acetylene beads?

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I was using the cutting torch outside, in the wind and cold and dark, and didn't realize I was running out of acetylene until the torch started going goofy. At first the handle valve started sticking open so I thought it was freezing up (it was minus 20 with a serious windchill) so I shut things down. When I went to check it out the next day, I saw that the acetylene tank was pretty much drained, and when I opened up the torch little grey and black beads that looked like granular fertilizer started falling out. Apparently one of them had blocked the lever valve. Just wondering if anyone else had seen these come out of an acetylene tank under these conditions, or if possibly they had come out of my spark arresters. The tanks are kept in an upright position.  Any thoughts or concerns? I was using my "fairly new" Victor cutting torch and regulators. I'm thinking if those pellets went through the regulators too, I should be checking out those and the hoses pretty closely. Can't be a good thing.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:That could be a sighn that you sucked acetone out of the tank and it has deteriorated your hoses. I'd check your hoses and see if they are damaged,. Could also be a regulator seal that cramped out and shot through the line in small pieces.What size tank? And how long was it run before your bottle ran dry? I've never heard of the material in a tank coming loose and making it through the reg and hoses, but I suppose it's possible.Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:i would think that at those cold temps, the bottle would have a hard time boiling an keeping up with gas consumption. I'm with dan on pulling it apart to see if you have acetone damage. I just can't figure out why you would be out cutting in -20* weatherTeach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:Ok...I should clarify... I ran the hose out under the shop door so the handle was out in cold temps, but the tanks were inside at around 45F. The tank is the typical short cylinder (around 38"?) and I was probably cutting for around 20 mins . I'll check the hoses  (new T hoses) but the pellets aren't chunks of rubber. They are very hard and very round, like hard plastic....some grey, some black. Like I say, the only other potential source I can think of is the spark arresters. Anybody ever break one apart to see what's inside?Last edited by whtbaron; 11-19-2014 at 10:29 PM.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Negative. I don't know what is inside of them Sent by a dumb smartphoneTeach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:Flash back arrestors are usually sintered bronze or something similar IIRC. Usually when one stops the fire, they melt and block the gas flow..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I've talked to the supplier and they don't seem to know what's going on either, but they have advised me to have the tank tagged when it goes back. A contributor on another site has suggested that the pumice in the tank that absorbs the acetone has been damaged and is coming apart. I thought it was just a tank full of acetone and acetylene... live and learn.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by teachagmechi would think that at those cold temps, the bottle would have a hard time boiling an keeping up with gas consumption. I'm with dan on pulling it apart to see if you have acetone damage. I just can't figure out why you would be out cutting in -20* weather
Reply:The pellets are very small and resemble fertilizer. I don't think it's anything that formed as a result of strange conditions, they appear to be as constructed and very hard...probably plastic. I'm still not sure where they came from but the acetylene tank seems like the obvious culprit because it was going empty. They did manage to clog the levered valve on the handle though. Not sure if that was because they got shook there in the process of dragging the torch handle under the shed door twice or if they came down the O2 hose.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:that's weird. they had to be formed in the torch handle because something that big is not getting through the regulator and/or flashback arrestors.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Think it's about 15 ft of hose, new regulators, quick disconnects, and  actually 2 sets of arrestors (the ones I have on the hoses for the other handles and that handle has back-flow valves. It really has me baffled, but like I stated above, I really don't think they formed anywhere, they appear to be manufactured that way. The first thing I thought when I opened the handle was "how did mice get fertilizer in here?" Obviously that would be impossible.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Could some desiccant beads have been stuck somewhere in the handle ?
Reply:It's very highly doubtful they came out of the O2 side. Almost everything burns in the presence of 100% O2 under the right conditions and pressure. Something like that would be very dangerous in HP O2. I might have seen it coming out of the inert filler medium in the acetylene cylinder. They used to use asbestos, but I don't know what they use today. I'd still have trouble seeing how those would manage to get thru the reg, let alone the check valves/flashback arrestors. Those are a lot larger than I expected. I was thinking of something about the size of large grains of sand, not the size of BB's..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Most new hose sets are shipped with healthy dose of talcum power inside.    You need to blow it out fully with really dry air or welding gas before you connect the torch. Those beads look like they were formed from talcum powder as it traveled thru the inside of the hoses and arresters as a powder, then formed balls inside the turbulent inviron of the torch handleLast edited by wornoutoldwelder; 11-22-2014 at 08:58 PM.
