Is an Aluminum drawbar strong enough for a towbar rack

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I am putting together an aluminum enclosure for a tow bar carrier (think of it like a small bike rack off the tow bar, but enclosing it).  Some notes: The enclosure frame is going to be with Aluminum. Weight to be carried is only ~45kg Towbar is reese hayman  - so 50mm x 50mm square Main reason is I can then weld directly onto this as the rest is in Aluminium, plus keeps another item lighter weight in the design tooQuestion 1 - Would it be OK to use Aluminum for the main bar going into the tow bar?  Say 50x50x3.0 dimensions with 6060 T5 temper?    Question 2 - If not, what would be the approach to attach/fix an Aluminum frame onto a drawbar (with some crossbeams) which is steel? thanks
Reply:45 KG, that's about 100 LBS. Aluminum isn't as strong by dimension as steel. With steel, I tow 10000 LBS with a Tongue weight of 1500 LBS. How will you attach the carrier to this 2" piece of solid bar stock? Some welding equipment might not be up to the task.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BHow will you attach the carrier to this 2" piece of solid bar stock? Some welding equipment might not be up to the task.
Reply:Solid shouldn't be a problem, though the vibration will wear into the aluminum. Hollow I would avoid.  BTW, this type of application is not where aluminum shines. It will fatigue a crack at the welds much quicker than steel.
Reply:I would think steel drawbar and frame to mount aluminum box on would be a much better arrangement.Mike
Reply:Steel, 10,000lbs? I haul 15,000lbs with aluminum. FYI there are LOTS of 2" aluminum drawbars and the do shine quite literally, many are Class V rated for higher towing weights than any 1/2  pickup can haul. Those are forged, not the 2"x2"x.125" you are referencing (Sorry mate, no sillymeters for me )Now your square tube may be the minimum for a substantial weight of 100lbs. Fatigue cracking is BS if it's welded properly, and you can NDT the 4 place bike carrier I made about 20 years ago that is still fine and dandy. I think it is 1/4 wall drawbar. There are as well probably hundreds of thousands of other bike racks and hitch carriers that are rated for higher weights which you can buy that some poor kid in China made for $99 at Walmart. There are even aluminum carriers just like you describe making which are rated for 300lbs, and I have another channel style which is rated for 500 lbs that I strap my dual sport motorcycle to.So yeah you don't need a 100 lbs of steel to hold your 100lb carrier.RyanMiller Multimatic 200 tig/spool gun/wireless remoteMillermatic 350P, Bernard/XR Python gunsMiller Dynasty 350, Coolmate 3.5 & wireless remoteCK WF1 TIG wire feederMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeOptrel e684Miller Digital EliteMiller Weld-Mask
Reply:Originally Posted by mixedupnot really sure what you mean here - re the Aluminium option it was hollow square 50x50x3.0 that I was considering re whether it's strong enough to carry 45kg..
Reply:Like this one? Aluminum fatigues, add a huge drop as a lever and stuff happens.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:You could add another couple hundred pounds on it and still have peace of mind. Just have good fit up and correct legg heights
Reply:Mixedup, you contemplating 50mm x 50mm x 3.0 mm wall tube?  Too thin - it might hold up a couple aluminum lawn chairs.  And will it have very sharp corners?  Might not fit in the receiver."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTLike this one? Aluminum fatigues, add a huge drop as a lever and stuff happens.
Reply:And planes are riveted together to allow more movement without stressing the metal. Ever ride in a riveted boat and then a welded boat?Also check the break on that aluminum drop, the weld didn't break.Aluminum trailers crack and fall apart. A steel trailer (as long as it doesn't rust) can basically last forever.Aluminum is great, I love to use it, but it has its places and uses.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTAnd planes are riveted together to allow more movement without stressing the metal. Ever ride in a riveted boat and then a welded boat?Also check the break on that aluminum drop, the weld didn't break.Aluminum trailers crack and fall apart. A steel trailer (as long as it doesn't rust) can basically last forever.Aluminum is great, I love to use it, but it has its places and uses.
Reply:Ryan, you could lighten up a bit and still make your point.  Sounds to me like you and VPT were making some of the same points in different ways."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Yep, tone it down boys.  No need to turn this thread into a pissin' match.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Duane, you got a problem?  Bring it on, LOL!  I hope the OP wasn't talking about using 3mm wall tube.  That is my concern. ~ 100 pounds sticking out the back and no mention of the length, load distance or road conditions ...  I remember flying in Boeing 727's where the wings would flap around all over the place.  Felt much better in a 737, especially when I was flying "strapped-to-the-wing class"."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:As a truck driver almost any of us will tell you aluminum trailers are preferred. They're lighter. Last just as long. They don't rust, aluminum doesn't bend well so usually they don't dog Leg over time like steel ones do. If they break big deal. That's what insurance is for. Usually the welds on the rub rails where you secure your chains and straps is what breaks if they ever do break. Easy fixes. Weld it. Don't have to worry about bending and hours of hammering and straightening like you do with steelIt's simple. get a mud motor. shoot ducks in the face.Last edited by jakehawk9; 04-05-2016 at 09:11 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumDuane, you got a problem?  Bring it on, LOL!
Reply:Originally Posted by xryanThose are about the most ignorant statements I've ever read. Apparently aluminum is the only metal that fatigues in your bizzaro world. Have you ever seen an aluminum object that has been welded fail, where it fails, why it does so, where the base metal has been weakened without additional heat treatment? You both also ignore that POS adaptomatic-turnover designed for every truck/trailer combination which is disaster, safe for none. Where's the rest of that photo's story? The chains? The boat on the trailer? The tires? The, most likely, idiot driver?If you'e worked in avaition you know that every system of the airframe has mandatory inspection and overhaul hour limits, regardless of the material.Welded vs rivited aluminum boats? I'll take welded every time. Yes "I've ridden in them" both as a passenger in a vessel and Master of it (merchant mariner licence, ie: Captain) I've welded them, repaied rivited ones, as well as steel. I guess you've never seen a ship split in half and sink like a rock taking the crew with it that was made from steel. Would you like me to show you pictures of steel trailers that are 2 years old that have failed,  with no rust?Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTSteel doesn't crack. Never seen it happen ever. Stainless maybe but not steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWHuh?  I can think of any number of heavy equipment threads that show cracked steel ( buckets, loader arms, suspension components..), as well as plenty of picts in the trailer fail thread of cracked steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55My post wasn't directed at you.  It just came up right after yours.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumRyan, you could lighten up a bit and still make your point.  Sounds to me like you and VPT were making some of the same points in different ways.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTBologna! Show me one pic of steel that cracked from fatigue.
Reply:Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMiller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.You guys are all on crack!  12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:John, funny I was thinking exactly about THAT bridge, posting a picture of its collapse from steel fatigue,  but alas I was shamed to tone it down. Not PC to discuss facts I guess.Sent from my SCH-I605 using TapatalkRyanMiller Multimatic 200 tig/spool gun/wireless remoteMillermatic 350P, Bernard/XR Python gunsMiller Dynasty 350, Coolmate 3.5 & wireless remoteCK WF1 TIG wire feederMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeOptrel e684Miller Digital EliteMiller Weld-Mask
Reply:I understand the replacement bridge is billet aluminum...  Miller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTBologna! Show me one pic of steel that cracked from fatigue.
Reply:Thats not fatigue, that is rust, and shock load. You can tell with the blue trailer as it is bent and well the rust.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTThats not fatigue, that is rust, and shock load. You can tell with the blue trailer as it is bent and well the rust.
Reply:No, that isn't bent at all (before welding).The other cheap walmart trailer is rust and china metal.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTNo, that isn't bent at all (before welding).The other cheap walmart trailer is rust and china metal.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjThat trailer is a semi trailer and that bend is factory. The frames on semi flats are fabricated that way to keep ride height down and still have a tall enough beam to carry the span.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTYes but normally isn't the "arch" up instead of sagging?
Reply:Well the fun seems to have come to an end in this thread. I thought I would get more of a rise out of the "steel doesn't crack" than I did.But I would still use steel instead of aluminum for the OP's project. At least the part that goes in the receiver and part of the frame for the rack. From there I would bolt aluminum to the steel frame for the basket or shelves or what have you.It does remind me of the times you see people stick all the heavy things on one side of their receiver rack and it bends and hits the ground on the heavy side after a few bumps in the road. I also get a kick out of the people that use them for hauling deer in the hunting season which around here is also salt/snow season at the same time. Nothing like salting down the deer all the way back to IL with road grime. 12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Years ago a friend now deceased gave me a sheet showing how to make beef taste like venison. I can't remember all the steps. Gut shoot it, chase it ten miles, leave it on the ground overnight so coyotes can eat part, drag it through a swamp, then sand, across a greasy garage floor, hang it up with the hide, guts, and head still there. Leave it for a week, hung low enough for dog to wander through open door, and pee on it. Cut it up after plenty of warm days so flies lay eggs. Leave in refrigerator two weeks. Cook leaving fat & gristle on.The point was that people mistreat venison disgracefully. You wouldn't dream of treating beef that way.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Those insert carriers are the rocking-est, wobbling-est, bouncing-est, noisy-est dayem things I've sever seen. I picture the wear rate on an aluminum insert being phenomenal.  Of course I also realize that most folks that want one generally don't end up using them as much as they think they will either. Maybe three times in the first six months then they set all cold and lonely in a corner somewhere. The ones I know that do use the heck out of them always buy those HF or Northern Tools ones on the cheap. Those bolt together ones start tearing their self apart right off the git-go. They'll come around wanting you to 'patch it up a bit' cuzz you have that welder. I won't touch 'em. The benefit-reward to effort ratio is all bass ackwards on them. It is still a turd when you're done."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BYears ago a friend now deceased gave me a sheet showing how to make beef taste like venison. I can't remember all the steps. Gut shoot it, chase it ten miles, leave it on the ground overnight so coyotes can eat part, drag it through a swamp, then sand, across a greasy garage floor, hang it up with the hide, guts, and head still there. Leave it for a week, hung low enough for dog to wander through open door, and pee on it. Cut it up after plenty of warm days so flies lay eggs. Leave in refrigerator two weeks. Cook leaving fat & gristle on.The point was that people mistreat venison disgracefully. You wouldn't dream of treating beef that way.