Recommend MIG machine for my application

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Hi all- first post here but I've already learned a lot from reading old posts.I own a small custom furniture business with a partner. I make metal frames for tables, benches, etc and he adds wood surfaces. We've been doing it about 2 years now, full time for about 6 months. Here are a few photos:Both of us are self-taught, just upgrading our equipment and abilities as we take on more and more involved jobs. My welder is a Hobart Handler 175, and it has treated me very well. Since picking it up off craigslist, I've only had to replace wear and tear items. However, I don't think it's really meant to be used all day 5 days a week, and I feel like I probably would be wise to upgrade sooner rather than waiting for it to go down and then having to buy something in a rush.It's my only basis for comparison, and I really don't know what I ought to be looking for in a new welder. I work almost entirely with 11ga tubing and angle, though occasionally as big as 1/2" x 5" bar, and as small as 16ga. Most of the info I'm finding through searching is pretty specific, so a basic rundown on what the options are generally would be great. I'm not working with a big budget here, but I recognize that spending a bit more upfront might be worth it long term, so say I'd be happy to spend ~$800, willing to save my pennies and drop $1500 if that's really what I should do.Advice is definitely appreciated! Attached Images
Reply:I have a an older Hobart 210 ironman. It serves me just fine. I would think a machine around 210 - 250 amp would be good for you. I would stay in the 220-240 volt range..Nice work on your builds!
Reply:Pretty work!  Welcome.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:I have a Hobart beta mig 200 it still works . I do have other welders though but most of them are a 90's vintage.As long as it works you should be ok. If you are worried about it quitting and needing one right away then get one for a spare or backup. It sounds like you have time to shop around to find something to suite your needs. I vote for staying with a 220-240 volt machine also. Good luckNice furniture.
Reply:A Hobart 210 or Miller 212 would be close to your budget and give you more duty cycle.
Reply:Very nice work!!!
Reply:I'm a big fan of my machine, a Thermal Arc Fabricator 211i. Plus, it's got the benefit of being a multi-process machine - as it sounds like you may be expanding your projects/capabilities. I think it'll fall well within your duty cycle/material thickness requirements. Although, you'll be hard pressed to find a 1/2" single pass machine that's within the hobbyist/light manufacturing price range. Where are you located?  Gorgeous work!Do you really know all of the work that goes into getting that fish onto your plate?
Reply:Your 175 is working, might as well just keep using it until it does die. Are you near a welding supply place that you can get a new machine quickly?What's your relationship with them?Worst case is you can run down to Home Depot or Lowes and pick up a Lincoln 180.Hobart Ironman 230 $1,499.00 will certainly fill your needs and I think iffin' yer gonna upgrade then upgrade. If your 175 quit and you just wanted something in the same class then a Hobart 210MVP would work also.http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...ahAhoCjW_w_wcBThe 15' Gun adds 5 more feet for your whip, which would allow you to move around the Furniture without have to move the machine.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Sounds like a perfect job for a decent 120 volt machine.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Originally Posted by mad welder 4Sounds like a perfect job for a decent 120 volt machine.
Reply:Which ever you end up with, the 15ft gun like Broccoli mentioned will really make a difference. Sounds like a 250amp mig would be perfect, you would be working in the 100% duty cycle range so would be very little wear n tear. I know the Thermal Arc 210 Fabricator is an awesome welder, but they are hard to find, and besides Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, HTP makes a very sweet looking welder, and may very well beat all the  big guns with warranty and personalized customer service. Happy hunting.Thermal Arc 210 - Tweco 211I - Cutmaster 52
Reply:Originally Posted by #1SomeGuyNo it doesn't...not if he's welding 1/2" stuff.
Reply:Do you ever run into duty cycle issues with the 175? Does it shut down to cool periodically?I ask, because, welding 1/8" tubing, you are probably setting the wire speed at 50% or better, and the voltage at 4, right?If not, what do you set them at?I am thinking you are using the 175 at, around 75% or more of its potential.As you have found out, you can run the 175 all day, every day. But I am sure your concern is whether you can run it all day, every day for years.I think, with the Hobart Ironman 230, you would be in that category, operating comfortably below its limit.http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...ct_47864_47864Last edited by geezerbill; 01-23-2015 at 10:01 AM.Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR
Reply:Originally Posted by mad welder 4Sounds like a perfect job for a decent 120 volt machine.
Reply:In my personal opinion, replacing the HH 175 with even a HH 190 or Power MIG 180C would be an upgrade. The HH 175 is notorious for control board failure issues. The HH 175 also only offers 4 tap selections, and the output on the  4th tap is rough/harsh resulting in quite a bit of spatter.Honestly though stepping up to the Ironman 230 that has been suggested makes the most sense. Twelve voltage taps gives you a higher level of adjustability. The 230 offers a very significant increase in top end power over the HH 175. The 230 would give you around an 80% - 90% duty cycle on 1/8" material; whereas, the HH175 is around 30%. The wire drive on the 230 allows you to run a 15' gun lead. The 230 also produces a much cleaner smoother arc, then the 175,resulting in less spatter and better weld puddle wet out.An ESAB Migmaster 250, Power MIG 255C, Millermatic 210, Power MIG 215, or Power MIG 216 would be a few good used units to consider.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Originally Posted by jeverichI'm a big fan of my machine, a Thermal Arc Fabricator 211i. Plus, it's got the benefit of being a multi-process machine - as it sounds like you may be expanding your projects/capabilities. I think it'll fall well within your duty cycle/material thickness requirements. Although, you'll be hard pressed to find a 1/2" single pass machine that's within the hobbyist/light manufacturing price range. Where are you located?  Gorgeous work!
