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So, I'm borrowing and working out the kinks on an excavator the company I work for just bought. After fixing some wiring, some leaks, and a fluid change It's been running ok. However, the bucket needs some work, and I just broke an old weld.I started grinding out the old weld, and then thought I should post this up here to see what you all have to say. I'm not really sure if I should add another plate, or just bevel it on both sides and fill it up with weld.I've got a 250EX Inverter Tig, an old Lincoln AC/DC buzz box, and a Lincoln Power Mig 190 on hand to do the repairs. I've got 7018 for the stick, some .035 Flux Core for the mig, and some ER70-2 on hand for the Tig.I'm not a welder by trade, just like to be able to get things done myself. I can weld 7018 vertical, but I've never tried with the Tig, might be fun.So, what would be your weapon of choice, and how would you fix the bucket?
Reply:You got one of these? 7018 is your friend for this project. Attached ImagesDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPYou got one of these? 7018 is your friend for this project.
Reply:I'd go for a double bevel. A carbon arc torch would make quick work of this. But a grinder will work too. 50 to 200-degrees is more than enough for preheat. I'd wrap it with a welding blanket for post weld cool down. Attached ImagesDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI'd go for a double bevel. A carbon arc torch would make quick work of this. But a grinder will work too. 50 to 200-degrees is more than enough for preheat. I'd wrap it with a welding blanket for post weld cool down.
Reply:Ok cool, that is certainly less grinding, as I don't have easy access to a cutting torch. I Just wasn't sure if a double bevel was a good idea or not, never welded something this thick before.
Reply:Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Oh boy....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Are you planning on putting teeth back on the bucket ? What is your end goal you might be money and time ahead to just buy a new bucket. You have ALOT more grinding than you think on that crack. You asked how I would fix this: carbon arc the crack to the ends. Then weld it back to original profile with .045 fluxcore wire. If that bucket was mine or one of my customers it would be getting new shanks min and possibly an entire new lip assembly or new shanks and hardox inbetween the teeth
Reply:I thought this might be entertaining. If only because you know the kind of suffering I'm in for. Originally Posted by Firemanmike69Are you planning on putting teeth back on the bucket ? What is your end goal you might be money and time ahead to just buy a new bucket. You have ALOT more grinding than you think on that crack. You asked how I would fix this: carbon arc the crack to the ends. Then weld it back to original profile with .045 fluxcore wire. If that bucket was mine or one of my customers it would be getting new shanks min and possibly an entire new lip assembly or new shanks and hardox inbetween the teeth
Reply:Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11
Reply:Fix the crack, then add some side cutter material. That bucket is worn out in the area where the crack started in the first place. Look at the profile, its all wrong. Ive done a bunch of these repairs, but somebody will come along and supersede me. Jmo.
Reply:Originally Posted by localfiendThat bad huh? Well, at least I didn't fix it using the typical farmer method. No grinder at all, and just welding over the top of the crack, with 6011, half boogered up.
Reply:Originally Posted by 12V71Fix the crack, then add some side cutter material. That bucket is worn out in the area where the crack started in the first place. Look at the profile, its all wrong. Ive done a bunch of these repairs, but somebody will come along and supersede me. Jmo.
Reply:Originally Posted by localfiendHad to google side cutters. So you think I should add some plate to the sides to thicken things up? Would you fill in the worn area with something as well?
Reply:Originally Posted by localfiendHad to google side cutters. So you think I should add some plate to the sides to thicken things up? Would you fill in the worn area with something as well?
Reply:Originally Posted by localfiendI thought this might be entertaining. If only because you know the kind of suffering I'm in for.Teeth? I just assumed that's how it was, didn't realize other teeth went over the top of what's there. Hey, I'm a farmer, we're not really big on construction equipment. Might be a really good idea to see if I can find some, or just use this one till it's gone and have another bucket to replace it when it's gone. This isn't really a mission critical piece of equipment fortunately.ETA: Holy cow, buckets are expensive, even used ones. Maybe I really need to buy teeth.Yeah, that was a lot of grinding.I think it went ok, but there are some things I could have done better. At least I can say it's solid metal. No voids or slag. I've only welded a few things vertically, so even if the bucket explodes I got some practice
Reply:For the cost of a replacement bucket, you can throw a lot of AR plate and hardfacing rod at this one. http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/ar400-steel.htmlDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:The tips of those teeth are very worn too, that bucket has seen a hard life!
