100% Argon on Steel

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Guys can I use 100% argon with my MIG and do an adequate job welding mild steel (or do I have to use 75/25)?
Reply:You can try, but I doubt very much you'll be happy with result.  You'll need to use much higher voltage, maybe more than your welding power supply can provide; if you're using a smaller hobby machine.  The arc will be very unstable compared to what you're used to with 75/25.  You'll also find that penetration suffers.  The CO2 in the mix aids in achieving good penetration into the base metal.  The oxygen created when the CO2 breaks down in the arc also helps stabilize the welding arc.I don't recommend it for joining work.  If you're doing overlay or cladding, like depositing a layer of stainless steel ontop of carbon steel, then there's more to discuss.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Dab, you always provide good insight, do agree or disagree with this guys(friendofyours) use of straight argon?http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...t=100%25+argon
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3Dab, you always provide good insight, do agree or disagree with this guys(friendofyours) use of straight argon?http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...t=100%25+argon
Reply:Looking at the pictures in post #29 of the link you referenced, lots of large diameter spatter sprayed on the plates from those welds.  This might be OK, or might not, depending on the application.  If it's not, and you factor in the cost in time and consumables to clean those up, using an Ar/CO2 gas mix which doesn't make spatter might make better sense financially.Also look at 'friendofyours' earlier posts for the settings used.  Post #16 he mentions running at 31V and 410-440 IPM with 100% argon and 0.045" solid wire.  'Friend of yours' is welding 3/8" and 1/2" plate.  Can your welder produce that kind of voltage?  If not, there's no way you'll get the arc needed to produce a similar weld.  Likewise, 0.045" wire at 400 inches per minute is about 300 amps welding current, depending on the stickout used.  Is your welder capable of producing 300amps at a reasonable duty cycle?  If not, then this won't work for you.Are you welding sheet metal?  If so, you'll never get this to work.  Even spraying 0.023" wire will require you to move faster than most folks can weld in a straight line; and you're still probably going to blow large holes in thin material.Moonrise makes some very good points in his posts on the thread you mentioned.  The penetration profile using high argon content shielding gas is very deep and narrow.  IT's very easy to miss the root of the joint in a fillet weld; and have a defective weld as a result, using 100% argon shielding gas with semi-auto MIG.I didn't say it was impossible to use 100% argon in my original reply.  But for the typical welder with hobby equipment probably doesn't have the right stuff to make it work.  IT also takes a talented, practiced welder to pull off sound welds because of the weld profile produced by solid wire and 100% argon gas.  Lastly, spray arc transfer is generally only suitable for welding plate 3/16" thick or more, in the flat or horizontal positions.  Welding vertical or overhead normally requires a very expensive pulsed MIG power supply to run spray arc in these positions.  (Note there are exceptions to every rule, but we're speaking very generally here)I'm not sure why this fellow's employer would choose to run 100% argon in their shop.  But it can be done with the right welding equipment and positioning equipment to put the joints being welded in the flat or horizontal position.  But for the typcial guy posting on this forum there are better shielding gas options out there.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Thanks guys for the input. I do not desire to weld with one gas, I have and use the appropiate gas for the materials I weld, but there are people here with a lot more technical knowledge than I have and now I have a better understanding.
Reply:Not to hijack this thread but; can I use straight Argon for TIG DC steel? Ive been doing it for the last week.  One thing I noticed about Argon vs Helium on steel is: Argon makes an arc but you have to wait for a puddle. The Helium makes a puddle when I get an arc.
Reply:Hello Insaneride, Argon, Helium, Argon/Helium mix, any three will "work" for tig on steel. Likely the most economical and widely used: Argon on steel, the other two on steel are really overkill and not economically a good choice. Advantage with straight Helium and DC tig, possible to weld aluminum, particularly thick sections. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Is your 100% argon cheaper than 75/25?Arcon Workhorse 300MSPowcon 400SMTPowcon SM400 x 2Powcon SM3001968 SA200 Redface1978 SA250 DieselMiller Super 32P FeederPre 1927 American 14" High Duty LatheK&T Milwaukee 2H Horizontal MillBryan
Reply:Originally Posted by wannab1Guys can I use 100% argon with my MIG and do an adequate job welding mild steel (or do I have to use 75/25)?
