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I plan on making a tree shooting stand. But I did some testing today on half inch steel and it didn't stand a chance! I was standing about 40 yards away maybe I'm to close but I wanna be this close sometimes. What kind of steel do I need to take the impact of a rifle bullet?i also don't wanna spend to much. Thanks guys!
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Reply:AR500. JFGI, there's lots of info on steel for targets.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:3/8" AR500. And recommend a minimum safe shooting distance of 100-150yds on the AR500 when using high velocity rifle rounds. Shooting at mild steel from 40yds with a long rifle is unsafe. A36 will eject hazardous frag from the front & spalling from the aft surface adjacent to the thru-hole.Recommend you read both of these articles,http://snipershide.scout.com/story/1...el-targets-101http://www.arntzentargets.com/ShootingDistance.pdf"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:ar470-ish and higher. Basically any of the high carbon "wear plate" type steels. Shooting ANYTHING that close with a rifle round can be "exciting"... hhhahah.. almost all rifle rounds with some speed will leave divits if its to close no matter the steel. Heat is the steels enemy, and a fast found close range has lots of heat. I shoot steel within about 10 yards with hard cast, probably not the brightest idea, but its fun!
Reply:Also be aware that you don't want to weld ar500, unless you really know what you are doing. Wide HAZ takes the properties you want out. If you are shooting with .22 or handguns, you can get by with ar400. Our local reloading store in Indy has a nice selection of precut ar500 and some fun .22 caliber walkers in ar400.AHP AlphaTIG 200DX (2nd Gen)Lincoln WeldPak 3200HD Bird Poop GeneratorLotos LTP5000D Plasma Cutter
Reply:I recommend AR500 also. I used 3/8" for swing plates at my home range, and they are still in good shape after several years. All rifle fire is from 100 yds min., and pistols no less than 10 yds., with eye protection mandatory. I did have to put up a panel to protect the barn from the bullet fragments that were chewing up the siding.Last edited by Tool Junkie; 01-12-2015 at 08:13 PM.
Reply:moto,Judging by the shape of the divots I'd say the bullets trajectory was perpendicular to that piece of plate. That's a bad, bad idea, especially from that close. I was present when some one shot a heavy piece of 3/4 A36 straight on from around 50 yds with a 338 Win Mag. The shooter and one other person ended up getting struck with some of the blow back. If the target can't swing you've got to have it set on an angle. I think you lucked out that you got a way uninjured shooting that plate from that close that many times.
Reply:Originally Posted by sacherjjAlso be aware that you don't want to weld ar500, unless you really know what you are doing. Wide HAZ takes the properties you want out. If you are shooting with .22 or handguns, you can get by with ar400. Our local reloading store in Indy has a nice selection of precut ar500 and some fun .22 caliber walkers in ar400.
Reply:Even rounds that penetrate can and will peel that copper jacket off and send it flying or shrapnel flying. Straight back is rare but in the world of odds it does happen. It could be the 1st round. Plain soft nosed pistol rounds can send a copper pancake straight back at ya too. I've been hit by all of em at one time or other. They're hot, very hot. They stick in the skin and burn in. Distance is your friend. Or you can be a slow learner like me."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Originally Posted by HT2-4956moto,Judging by the shape of the divots I'd say the bullets trajectory was perpendicular to that piece of plate. That's a bad, bad idea, especially from that close. I was present when some one shot a heavy piece of 3/4 A36 straight on from around 50 yds with a 338 Win Mag. The shooter and one other person ended up getting struck with some of the blow back. If the target can't swing you've got to have it set on an angle. I think you lucked out that you got a way uninjured shooting that plate from that close that many times.
Reply:Thanks guys I'm gona get a price on ar500 tomorrow. And the targets on the tree will spin 180 degrees
Reply:Around here hunters stand in a tree shooting stand. They aren't normally designed to fend off rifle bullets, only carry weight. Tough hunting conditions where you are I guess.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313Thanks guys I'm gona get a price on ar500 tomorrow. And the targets on the tree will spin 180 degrees
Reply:Originally Posted by Tool JunkieI recommend AR500 also. I used 3/8" for swing plates at my home range, and they are still in good shape after several years. All rifle fire is from 100 yds min., and pistols no less than 10 yds., with eye protection mandatory. I did have to put up a panel to protect the barn from the bullet fragments that were chewing up the siding.
Reply:Thanks. I put a lot of thought and hard work into my range so that it would be safe ,functional and easily maintained. I also recover all the lead that goes into the boxes for future bullet casting. I lucked out at the steel place because they had a couple of odd shaped AR rems that they let me have for $.40 lb.. I got all 3 of the 8" swing plates out of one of them, and I can get at least 2 replacements out of the other one, if and when they wear out.