Reply:Just a comment on how this gouging rig is set up (in post #2).......when that rubber boot is slid all the way down in place there's still going to be some of that quick disconnect (that's electrically hot) sticking out. While you might get a way with dragging it around on a non conductive surface to gouge on smaller items when you go to work on something bigger (like up inside a haul truck bed) it's going to find something to arc out against and ruin that quick disconnect fitting (not to mention delaying the work while you get it fixed).What I do to avoid this potential problem is to use a short (around 18") piece of air hose that's threaded directly into the power block on the gouger and put the quick disconnect fitting on the other end of it. That will keep the quick disconnect fitting electrical isolated. http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1408658573
Reply:Okay you did do it right as far as the crack is concerned ...i'll give you thatYou will have to get some AR plate to reinforce the sides or they will crack againThe shanks for the teeth are so worn IDK if you could put new teeth on them that they would not shear the retainer pins right off I would put on a new piece of AR there and replace the shanks also as has been stated and we cannot see the rest of the bucket so you might consider some wear bars on the backside alsohttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ork&highlight=http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...eel&highlight=http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...job&highlight=I was being a smart *** ... just waiting for the others to chime in ...It's not like this would be my first rodeo and that goes for a lot of others on here that do this type of work and do way bigger stuff than i doBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Here's One I did that the sides were actually worse than yours You can see where I had to cut the side out and weld in a new piece. You could prolly get away with making a template of the section you needed to fill in and have your steel supplier cut it for you because you don't have a torchLast edited by Firemanmike69; 08-22-2014 at 10:39 AM.
Reply:Yeah, I think I will be finding some AR plate, and some shanks and teeth. The cost of a new bucket is ridiculous, even used ones are nuts. I can buy a lot of steel, and spend a lot of time welding and not come close to the replacement cost.I also need one of those arc gouger things, didn't realize what it was in the second post. I just thought it was a stick clamp attached to a Tig lead.Thanks guys!
Reply:Originally Posted by localfiendI also need one of those arc gouger things, didn't realize what it was in the second post.Still need to add some metal to the top and bottom, but got most of the other side done.Here's the whole bucket. The back could probably use some additional wear plates, but the biggest problem is the sides (aside from that broken tooth on top....) I'm thinking one big chunk, that's outlined in green, welded to the side. Then adding another piece, cut to fit marked in red.On a welding critique note, how much undercut is too much?Sometimes there's almost nothing, and sometimes it looks like the above, even when I really try and hold the corners. Anyone think it's an issue?