Reply:I'll agree with jeverich and 7A749. Beauty of that machine is that it is very capable of doing what you need along with good waranty and service and the big bonus is the multi process which will allow you to offer beautiful tig welds on anything other than Alu, although there is capacity for Alu spool gun, just no Alu tig. The machines come with stick lead and MIG gun, gas regulator 110v & 220v leads, ground lead/clamp and a cheapo auto helmet, but no tig torch, but you can pick that up as you need it. A buddy showed me his new 211i about a month ago, burned some rod, ran some wire and got impressed. I decided to buy one sometime soon and get rid of my other machines.I know I sound like a salesman, I'm not, it's just that I was very impressed with this machine and it will cover anything that I do. I like the fully variable voltage and wire speed with digi readout that makes it easy to set repeat work...it sounds ideal for your situation. Check it out at your LWS and pick it up on sale, I think you will find it ideal. Good luck in your business, you guys have a good eye for design and should sell whatever you make, cheers!!  When a welder tells you to "stick it", what do they really mean?"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Reply:Originally Posted by DanIn my personal opinion, replacing the HH 175 with even a HH 190 or Power MIG 180C would be an upgrade. The HH 175 is notorious for control board failure issues. The HH 175 also only offers 4 tap selections, and the output on the  4th tap is rough/harsh resulting in quite a bit of spatter.Honestly though stepping up to the Ironman 230 that has been suggested makes the most sense. Twelve voltage taps gives you a higher level of adjustability. The 230 offers a very significant increase in top end power over the HH 175. The 230 would give you around an 80% - 90% duty cycle on 1/8" material; whereas, the HH175 is around 30%. The wire drive on the 230 allows you to run a 15' gun lead. The 230 also produces a much cleaner smoother arc, then the 175,resulting in less spatter and better weld puddle wet out.An ESAB Migmaster 250, Power MIG 255C, Millermatic 210, Power MIG 215, or Power MIG 216 would be a few good used units to consider.
Reply:This is cool as well: "It [HTP 2400] has a slow medium and normal start. You set the wire speed and flip the switch to slow and it starts the wire feed slower to allow the metal to heat up then speeds up to your setting." Also has spot and stitch modes.That TA 211i does look really sweet. I guess it's 200A rather than 240, but the stick, MIG & TIG capability is amazing, and it's actually pretty cheap ($1200 with goodies included). Can use 110 or 220v, amperage range goes all the way down to 10, and it weighs a quarter as much as the others. My electrical physics knowledge is very basic- am I right in thinking that this is fundamentally different equipment? Inverter vs. transformer? If so, I guess there would be power consumption considerations as well, and maybe different arc characteristics? The Ironman 230 basically seems like what I have, but more and better. Which is great, but maybe not quite as enticing as the multifunction or mode features I'd get with the others. I'm guessing that'd apply to quite a few of these other options as well (ESAB Migmaster 250, Power MIG 255C, Millermatic 210, Power MIG 215, or Power MIG 216, from above) but haven't had a chance to go through them all yet.
Reply:For what you are doing I would recommend the Miller 211. The duty cycle is not great at high amps-but you are not a factory with a quota! The 211 is dual voltage and also accepts a spool gun for aluminum or stainless. With Miller's rebate program, it is well within your budget. The money you save on the rebate will buy you a tank of gas for it.
Reply:Hey glad to see you checked on the HTP, chucke2009 has a you tube video on the 2400.Thermal Arc 210 - Tweco 211I - Cutmaster 52
Reply:The new Lincoln 210MP is also a unit you may want to look at.  Has the benefit of easy service from LWS and is a well known brand.  I got to play around with one just a bit at my LWS and it was a pretty nice machine.  Should allow you to do what you're doing today and expand in the future.--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:take a look at the roloc discs they might work or get a tig for the light stuff you could get away with a small syncro 180 or equivalent.High Octane Welding
Reply:Look into longevity or everlast.
Reply:i just remembered maybe a thermal arc fabricator would be good tig and mig in oneHigh Octane WeldingLincoln 255 & L-56 wire for your work will be the best .We run them with .045 Outershield 71 Elite all day on production work. The HTP -2400 should do the same for 1000 less.
Reply:I'm really liking the Miller 211 machine.....I think their around a grand or so but have inverter tech. and have spool gun capabilitieswhich is nice for that every once in a while aluminum job....   Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:The MM211 is a transformer based machine.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:good to know Ed, I was under the impression that the machines that you could plug into different outlets were inverter?     Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:They mostly are, except for the MM211 and the Hobart Handler MVP. Both of those are good welders but I feel that time has past them by. Newer transformer welders have $$$ circuit boards in them, too. They just weigh more and eat more power.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps