Plasma Help

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My partner and I want to purchase a plasma cutter. Understand that we are not interested in purchasing things more than once, so the BEST plasma cutter for what we want to do is required the first time. We will be needing to cut 1/2" on occasion, but mostly 3/8 or less. We need a VERY accurate cut, very nice, smooth action with as much idiot proofing as necessary since we are amatuers who need all the help we can get! We have looked at the Lincoln 625 and 825, the Miller 625 and 825 and the Thermal Dynamics 1000. What do you guys really think? If you had it to do all over again, what would your purchase be? Thanks all!
Reply:Hypertherm Powermax 65www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:Originally Posted by mechanic416Hypertherm Powermax 65
Reply:Yup, what they both said.  I have an older PM 1000 G3 and it is a monster,. the 45 is even badder yet.BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:Originally Posted by J-WWhat he said^^^^^
Reply:We bought a pm 65 for our first plasma. We were thinking pm45 but were convinced by people here to go bigger it was a good decision  I have cut over 1" with it and it flies through1/4 and 14 gauge. I haven't tried the fine cut consumables yet but for straight cuts its plenty good for meMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Originally Posted by DeveMy partner and I want to purchase a plasma cutter. Understand that we are not interested in purchasing things more than once, so the BEST plasma cutter for what we want to do is required the first time. We will be needing to cut 1/2" on occasion, but mostly 3/8 or less.
Reply:Another ditto for HyperthermLincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:The hypertherm units are good machines.Don't be afraid to check out ESAB or Thermal Dynamics. They are good cutters as well.  I'd stay away from all others.If you want to cut 1/2", you need a 40 amp minimum cutter.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeThe hypertherm units are good machines.Don't be afraid to check out ESAB or Thermal Dynamics. They are good cutters as well.  I'd stay away from all others.If you want to cut 1/2", you need a 40 amp minimum cutter.
Reply:A little more info will help make the advice more accurate!-What type and thickness of material will you be cutting the majority of the time?-Mechanized application...or hand held?-If mechanized....what type of machine will be driving the torch.Hypertherm is the largest producer of plasma cutters....with hand held systems from 30 to 200 amps (thin gauge to 2") and mechanized systems from 45 to 800 amps (thin gauge to 6-1/4"). All systems are designed and built in Hanover, NH, USA by employee owners.Jim Colt Originally Posted by DeveMy partner and I want to purchase a plasma cutter. Understand that we are not interested in purchasing things more than once, so the BEST plasma cutter for what we want to do is required the first time. We will be needing to cut 1/2" on occasion, but mostly 3/8 or less. We need a VERY accurate cut, very nice, smooth action with as much idiot proofing as necessary since we are amatuers who need all the help we can get! We have looked at the Lincoln 625 and 825, the Miller 625 and 825 and the Thermal Dynamics 1000. What do you guys really think? If you had it to do all over again, what would your purchase be? Thanks all!
Reply:Don't waste your time or money on anything other than Hypertherm.I have the Powermax 45, and it will pierce 1/2" all day long, and cut up to 1" at 5 ipm with anedge start.http://www.hypertherm.com/en/Product...powermax45.jspMiller Synchrowave 180 SDLincoln PowerMig 255Hypertherm Powermax 45Torchmate 2x2Victor O/A
Reply:As you are buying new, I would agree that HT is a great choice.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I can not argue against the HyperTherm, but I wonder what is so great about it compared to mm Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster?Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:Here are some of the reasons why the Hypertherm units are a good choice...there are quite a few more.- Conical flow technology provides increased arc energy density while also improving nozzle orifice cooling. Squarer cuts, dramatically longer consumable life.- Spring electrode torch (Powermax65, 85 and 105 and all Duramax torch upgrades) eliminates moving parts in the torch...improves long term torch reliability and minimizes misfiring.-Auto gas control aut compensates for changes in inlet air pressure (compressor cycling) and auto adjusts for different nozzle sizes, amperage and torch lead length. (PMX65, 85, 105)-Boost conditioning power supply design compensates for different input voltages and brownouts...units operate the same on different input power conditions. (rural power, generators, etc.)-All Hypertherm units conform to strict CSA or CE safety certifications. Every system goes through a full duty cycle, multi hour burn-in test before shipping to ensure that "infant mortality" issues are addressed.-Designed, built, tested and supported by Hypertherm employee owners in Hanover and Lebanon , NH, USA plant locations.-These units are designed to perform as well or better than any other systems in their power class in terms of cut quality, cut speed, consumable life and reliability. Jim Colt Originally Posted by Joker11I can not argue against the HyperTherm, but I wonder what is so great about it compared to mm Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster?
Reply:I have the Powermax 30 and love it but still a machine is only as good as the people behind it. I think Jim Colt and the Hypertherm people are top notch. If you look around on this board you will see other companies promoting their plasma cutters, but mostly slinging mud.  I think that turns people off, it did me anyway!. Spend a little more & get a Hypertherm an American made product, You will be glad You did !!
Reply:How about some cost per ft. info on a , 0.50 MS  using a Hypertherm 85. (consumable cost) Edge angularity (from top to bottom in thousands)  on a 1 inch hole, also in 0.50 MS. (Standard) Plasma-cam type of machine. That way there is something to go by, other then best- better then sliced bread info.. As far as being employe owned,  I wonder is I am better off buying Colfax stock, and then support Esab, Then I am part of that company. Last edited by Brand X; 08-15-2012 at 01:40 PM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:BrandX whats your tripYou gotta beef spit it outYour sounding like the everlast fanboys...gotta knock others to promote there own failed productI'm not saying esab is a failed product either ...DJ likes his esab machine and that's good enough for meBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11BrandX whats your tripYou gotta beef spit it outYour sounding like the everlast fanboys...gotta knock others to promote there own failed productI'm not saying esab is a failed product either ...DJ likes his esab machine and that's good enough for me
Reply:I too am a little taken aback by the 1000$ difference in price between Hypertherm and Thermal Dynamics 100 amp models. (Amazon.com) but when I hear they are American made, private employee owned company, it matters a great deal to me because for one, when employees own the company, they arent union members, they are very economy conscious, business saavy individuals who understand how important it is to actually stay in business. I do NOT like the difference in price at all, and I think they are stretching it a bit, but the new Hypertherm 65 really seems to be the ticket for our needs and since it is so popular, consumables will be readily available. When you own the company, you get it.. in that you understand that every dime you give to yourself within reason is a dime taken directly out of company profits used to invest in machinery, more employees, etc. I REALLY like the Lincoln Welding model. I dont think their plasma's are as good as Hypertherm tho. Thanks to everyone for the replies. The new 65 models will be out Sept 7. Cant wait!
Reply:In my mind there a two brands of plasma cutters, Hypertherm and Thermal Dynamics. Hypertherm are slightly more expensive and the consumables are a tad more spendy. There are other brands but they don't work for me, either overated units ( miller/lincolns) or consumables are a PIA to get and not stocked (ESAB) locally.The Hypertherm model  65, and the Thermal Dynamics 82 are both solid machines.I bought the Thermal Dynamics 82 as it was $500 cheaper.They both make a model smaller which is cheaper ( hypertherm 45, thermal dynamics 52 )the question only you can answer is how clean of pierce cuts do you need in 1/2 if you look at the smaller machines.
Reply:I have detailed cost per foot spreadsheets that cover a variety of metal thicknesses for almost every Hypertherm system. These spreadsheets cover total cutting cost....which will include power, the cost of producing compressed air, labor and overhead, secondary operations, cut speed, consumable life, etc are also included.  It can also be broken down into just consumable cost per foot.  I am not at my system that has that file at the moment...so I'll post it later.Hole taper....I can simply cut a hole in my home shop later this morning...I'll take pics and measure the taper. Hypertherm does have hole taper data...but only for our high definition class systems.On the "employee owned" comment...not sure what you are getting at. Hypertherm is a privately owned company...stock is not available for purchase....is only distributed to the employees.  This certainly heightens satisfaction levels of every employee...and makes everyone want to participate in producing the best products efficiently. The better job we all do...turns into more rewards in terms of profit sharing as well as retirement accounts (stock value)I'll post some more info later today of hole quality and cost per foot.Jim Colt Originally Posted by Brand XHow about some cost per ft. info on a , 0.50 MS  using a Hypertherm 85. (consumable cost) Edge angularity (from top to bottom in thousands)  on a 1 inch hole, also in 0.50 MS. (Standard) Plasma-cam type of machine. That way there is something to go by, other then best- better then sliced bread info.. As far as being employe owned,  I wonder is I am better off buying Colfax stock, and then support Esab, Then I am part of that company.