Reply:Some video from our last Weld O RamaBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:I outlined the area I did on and I drew a crude outline of where I would do on your bucket. I know you don't have a torch but I think borrowing one and doing some cutting and fitting would be your best bet, less steel to buy and way less welding
Reply:For what it is, I would probably try to find some teeth and just build the shanks up with 7018. If it was a production machine I would at the least replace the shanks, possibly the whole lip. But if it's just a farm machine I don't think I'd worry about the time and expense of changing the shanks. It's a pretty small machine, so breaking the shanks isn't going to be an issue. You just need to build them up enough that the force is applied to the shank from the tooth instead of your retainer pin. Because you WILL break your pins if it's too wobbly. I've built the shanks up on my 200-8 on a couple of different buckets and dig rock with it on a pretty steady basis sometimes with no trouble.If you're going to keep the machine, keep your eyes open at auctions for buckets. I've bought some pretty nice trackhoe buckets for $300 to $500 before. Bigger buckets than that... 300 size class machine buckets... Sometimes they don't fit what you're trying to put it on, but you can cut the ears off and move them closer together or further apart. If the pin holes are too big for your pins, have some bushings made. If they're too small have them bored out... It works best to line bore them after you get it welded up anyway. Some people have thought I was crazy for adapting buckets like that before, but if I can get a $12,000 bucket for $500... You're d@mn right I'll spend a few days moving ears... I actually bought a 42" Adco V-bottom rock bucket, with a ripper socket on the back of it, for $500. I think it come off a 235 Cat. We made it fit a Case 170C (75,000 pound machine). Just 2 years before that when I bought the Case brand new, we bought it without a bucket because they wanted $8,500 for a general purpose bucket, and $12,000 for a v-bottom... We had a 44" general purpose off a Koehring we made fit it, then I got the v-bottom for it too... The Koehring bucket I think dad paid $400 for at an auction, so I ended up with $900 in two buckets that would have cost $20,500... Of course each bucket had a couple days labor, oxy and acytelene, and welding rod, but it was well worth it.-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:A "Good" Farmer would take truck spring leaves and weld them to the bottoms of those teeth!After all why buy those expensive replacements for a machine that runs only a couple of hundred hours a year!Honest!That's what the Backhoe had on its teeth when we bought it!We never changed it as we only put a couple of hundred hours a year on it also.
Reply:Originally Posted by drujininA "Good" Farmer would take truck spring leaves and weld them to the bottoms of those teeth!After all why buy those expensive replacements for a machine that runs only a couple of hundred hours a year!Honest!That's what the Backhoe had on its teeth when we bought it!We never changed it as we only put a couple of hundred hours a year on it also.
Reply:So, after a couple seasons I'm back working on this bucket. It's pulled a lot of trees and dug a bunch of irrigation trenches. The operators broke off teeth and kept digging so I'm back where I started. We've got a bunch of rocks to bury, and "caliche concrete" to dig through so repairs are going to need to be tougher this time around.However, this time around I have an Air-Arc torch to play with. There are cracks next to a couple of the shanks, and they're obviously warn to nothing so I'll be welding on new ones.I'm sticking with the J300 style shanks as I have plenty of teeth for them. One issue though, there is a bit of a gap. The cutting edge has obviously worn down some, I can probably slip a piece 1/4" plate in between the shank and bucket.I'd imagine this is pretty common. How do you all handle this? Lots of filler metal? I don't really want to replace the whole cutting edge, but with it obviously being thinner and having a few cracks maybe it needs to be done.From some of the reading I've been doing it looks like the cutting edge of an excavator bucket might be different steel than the rest. Could I just replace it with a chunk of AR400 or is there a better readily available material for this kind of work?
Reply:Originally Posted by localfiendOne issue though, there is a bit of a gap. The cutting edge has obviously worn down some, . . .I don't really want to replace the whole cutting edge, but with it obviously being thinner and having a few cracks maybe it needs to be done.
Reply:I like farm repairs. I do them the same way.
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Yes, it needs to be done. You've got the right equipment this time to cut it out and do it right.Here's one example to go by.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...cket&highlight=You can check out his other bucket repairs as well for some more guidance.
Reply:I would buy the actual edge It is a fine line between hard enough to not bend but not break but resist wear. If you are going to buy the shank and do the work a few more bucks and you can do it right how would you bevel the piece if you bought arMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:I use grouser stock almost as often as I use the backhoe, it's almost as versatile. Once you blow all the nasty away, (I'd use acetylene, cause it's painful using the welder.) fill it with stringers. If you aren't proficient with vertical, move the bucket. Repair the void you create, then bridge with a piece of grouser stock to prevent wear that caused this. Metal fatigue caused this. If you only fill the crack, tired metal will surround it. Success requires the removal of bad steel either side of the crack.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:The dealership I work for has had this deal going on for a while for bucket lips shipping might be killer depending on if your local or not
Reply:Originally Posted by farmshopI would buy the actual edge It is a fine line between hard enough to not bend but not break but resist wear. If you are going to buy the shank and do the work a few more bucks and you can do it right how would you bevel the piece if you bought ar
Reply:My backhoe has a Hensley edge/teeth. The weldor who installed it in 1997 welded contact info into the side of the bucket. I contacted Hensley to get another, and the weldor to find out how he got it. Both acted like I was out of my mind. Thank you! There is a manufacturer making bucket edges with tooth shanks.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Originally Posted by localfiendYikes, I didn't expect an edge to cost that much, though it looks like the shanks are already welded on. Wonder how much plate steel in this size costs. I need a about a 45" long edge, which looks like it weighs in at 450 lbs. Shipping would probably be nuts. I also see that the thickness is at 1.5 inches. Seems thicker than the measurement I'm getting from the cat shanks I have. The shank has a gap just a bit wider than 1.25".