Reply:Any of you guys ever deal with HY-80? The welders who work in the local Navy ship yards talk about it, but I've never been around it.Dont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:The 180 swingers are a good idea. One thing you have to watch for on plate is going concave. With an alternating hit side, you reduce the chances of that quite a bit.AHP AlphaTIG 200DX (2nd Gen)Lincoln WeldPak 3200HD Bird Poop GeneratorLotos LTP5000D Plasma Cutter
Reply:It's only about 40 bucks for 1/2 x5x40. But they want 120 bucks to cut it.
Reply:motolife313You may find that 1/2" is too thick - actually too heavy. Compared to 3/8" the added inertial mass of 1/2" slows the recoil of the target, and results in heavier cratering.Essentially: hard, but light in weight is best.Except for the biggest game calibers, 3/8" is the mostcommon gage for the majority of rounds shot.Opus
Reply:We use 3/8" AR500 with heavy long rifles out to 1300yds. ~Gong~ aural feedback is perfect. 1/2" is overkill."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313I plan on making a tree shooting stand. But I did some testing today on half inch steel and it didn't stand a chance! I was standing about 40 yards away maybe I'm to close but I wanna be this close sometimes. What kind of steel do I need to take the impact of a rifle bullet?i also don't wanna spend to much. Thanks guys!
Reply:Originally Posted by RoadhunterMy first question is why are you shooting a rifle at 40 yards? Seems awfully close unless you are just sighting in.
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKaiWe use 3/8" AR500 with heavy long rifles out to 1300yds. ~Gong~ aural feedback is perfect. 1/2" is overkill.
Reply:I think you want to stick a magnet to any cheap Russian rounds you might be firing, to make sure they are not steel core.AHP AlphaTIG 200DX (2nd Gen)Lincoln WeldPak 3200HD Bird Poop GeneratorLotos LTP5000D Plasma CutterOriginally Posted by motolife313Do you think a 7.62x39 would put a nasty indent like the pics above in 3/8 ar500 from 50 yards away?
Reply:What they with ricochet if the have steel in them?
Reply:I've never had steel core punch through a 3/8 AR500 plate. Steel core ammo does not equal AP ammo. There's a huge difference between a mild steel penetrator core and a hardened tool steel or tungsten AP core. I've seen thousands of rounds of regular steel core ammo (Russian surplus 7.62x39 and US M855) fired at AR500 targets and none of them penetrated even with multiple hits in the same location. And any rifle round fired at 40 yards hitting an AR500 steel plate will ricochet lead, jacket components, etc... which is why you shouldn't shoot rifle at steel under 100y. Even handgun at 40 yards has a chance of throwing material back at you that can cause damage.Remember, no complete actual AP ammo is legal to sell in the US and is very thoroughly prohibited from import. You can get just AP bullets (hard to find, but legal), however, they cannot be assembled cartridges when sold, you can only sell the bullets by themselves. Once you own the bullets it is fully legal (at a federal level anyways) to assemble your own personally possessed AP cartridges using those bullets. You cannot however, then sell them.--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:I have hit my plates with Russian steel core and M855 bullets too, with no damage. I am going to modify one of the swing plates to hang from #80 chain instead of a solid hinged arm. I hope that the plate will swing faster, and hopefully divert most of the fragments down into the sandbox below, rather than splattering in all directions as they do now.
Reply:Ok so I found a piece of 1/2 x 11x25 for 42 bucks not bad. But it's hardox500 how good is that stuff?and the bullets I buy has steel under the brass
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313Do you think a 7.62x39 would put a nasty indent like the pics above in 3/8 ar500 from 50 yards away?
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyIf you're shooting just any 7.62x39 you can get your hands on, like many of us do,,, be carefull. Good chance you'll end up with some that have a penetrator in them. On the positive side, those are keepers. Set those aside for use under other conditions. But a 7.62 round with a penetrator up against AR plate at 40 yards could be quite the ordeal.