Reply:PM sent to Jim Colt.Thanks.
Reply:I am trying to post a chart on here....in order to show cutting costs for different thicknesses with a Powermax85...having a little trouble converting a spreadsheet into a format that will post!Anyway...the cost of cutting of 1/2" steel with a Powermax85 on 1/2" steel....with all factors considered .....labor, overhead, cost of compressed air, cut speed, cost of electricity, cost of consumables, etc., is $0.20  (20 cents) per foot. RThis number will vary depending on the productivity of the user...various fixed costs such as labor and overhead, consumables cost, consumable life.  I'll post the chart for the 85 as soon as I can figure out how!Jim Colt Attached ImagesLast edited by jimcolt; 08-16-2012 at 11:40 AM.
Reply:Just threw a piece of 1/2" steel on the table...here's an untouched 1" hole cut on a PlasmaCam DHC2 at book specs (from the Hypertherm Powermax operators manual).I was doing some 45 amp cutting.....had a nozzle in the torch with over 600 starts....programmed a 2" rectangle with a 1" hole. I left the kerf width dialed in that I had been using on some 1/4" steel....so dimensions are off slightly.  I wonder if any other air plasma will cut this well after 600 starts?The 2 " dimension measures 1.989 at the top of the cut and 2.01 at the bottom, so there is approximately .015" taper per side on the outside dimension.  The hole measures 1.016 at the top...and .960 at the bottom....so there is a .0280" taper per side (bottom diameter is .056" smaller than the top). Hole is very round, has a bit of divot at the lead in point. I used a straight lead in, no lead out.As always...I'm here to help with plasma questions (because I am a part owner of Hypertherm)....any others!  And yes....I know the slats in my table need cleaning....too busy to do maintenance!So...according to the cut charts that I have for 45 amp cutting it cost about 45 cents to cut that 2" rectangle with a 1" hole. If I did the same part at 85 amps...it would cost a bit less than 20 cents. If I did the same part with a high definition plasma at 130 amps (the hole would have virtually no taper...the edges would have minimal hardening) it would cost about 16 cents....and I would cut 3 or 4 parts in the same time it took to cut 1 at 45 amps.Power can buy lower costs and productivity...as can technology (high definition plasma). So...reducing your cutting costs and improving quality costs more up front (purchase price) but saves more over the long term. Does everyone need a Powermax85....or even a high definition class plasma? No....your usage and production needs will dictate the needs in a plasma system.Jim Colt Originally Posted by Brand XHow about some cost per ft. info on a , 0.50 MS  using a Hypertherm 85. (consumable cost) Edge angularity (from top to bottom in thousands)  on a 1 inch hole, also in 0.50 MS. (Standard) Plasma-cam type of machine. That way there is something to go by, other then best- better then sliced bread info.. As far as being employe owned,  I wonder is I am better off buying Colfax stock, and then support Esab, Then I am part of that company.That is the info that interests me. Just so you know. With fairly fresh consumables using a one torch. I can can get excellent results too. Just very low taper, except for the problematic divot.(undersize so easy to deal with) Takes work to get parameters right for accurate hole cutting.  Software like SheetCam's triangle corner  loop corners has really did more for rectangles then anything I could come up with. (One torch cuts slower then Hypertherm, or Esab's PT-37 torch)  I just cut the circle(scrap  out with my band saw, to show here.. I like how you made one piece to show the area's was interested in Attached ImagesEsab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:I'll do another part later...when I get the time. I cut the first at book specs. If anyone has read my hole cutting document...you will see that I did not follow my own suggestions for hole cutting. Now after I "tweak" the part program as well as the speeds....you will see a hole with little taper.  Remember also that I cut the pictured part with consumables with over 600 starts on them. Most plasma torches would have been on the second or third set (electrode and nozzle).Any plasma torch can get a fair number of "starts", the Hypertherm torches have the disinction of a fair number of starts while maintaining cut quality....our engineers call it "quality over life" and they do not release new consumable designs until they meet our own internal standards based on the ISO9013 cut quality specifications.Jim Colt
Reply:Jim, what is the estimated lifespan of a nozzle with 100% manual cutting? no CNC table stuff.  that is the part I go through the fastest on my ESAB.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawJim, what is the estimated lifespan of a nozzle with 100% manual cutting? no CNC table stuff.  that is the part I go through the fastest on my ESAB.