Reply:Thanks for that answer aevald. One thing I noticed about prepping or lack of is, I get longitudinal cracks. I believe this is from hydrogen imbrittlement. Anyone have any opinion on this? BTW wannaB1, forgive me for hijacking your thread
Reply:Insane, it's ok. I'm learning with every response about welding!
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideThanks for that answer aevald. One thing I noticed about prepping or lack of is, I get longitudinal cracks. I believe this is from hydrogen imbrittlement. Anyone have any opinion on this? BTW wannaB1, forgive me for hijacking your thread
Reply:Ok guys.  I think I get the message that as a hobby welder with hobby equipment I will have to stick to the 75/25 mix on steel to get the correct results.  Thanks all for the input.  I'm learning!
Reply:Straight CO2 is a cheaper option. Works great except on really thin gauge.Miller Dynasty 200DXMiller 252 Miller 250xMiller Syncrowave 250Miller AEAD200 LegendMiller 375 Xtreme plasmaLincoln WeldPak 100Victor O/A
Reply:Pure argon will work on mig and steel, but it sucks.Try adding CO2 or CO2 alone. I mix my own CO2 and argon so I can get any mixture between 100% and 0%.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonAre your parts wet? You are not using fluxcore or dualshield are you?
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideShovelon, can I use CO2 with regular flux core?
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideI missed this earlier. When you say wet,  do you mean that I didnt let the acetone dry? I do try to rush things and try to use the gas to help evaporate the acetone but this could be my problem. Acetone does seem to have hydrogen as a key ingredient.Shovelon, can I use CO2 with regular flux core?
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveFrom Lincoln:"Not only is the use of any type of shielding gas not necessary for Innershield® NR-212, or any other type of self-shielded, flux-cored electrode (FCAW-S), it should not be used.  FCAW-S (i.e. Innershield®) electrodes have a tightly controlled and unique core composition and interaction with the atmosphere (compared to gas-shielded, flux-cored wires).  They rely on the oxidizing effect of air to produce the desired weld deposit and desired resulting mechanical properties.  When you use a shielding gas, you block the arc from the air and prevent the oxidizing reactions.  This results in a much higher level of alloys, such as aluminum, in the weld metal, which produces a brittle and crack sensitive weld deposit.    While it is likely that the shielding gas improves the stability and operator appeal of NR-212, it also results in an unacceptable weld deposit."
Reply:Definitely excellent information Dave, and to go along with this sort of information folks should pay close attention to the recommended wire stick-out for self-shielded wires as this is directly related to the preheating of the wire/fluxes and provides proper flux activation and correct welding characteristics in the finished weld deposit. Best regards, AllanLast edited by aevald; 11-14-2014 at 04:32 PM.Reason: to clarify the information that I was addingaevald
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideI missed this earlier. When you say wet,  do you mean that I didnt let the acetone dry? I do try to rush things and try to use the gas to help evaporate the acetone but this could be my problem. Acetone does seem to have hydrogen as a key ingredient.Shovelon, can I use CO2 with regular flux core?
Reply:Shovelon, no waterMinnesotaDave, I tried ER71T with straight CO2 like Mad welder suggested. I was in straight polarity for FCAW. The O2 must have given the FCAW a boost. It seemed hotter when I used a longer stick out but gave me a lower profile weld compared to longer stick out without CO2. The CO2 also seemed to leave a cleaner faster weld but thats about all I noticed.mad welder, have you tried reverse and straight polarity? I may try reverse today.  Im using RADNOR ER71T g,s .035What wire type and polarity do you guys use for dualshield? Dualshield wire and AC
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideShovelon, no waterMinnesotaDave, I tried ER71T with straight CO2 like Mad welder suggested. I was in straight polarity for FCAW. The O2 must have given the FCAW a boost. It seemed hotter when I used a longer stick out but gave me a lower profile weld compared to longer stick out without CO2. The CO2 also seemed to leave a cleaner faster weld but thats about all I noticed.mad welder, have you tried reverse and straight polarity? I may try reverse today.  Im using RADNOR ER71T g,s .035What wire type and polarity do you guys use for dualshield? Dualshield wire and AC