Reply:Originally Posted by wintermutePointless. Any body armor capable of stopping a basic 7.62x39 or 5.56 will also stop the mild steel core versions. Any armor incapable of stopping them won't stop the penetrator or the non penetrator versions. Actual ap ammo is substantially different than just normal mild steel penetrator ammo. The mild steel penetration ammo was designed to ensure the round maintained integrity and ballistic trajectory through light barriers like plywood, car windshields, 21g sheet metal, etc...--Wintermute
Reply:Before we get to off topic is hardox500 as strong as ar500 or stronger?thanks
Reply:AR500 and Hardox 500 are basically the same thing. Both are through hardened wear plates with a nominal brinell hardness of at least 500. Both will lose their hardening when exposed to high temperatures (such as welding, plasma cutting, etc...).--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Thanks man. Do you think I can cut through it with a cut off wheel on a 4.5 inch grinder? I heard it will only take the hardening out of the corners if I try to cut it with a torch. Like 1/8 of an inch of the corner will lose its hardness. Do you think that's true or will I jack 5x5 piece up if I try to torch it out? I'm hoping a grinder will work
Reply:Grinder won't work...it'll take forever and a day as well as 100s of cut off wheels. OA torch will definitely destroy the hardness for most of a 5x5 piece. Waterjet is the best route, laser next, then cnc plasma w/a water table.--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Using a plasma cutter at the correct power level and cut speed on AR plate will not destroy the hardness, it generally will soften the edge less than .010" from the cut edge....which in the vast majority of target applications will have no effect on the integrity of the target. The best cutting job would be done with an oxygen based plasma, a perfectly acceptable job will be done with an air plasma of 45 to 85 amps on 3/8" plate. AR will cut at the same speed and at the same quality as standard mild steel plate.If the steel supplier has a plasma system and charges more for cutting AR plate (than they would for mild steel), then they are simply enjoying higher margins!Jim Colt Hypertherm
Reply:Ill call a water jet place today if that's to spendy,a guy I know said he has a plasma cutter that can cut .5 inch but says it eats tips from the stuff bouncing back up does this sound right? He thinks it will eat 4 10 dollar tips.
Reply:I got gona get .5 inch cuz that's what I found a deal on. It was a rem piece
Reply:eating tips that bad on 1/2" material seems out of bounds. Any idea on what plasma he's running? I have a PCM-875 with a 1-torch installed on it and I could cut a couple hundred feet of 1/2" before needing to replace a tip (and that's by hand...CNC should be more efficient with the consumables).--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Should be able to pierce and cut hundreds to thousands of parts on one nozzle (tip)! It will cut like mild steel. If they only get a few cuts... They are doing something seriously wrong with their plasma. Plasma is ( by far) the most cost effective way to cut steel, including AR type plate. I charge about 3 cents per foot to cut 3/8" steel, profit and overhead included of course. Originally Posted by motolife313Ill call a water jet place today if that's to spendy,a guy I know said he has a plasma cutter that can cut .5 inch but says it eats tips from the stuff bouncing back up does this sound right? He thinks it will eat 4 10 dollar tips.
Reply:3 cents a foot I'm coming to you!!!
Reply:heck, cutting it by hand with a guide I'd only charge someone around $10 for a 1 off, and that's mostly just for my time to setup my plasma and pull out my guides.--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Ya these fab shops I've been call want 85 to 125 bucks to cut .5x12x25 into 6 pieces. It's crazy. I just want someone to cut it by hand. They say it will take less time in the cnc machine. I don't care how it looks. I'm probably gona cut it with my friends torch
Reply:Torch cutting will weaken the ar500. Much more than plasma, because the heated zone is much larger. I've seen 1-2" softened area with torch cut holes for hanging.AHP AlphaTIG 200DX (2nd Gen)Lincoln WeldPak 3200HD Bird Poop GeneratorLotos LTP5000D Plasma Cutter
Reply:I cut mine out by hand with plasma using a plywood pattern, and I don't think the HAZ was even a 1/16" from the edges. I certainly have never seen any difference in bullet impacts near the edge. Of course all my shots are in the center of the target.Is your friends plasma only rated to sever 1/2", not cut 1/2"? Is he using the correct size and type of tip, and the correct air flow? I can't think of any reason for a properly set up plasma to burn tips up like he says, other than being much too small for the job.
Reply:He said it can cut half inch. But it's over 20 years old. I heard from a few metal guys and my Machinest it shouldn't hurt more then 1/8 inch. This place in Portland OR called ideal steel the guy said they cut them with a torch sometimes
Reply:Cutting AR 500 with a torch for targets is fine. Use the right tip so you can move at decent speed and you will be just fine. grind the mill scale first and you can go pretty fast. I use a number 0 victor at 23-25 psi for 3/8" and cruise right along. Never seen any 2" HAZ issues. Targets aint a piano.Last edited by 12V71; 01-14-2015 at 09:31 PM.Reason: sp
Reply:Originally Posted by jimcoltShould be able to pierce and cut hundreds to thousands of parts on one nozzle (tip)! It will cut like mild steel. If they only get a few cuts... They are doing something seriously wrong with their plasma. Plasma is ( by far) the most cost effective way to cut steel, including AR type plate. I charge about 3 cents per foot to cut 3/8" steel, profit and overhead included of course. |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:10:45