Reply:Putting hard numbers (starts, feet cut, hours) is hard with plasma cutting....as the operator, the type and thickness of material....and the cutting machine/height control....or techniques used by the hand held torch operator all play a big role.Assuming that a hand torch operator understands good piercing and edge starting techniques to keep molten metal from blowing back on the torch nozzle (tip if it is not a Hypertherm!)...then consumable life can be extremely good.The biggest problem with most plasma torches is when you are hand cutting with an exposed (unshielded) nozzle. Ideally...you need to hold a standoff with an unshielded setup at all amperages over about 30Amps......if the nozzle touches the plate during a cut it creates a current path between the negative electrode, the "floating nozzle", and the positive plate. This causes a double arc betwen the electrode/nozzle, and the nozzle/plate which damages the nozzle orifice. When the orifice gets a little damaged..poor angularity is the first thing noticed....after more double arcs and more damage...slower cut speeds and heavy dross occur....then the nozzle gets changed.  With an exposed nozzle....often heavy handheld users use a standoff device (wheels, or a wire standoff, or a ceramic cup) ...however the molten metal blowback during piercing can still create that current path from the nozzle to the plate...and double arcing is still a problem. If you have used a hand held torch with non shielded consumables at over 30 amps...and did some drag cutting....you likely feel the torch "sticking" to the plate.....this is a result of double arcing.Hypertherm invented and patended the shielded torch technology in the 80's, and have improved it over time. The shields primary function is to electrically isolate (or insulate) the nozzle from the plate....totally eliminating double arcing....and Hypertherm shielded torches drag cut at up to 200 amps with no stiction or double arcing. Great for easing the fatigue of holding a standoff...and for dramatic improvement in consumable life and cut quality.Each new iteration of the shield from Hypertherm seems to improve the capability (for both hand and machine cutting). The latest Duramax torch (Powermax65. 85,105 and available as a retrofit torch for most older Hypertherm air plasmas) uses the shield not only for isolation of the nozzle...but also uses a patented technology called connical flow that uses the combined internal shape of the nozzle and the shield to force the shield cooling air to supercool the nozzle orifice...as well injects this air flow around the perimeter of the arc to increase its energy density, The result is ....no sticking, no double arcing, faster cut speeds, thicker piercing capability, as well as dramatically longer nozzle life.The bottom line...if you can drag cut....you can easily use a metalic straightedge or template. The hand cutting job is easier.While it is hard to gauge consumable life (as I already mentioned)...for hand cutting with the latest shielded torch technology...I normally expect hundreds of feet of cut, 600 to 1200 pierces.....and to do that with a hand torch...expect 2 to 4 days of cutting in many cases.Jim Originally Posted by soutthpawJim, what is the estimated lifespan of a nozzle with 100% manual cutting? no CNC table stuff.  that is the part I go through the fastest on my ESAB.
Reply:As always you are full of good info.  Thanks for the explanation.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:We went with the Hypertherm 65 as recommended by most everyone here. We had a nice demo of it and it does 3/4 max and 1/2 without a problem. We are very happy for the new unit as it has really expanded our capabilities. Thank you all! I would think a person could make a saddle for the wand that connects to a piece of angle iron to get perfectly straight cuts. Has anyone made anything for their plasma wand to do this, or are you guys so manly you can just cut the straight line free hand? Thanks again!
Reply:Here's one example I found:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=45452
Reply:You dont need a staight edge with a stand off for a Hypertherm with a drag shield.I use a steel ruler, flat bar to make straight cuts and anything else i can find to make the shapes i need.  Big washer for small holes, thin slice of larger O.D. pipe or tube to get bigger holes or a nice arc, etc.
Reply:Thanks for taking the time Jim to really explain all this to us. Its very much appreciated. I still dont understand if you are manually dragging the wand for a straight cut how just a piece of angle iron is enough. I am sorta anal about exactness and I dont want the wand to move out of position AT ALL. This is why I am thinking a ring that tightens around the wand, that has a roller bearing type attachment that rides on a straight track isnt something that would be a very desirable and much sought after attachment. Maybe I can make something with time. The other threads on this do not make the problem go away as far as I can see. Thanks again to all!
Reply:Here ya go.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hypertherm-D...-/270744321463circles and straight cuts