't think good fusion happens that quickly.)
Reply:What thickness metal are you welding and what size rod are you using?I am thinking you may be able to go with a smaller rod, more heat in a more focused area, less rod to deposit material.Bigger rod heat will be their to, but it will deposit more metal and can make it a cold weld because it cannot heat it all as well.See what others say to, I just play around at home so I could be completely opposite with what I am thinking.But post the material and rod size.
Reply:what size metal, what size rod, how many amps. I am guessing you are long arcing it. 6013 needs to be run with a very tight arc gap. Basically touching the flux to the work piece.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:3mm thick T joint: lots of heat dissipation. 2.0 mm (5/64") electrodes with 45-60A. I just bought some 2.6 mm electrodes that can go up to 100A (probably more for a short time), but I'm worried they will just deposit faster and not solve the problem. Originally Posted by Louie1961I am guessing you are long arcing it. 6013 needs to be run with a very tight arc gap. Basically touching the flux to the work piece.
Reply:Lay a piece of metal next to where you want the tack, strike the arc on it and weld over to the corner you want to tack.After you get more practice you won't need to do this - and remember to run your tacks hot.Advice above is good, flux should be touching - especially on a fillet weld - if the rod sticks doing this, turn the amps up until it stays lit.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:You are correct, 6013 is hard to get a flat tack. Go to the high side of the map range for the electrode you are suing and it helps get a flatter tack. I always grind my tacks down before running a weld pass so the weld bead is a consistent size when welding over the tacks.ChrisAuction Addict
Reply:When tacking with stick I always crank up my heat for my tacks. Then turn my amps down to normal for the final weld. You have to have extra heat when tacking. I don't care for 6013 rod, never liked it because of the poor penetration and very heavy slag it produces. The heavy slag is not helping you tack either.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Thanks guys, that all sounds like good advice. But I still wonder, will using a thicker rod give me more deposition relative to heat, or less? This chart implies that thicker rods have less deposition per AMP (find the 180 A lines), but that's not conclusive, since the heat should be transferred less efficiently with less weld metal passing through the arc and being deposited (less heat per amp when deposition is reduced).Last edited by piojo; 11-12-2014 at 10:00 PM.
Reply:its not the rod thickness. thicker rods need more heat. its not about deposition per amp. You can't run a 3mm rod at the same amperage as a 2mm rod. doesn't work. Your line of reasoning is not correct nor productive. You use thicker rods for thicker materiels and adjust the amps to get the correct wet in. Thinner rods for thinner material, at lower amps. You could actually run a 3.0 mm rod on 3.0 mm material, but you will need higher amps, all other things being equal.  That being said I think you are running those 2mm rods at too low of a heat setting. I would run them up at 70 amps for tackingMiller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961its not the rod thickness. thicker rods need more heat. its not about deposition per amp. You can't run a 3mm rod at the same amperage as a 2mm rod. doesn't work. Your line of reasoning is not correct nor productive. You use thicker rods for thicker materiels and adjust the amps to get the correct wet in.
Reply:Tack with 6011.                          MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Rod angle is important with 6013 to keep the slag from getting ahead of the puddle.This image lifted from the lincoln SMAW welding guide.millermatic 130XPharbour freight 180 amp mig with added caps.hobart stickmate ac/dcpowerarc 200
Reply:What polarity are you using?
Reply:For 1/4 and thicker material i tack with 6010....Bonding is assured that way no matter what the condition of the material and tack are flat if done correctlyand restarting the rod is no problem when one handed tackingBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:I'm what you may call a long time beginner since I've had no schooling in welding but ratherhave lernt from the web and the experts here and until now haven't practicedwith necessary continuity (and swapping from stick to mig to tig  but I will give a comment: I think your search for  increased heat and decreased deposition is achieved by turning up the amps. My problem used to be that I was all up tight about amps settings and actual welding. Luckily my neighbor has had some experience with stick and his advice was always to turn up the amps and lay enough bead. What you will find when practicing some tacks with the amps turned up is that there's virtually no scratching the rod - it just startsand the tack is deposited (split second is all you need). If you're building upthe tack, the amps are probably too low. It's funny, with a bit of practice,I can tack as if I know something   With the right amps setting ,rod angle, deposition/speedyou will also get a very nice bead (slag comes off in one piece and the weld looks like stainless(well, you know what I mean  ) and fewer problems with slag inclusion. OK, I use a fancyTIG machine with several settings for stick which may assist me but I'm still a beginnerand see large improvements once you've dialed in the right amps.Last edited by vjeko; 11-13-2014 at 03:49 PM.
Reply:One other point you may want to keep in mind, piojo - where you've put your tacks on your t-joint (as seen in your photograph) will make it easier for the vertical plate to lean away from the vertical and get sucked toward the heat.  Try tacking on the junction of the edges of the plates, not in the junctions of the flat faces.                            -Marty-
Reply:sThose tacks are cold, very cold. I think 6013 is easy to tack with, more friendly than 7018 for instance. 7014 is also good. I run about 70 Amps on 2mm Esab 43.32 which is a 6013. Esab says 50-80 Amps - http://products.esab.com/Templates/T041.asp?id=2461  But it depends on the machine as well, who know what the actual amps are regardless of what the dial says... As mentioned before you can run your tacks a lot hotter than what you weld with later. The steel is cold when you tack and it's hot when you start welding. That's a huge difference for the amps you need.Electrode must be showed in the L of the fillet. I don't scratch to start, I peck and wiggle. Do whatever works.  If you want the electrode to start straight way you can also weld on a piece of scrap close to your tack, stop welding and then quickly move the electrode and start your tack while the end is still glowing red from the previous weld. I don't think that is all needed in this case though. Just another technique to use occationally.Last edited by Pete.S.; 11-15-2014 at 03:15 PM.