Reply:Originally Posted by Firemanmike69The inside shanks are already welded on and the outside ones are tacked on to position as you please, they also come with the teeth. The edge that you were looking at might be a little big for your machine, they usually go on a 20-25 ton machine. If you already have the shanks I'd price out a lip and weld them on.
Reply:Originally Posted by localfiendThat makes sense. I checked a few of the heavy equipment dealers in the area, and the prices for a 1.25" thick cutting edge in the dimensions I need is around $900. Too much money for a farmer. I can get a piece of AR400 that will do the job for ~$300. Doesn't seem that uncommon to go this route either, and several people seem to think that a lot of edges are AR400 anyway. I think the metal place will be able to bevel the steel for me, waiting to hear back from them.Here's the dimensions I came up with for the bevel.The above will let the shanks slip right on and seems to be in line with what I'm seeing from pictures on the web.This may all be a horrible mistake, but I don't think so. At least eveyone will get to see how the experiment works.
Reply:Originally Posted by Firemanmike69Not uncommon for guys to do at all. I wouldn't even worry about putting a bevel on the lip, when you cut the old lip off, it will end up that you can get plenty of weld on both sides. Then just pour the wire/rod into the lip and adaptors.Edit: also just watch your interpass temp on the ar400
Reply:Originally Posted by localfiendThe bevel was for the front cutting edge, not the back or sides where I'll weld it to the bucket. Seems most bucket cutting edges I can find pictures of have some sharpness. You're in the biz, is a sharper edge on the front actually helpful when you've got all the teeth in the way?Looking up interpass temp for AR400 now. How do most people calculate that in the real world? Do you check the heat of the surrounding material or is it just math? I'll be welding with a 250 amp max stick machine. I think I have a bunch of low hydrogen 3/16" 7018 still in the shop, if it hasn't been used up or stored improperly. I'll have to look and see what's left.
Reply:Originally Posted by Firemanmike69Yea most edges have a slight bevel on the front of them and I'm sure if you come right down to it, it is easier than a square edge to pull through the ground. I usually check the interpass and preheat temps with a laser thermometer. It's a bucket not an high pressure pipeline or the space shuttle, sometimes guys get carried away with "absolute by the code book correctness" weld her up and get back in the dirt brother
Reply:Originally Posted by localfiendCool, I've got an infrared thermometer. I'll just keep an eye on it. Seems like most spec out 300 degrees max for interpass temp.Thanks for the help.
Reply:Originally Posted by Firemanmike69Yea I usually check it a few inches from where I'm welding, I doubt you'll have too much issue with it exceeding 300.
Reply:Originally Posted by localfiendThe bevel was for the front cutting edge, not the back or sides where I'll weld it to the bucket. Seems most bucket cutting edges I can find pictures of have some sharpness. You're in the biz, is a sharper edge on the front actually helpful when you've got all the teeth in the way?Looking up interpass temp for AR400 now. How do most people calculate that in the real world? Do you check the heat of the surrounding material or is it just math? I'll be welding with a 250 amp max stick machine. I think I have a bunch of low hydrogen 3/16" 7018 still in the shop, if it hasn't been used up or stored improperly. I'll have to look and see what's left. |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:11:53