Reply:I still think anything formed in the torch handle would be soft enough to break with my fingernails... these little suckers are very hard and colored in different shades. You would need a hammer to break one. When I bought my first el cheapo torch there were some obvious defects and flashing in the torch tip so before I used this one it got inspected very thoroughly. I don't believe they would have been floating around in the handle since last spring without causing problems.Last edited by whtbaron; 11-22-2014 at 09:32 PM.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronI still think anything formed in the torch handle would be soft enough to break with my fingernails... these little suckers are very hard and colored in different shades. You would need a hammer to break one. When I bought my first el cheapo torch there were some obvious defects and flashing in the torch tip so before I used this one it got inspected very thoroughly. I don't believe they would have been floating around in the handle since last spring without causing problems.
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelderWhoa Hoss!I bet you a beer those are ceramic beads used in the torch manufacturing process to tumble/polish the brass torch handle parts before final assembly.......One finally got suck in the valve.
Reply:http://www.resteellmetal.com/sell-15...ve-medium.htmlYou need to contact Victor and show them what you have in you hand.
Reply:Originally Posted by teachagmechI was thinking the same thingSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:That would explain why they never melted when they contacted the torch tip... but where the hell have they been hiding for the last 6 months?? We actually got up to near 0C temps the last couple days so some of our snow melted. Supposed to get more snow and minus 20's this week though.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Could be the smallest bead managed to migrate into the valve once you tilted torch in just the right position......Imagine different size bingo balls in a tumbler cage, and cage has a hole in it just big nuff for the smallest ball...in will take many tumbles before the ball could escape.
Reply:But I know I had that tip off before I started using the torch. This time they started rolling out as soon as I took the tip off. They had to be stuck in an orifice above the valves when I set it up. This thing got bumped around when I was putting the quick disconnects on with wrenches too, and nothing fell out the top end either. Have an email into Victor... hopefully they get back to me early in the week. I took everything apart and shook the hoses. I've never found a pellet in the hoses or the regulators. Top of the handle is beginning to look like the source. Must have blown them into the torch body when I started using it. I've been using the heating and welding handles most so this one probably has less than an hour on it.Last edited by whtbaron; 11-22-2014 at 11:22 PM.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Well............All I know is I didn't put 'em there. Any tracks in the snow around your shed? With nuff time, we can get to the bottom of this
Reply:Id send it in on warrantee Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkTeach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:Once I shook the bead out of the lever valve everything seems fine. If all I need is a new tank of acetylene to get me back in business there really isn't anything to warranty. If it means sending it across the border I would rather avoid that.  It would be great to be able to tell the tank supplier that I have an explanation before they needlessly scrap a tank though. There's lots of tracks around the shed. Most of them belong to our dog though.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLesTo come from the tank, they would have to boil up from the bottom, go through valve, the tiny metering orifices in the regulator, the flash arresters, and inlet valve on the torch.They pretty much had to be in the torch body from the start.
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronI still think anything formed in the torch handle would be soft enough to break with my fingernails... these little suckers are very hard and colored in different shades. You would need a hammer to break one. When I bought my first el cheapo torch there were some obvious defects and flashing in the torch tip so before I used this one it got inspected very thoroughly. I don't believe they would have been floating around in the handle since last spring without causing problems.
Reply:Here is a pic of same exact type ceramic blasting/polishing beads he found in his torch handle....Reloaders use them for polishing brass cartridge cases also.....They come in many sizes.....You can believe Victor buys them by the ton.
Reply:I tossed the original el cheapo torch. This one ( a Victor) I bought new last spring... it has maybe an hour of cutting time on it.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:If you like your Victor and want to do them and everyone a favor, then send them an email listing model/serial # of torch and pic of what you found inside....You can even link them to this thread in the email....They may decide to become a paying sponsor here if not already.But, if nothing else, if they give a hoot they can determine who on what shift failed to do whatever, or perhaps add an inspection point, and in that way maybe improve their quality control.Who knows, they might even send you a ball cap
Reply:Email was sent... we'll see if they respond this week. If those beads were stuck in an orifice, they should be blowing them clear before they assemble. I'm a farmer.... I've got a shelf of free ball caps. Now a spare #000 tip for the welding handle...250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronEmail was sent... we'll see if they respond this week. If those beads were stuck in an orifice, they should be blowing them clear before they assemble. I'm a farmer.... I've got a shelf of free ball caps. Now a spare #000 tip for the welding handle...
Reply:Not yet...it's only minus 18 this morning (about 0 F). I'm just glad we aren't dealing with the snow they got in Buffalo. Only a couple inches on the ground here. If I don't hear back from them soon I'll start looking for the 1-800 number and give them a blast. I've actually had better luck with email responses from larger companies than the smaller ones that don't have the staff to keep up with correspondence.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Well, my new best buddies at Victor are Tim and Ronnie. After several phone calls and email exchanges it appears that they agree polishing beads are the likely explanation. They got me to perform some simple tests on the handle and unfortunately it appears the triggered valve has been damaged by the fragments of shattered ceramic. They've told me to return it on the 5 yr Warranty so no problems there. Apparently this is the first time they have had this happen so I'm just lucky I guess. When I was cutting the railroad iron I turned the O2 up higher than I normally would due to the thickness ( think I pushed it to 50lbs) so if they were trapped above the triggered valve that's probably what blew them loose. From the fragments in the valve I think that pretty much has to be the source.Last edited by whtbaron; 11-25-2014 at 04:57 PM.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Man. that's GREAT!...Include a note with torch summarizing history of your contacts with them and the fact you are returning torch at their request.Make sure to send them the beads, too. The QA and Process Development guys there can then determine if they need to make changes to their process(smaller or larger beads), and the QA folks might want to add an inspection event.
Reply:There's about 25 of the beads that will be travelling with Vic. They've been linked to this discussion so they are fully aware of what is going on. It seemed odd that none of the beads shook loose before use (shipping to Canada , mounting quick disconnects etc.) until I looked a little more closely. The built in back flow valves are at the top of the handle, so once they are installed nothing comes out the top ports. During assembly the valves are all closed and seated so nothing moves through the valves. The levered valve is spring loaded to be closed as long as the handle isn't depressed so nothing moves south of that either. Once trapped above the levered valve, nothing can move until the valve is opened under sufficient pressure to blow the beads clear. I'll be blasting a little compressed air through any new handles (valves all open) from now on before they are put in use.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:I'd like to see Victor Products appear in the Manufacturer Products section of this forum.It would be a GREAT place for us guys to give feedback and obtain answers, plus share O/A safety info particular to the O/A and O/P processes.Hypertherm's Jim Colt and his participation in this and other forums have had a very beneficial effect on both Hypertherm sales figures AND provided all of us excellent support.Some manufacturers here use this forum to overpromote their poducts, but NOT Hypertherm.
Reply:Those could be miniature Dodo Bird eggs."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumThose could be miniature Dodo Bird eggs.
Reply:Those little speckles in the beads do kinda look like bird's eggs....250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronThose little speckles in the beads do kinda look like bird's eggs....
Reply:LOl...yep, I value my teeth. I was trying to blow out the ports and got some of that grit in my teeth. Not pleasant.  They'll be Vic's travelling buddies!Last edited by whtbaron; 11-26-2014 at 11:50 PM.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronLOl...yep, I value my teeth. I was trying to blow out the ports and got some of that grit in my teeth. Not pleasant.  They'll be Vic's travelling buddies!
Reply:I can post some nasty ****....but you have to know nobody is gonna touch that with a ten foot pole...250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Here is a pic of urinal teeth. It was taken before the brawl at my last wife's family reunion where she got to meet her Sons from her first marriage.By the time the cops arrived, almost none of them had any teeth left, now they are requesting donations for full dentures.Did you know the tooth brush was invented in West Virginia? Yup, if it had been invented anywhere else, it would be called a teeth brush.
Reply:You mentioned blowing out hoses,torch with compressed air when you get a new one. I would be very careful of that as compressed air can contain oil residue from your compressor. I would use carbon dioxide, nitrogen, even argon to blow out and that way you are not introducing oil into the oxygen side of the torch which can cause a lot of problems.
Reply:My air is filtered, and I don't use oilers on the lines ( I've used it for painting on occasion) but you raise a good point. I was thinking just a quick blast of air to make sure there was nothing stuck in the orifices this time so it shouldn't involve any significant amount of contaminants. For the hoses I would just use a quick crack of the valves and use the cylinders to blow them clear.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes