Welding Around Sawdust

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Hey, been reading on here for a while and decided to start posting, so HEY!Anyways, on to my annoying questions that I should know the answer to:I've been working in a shop that builds timber frame trusses (hence the name) while I'm going to school for my Welding engineering BS and my boss and I have been talking about using my welding abilities to do some decorative steel work and other stuff like that. It's right up our alley as far as what we produce and would obviously be awesome for me. In our shop there's a small ramp out to a bay door that would be perfect to set up as a small fab shop (I'll try to get pictures tomorrow to show the area a little better), but I'm really worried about the amount of sawdust we produce. I was thinking about hanging a big fireproof blanket to separate my welding off (again, pictures 'll help show). But with us cutting with chain saws and stuff all day almost every day, the dust gets everywhere. Do you guys think it's a big deal if there's some sawdust around when you're welding? I'd be sure to sweep out my area before striking an arc, but there's only so much you can do. I really want to start this, cause it would mean a big raise for me and getting to start welding at work. On the other hand, I'd like to try my best not to burn the building down. Cause, you know, that would suck and stuff.Thanks for reading my unnecessarily long question!!
Reply:saw dust smolders and may not flame for hours,  IMO don't.a hot ball of molten metal could roll a good distance.yes one may get buy with it for years, but it is not a good idea in my opinion, my welding is in a separate building from my wood working,  (I have build some very custom cabinets out of the wood shop).   and I am a reasonable welder, and have build some of the machinery I use in the wood shop, and many thing for the farm, if on occasion some one ran a table saw and then cleaned up  no problem but I know how wood build sup with planers and chain saws.  If the company decides it is a good idea, keep a watch man on duty a good number of hours after the welding is done, and have good fire extinguishers on hand, and a water hose,Last edited by Farmerboy; 02-05-2015 at 01:18 AM.
Reply:Surface dust is one thing- piles and drifts of sawdust are another.  A spark can lodge in sawdust, form a tiny smoking nugget and lay there for hours or days before it bursts into flame. usually this happens when it is covered over with more sawdust and the air can't get to it.  This happens with tablesaws sometimes, when the blade sparks on something and puts a tiny ember into the dust under the saw base.  Once found a ting smoke trail coming out of a tablesaw blade insert just before closing- the last two of us in the shop could smell smoke and walked the whole yard over till we finally found it.
Reply:Cool I've always loved timber framing. Taking a class one day is on my bucket list. Where abouts are you all located? If you add it to your profile, we'll always know where you are at when you ask questions.As far as sawdust and welding, whats your thoughts on fire? Hot sparks and tinder dry sawdust is just asking to burn the place down.  I've seen hot BB from welding smolder for a long time in dry leaves, grass or sawdust before a stray breeze fans the flames and gets the ball rolling. Almost all the woodworkers I know who use the wood shop for welding are absolutely anal about cleaning up sawdust. Most have everything in cabinets or stored in another room so there is nowhere for dust to hide. That includes under shelves and so on. Many take a leaf blower to the whole shop to remove any sawdust that might be lurking out of sight when done wood working as well as before starting to do any hot work.Unless you can set things up so that sawdust is not collecting, this simply sounds like a bad idea. The church next to the college where I take my blacksmithing courses, the original blacksmithing shop when they built the church was next door to the carpenters shop. Well the blacksmiths managed to burn down both shops one night. After that the blacksmiths got exiled all the way to the far end of the grounds away from everyone else. When the college wanted to start the blacksmithing program, they originally wanted to use the old blacksmith shop. The 100 year old wood framed building didn't impress their insurance people, so the classes are now held in the old steam building where the big boilers used to be because the building is all brick, concrete and stone..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Well damn. Haha, I kinda knew that was gonna be the answer, I just really wanted it to be the opposite...I can always do my hot work out in our lot and just get some really long leads, so the idea isn't dead yet! Our company is pretty low key, so having a "watch" isn't really practical for our purposes. I think I might be okay for smaller projects, cause I have about a 15x15 area with the bay door that I could close off from the rest of the shop. I'm probably gonna adopt that space anyway, since it's pretty much useless for the bulk of our work and it'd be nice to have a little shop to work on my project 240z.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWCool I've always loved timber framing. Taking a class one day is on my bucket list. Where abouts are you all located? If you add it to your profile, we'll always know where you are at when you ask questions.
Reply:I work for a company that manufacturers wood products. we have about 65,000 sq feet counting warehouse. We have a fairly clean building (as clean as you can get with dust in the air)and a large dust collector. I do maintenance there and have to weld things there once in awhile. I mostly make sure the surrounding area is fairly clean and have never had any trouble. I only mig so that makes a big difference on sparks. I did have problems in our finish room one time with the dust that was behind one of the spray booths. I was about 25' up in the air and welding on some dirty stuff and of course I was getting more sparks then normal and the overspray dust/powder caught on fire. That started pretty easy in my book, fire ext put it right out. With out seeing your shop its hard to say but if I had a 15' dia clean area and was only welding small stuff with a mig I would do it. But then thats me!Common sense  goes a long way
Reply:Post 1: should I do this?Post 2,3,4: no, no, noPost 5: ok I'll do it Or at least that's how I read it My neighbor burned down his shop by sparks going out the door starting the dry grass on fire.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I would evaluate your current sawdust pickup or dust collection system to see if that could be improved. Maybe fans running constantly at the welding area to maintain a positive pressure to try to prevent the dust from migrating over to weld area. You could always use a water mist or hose to wet the area down first. Laying welding blankets down could help.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDavePost 1: should I do this?Post 2,3,4: no, no, noPost 5: ok I'll do it Or at least that's how I read it
Reply:if it a very fine saw dust like from sanding and is up in the air and rafters it can blow up from a spark .post a pic of the area you thinking of working it. if its a big clean shop just be smart and safe about it.
Reply:OP, where are you going to get your BS in WE?
Reply:Originally Posted by TimberFramerHey, been reading on here for a while and decided to start posting, so HEY!Anyways, on to my annoying questions that I should know the answer to:I've been working in a shop that builds timber frame trusses (hence the name) while I'm going to school for my Welding engineering BS and my boss and I have been talking about using my welding abilities to do some decorative steel work and other stuff like that. It's right up our alley as far as what we produce and would obviously be awesome for me. In our shop there's a small ramp out to a bay door that would be perfect to set up as a small fab shop (I'll try to get pictures tomorrow to show the area a little better), but I'm really worried about the amount of sawdust we produce. I was thinking about hanging a big fireproof blanket to separate my welding off (again, pictures 'll help show). But with us cutting with chain saws and stuff all day almost every day, the dust gets everywhere. Do you guys think it's a big deal if there's some sawdust around when you're welding? I'd be sure to sweep out my area before striking an arc, but there's only so much you can do. I really want to start this, cause it would mean a big raise for me and getting to start welding at work. On the other hand, I'd like to try my best not to burn the building down. Cause, you know, that would suck and stuff.Thanks for reading my unnecessarily long question!!
Reply:Sounds like new product and expansion for your company. Great! Now make the investment on a new metal sided pole barn!
Reply:Recommendation....NO!Is your fire insurance good and paid up?
Reply:Originally Posted by Bosco99Sounds like new product and expansion for your company. Great! Now make the investment on a new metal sided pole barn!
Reply:We have burned some good holes is the side wall curtains of our free stall barns after welding on things and all seems well than few hours later the sawdust bedding would flare up. Now the stall get cleaned before welding and then the area get hosed down after weldingMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:There are two kinds of woodworking shops. The kind that has had fire incidents, and the kind that's going to. Get a 20" shipping container, put it in the yard, add fireproof flooring, electricity, good lights, welder, metalworking tools, keep any sawdust out and weld as much as you like. Even if there is a fire in it, the rest of the buisiness is safe some distance away (or it gives the fire department valuable minutes at least), and there really shouldn't ever be enough flammable materials in there to create a dangerous situation.
Reply:Okay, I don't think I quite explained my plans, sorry. I'll be doing all of my bigger projects outside in our lot, cause my area is realistically pretty small.Here's a picture of the area in question:It's small. It's only a 15x15 popout from the rest of the building. I'd be putting in some kind of door to seal off the bay area from the rest of the shop, as there's no way to keep saw dust out from beyond there. I'm thinking that a simple heavy, fireproof blanket draped down would be good enough. The majority of what I'm gonna be doing will be small details for our timber jobs. So it'd suffice to work in there with the bay door open and the popout closed off from the rest of the shop. Door opens up to our lot, so I could just get some long leads and work out there for anything big. So what's the opinion on some sort of door/curtain to seal my welding off from the timber shop? Obviously a lot needs to get cleaned up around there before I could even start anything. If nothing else, I'm just gonna take the space to work on my Datsun, cause it's a free shop essentially. Attached ImagesLast edited by TimberFramer; 02-05-2015 at 09:26 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by TimberFramerOkay, I don't think I quite explained my plans, sorry. I'll be doing all of my bigger projects outside in our lot, cause my area is realistically pretty small.Here's a picture of the area in question:It's small. It's only a 15x15 popout from the rest of the building. I'd be putting in some kind of door to seal off the bay area from the rest of the shop, as there's no way to keep saw dust out from beyond there. I'm thinking that a simple heavy, fireproof blanket draped down would be good enough. The majority of what I'm gonna be doing will be small details for our timber jobs. So it'd suffice to work in there with the bay door open and the popout closed off from the rest of the shop. Door opens up to our lot, so I could just get some long leads and work out there for anything big. So what's the opinion on some sort of door/curtain to seal my welding off from the timber shop? Obviously a lot needs to get cleaned up around there before I could even start anything. If nothing else, I'm just gonna take the space to work on my Datsun, cause it's a free shop essentially.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDavePost 1: should I do this?Post 2,3,4: no, no, noPost 5: ok I'll do it Or at least that's how I read it My neighbor burned down his shop by sparks going out the door starting the dry grass on fire.
Reply:this is a mistake and I did not see a way to delete it.Last edited by Knick; 02-06-2015 at 05:50 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by roadkillbobbsawdust along with many other materials in a floating dust form are EXPLOSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!! remember the sugar factory that blew up down south a few years ago....dont do it...its not even the spark catching and smoldering..its far worse if it goes BOOM....
Reply:Originally Posted by KnickDave What are your thoughts on the grass fire?  was he welding outside or near a open door?  sounds like he should have been inside on a concrete floor.
Reply:It seems to me, for that area you could wall it off with some sheet metal siding tin with a top on it and be OK. That would take a minimal investment in material for the peace of mind that the dust is kept out to make for a safer welding area. You would only need to construct two walls to close off the area. Either build them all the way to the roof, or make a top over the walls to keep saw dust from settling in from above.I don't see any issues with that work space after it's de cluttered.Like Knick said, common sense goes a LONG ways with something like this. As long as major dust is kept out of the work area and reasonable care exercised, I can't see much burning up in the pics I saw. My garage is no different and I've been working out of it for the better part of 15 years. My walls aren't made of concrete tho For sure have fire extinguishers easily available, but that's a given in a place like that. I have like three within a 20' X 22' work area and feel pretty safe with that. I second putting a wall up at some point, but we also haven't seen the reverse angle of those pics detailing how far away it is from the main wood working area. Until then, I may be a good idea to blow the area out with compressed air if there's any residual dust buildup present. If your employer is serious about a welding work area, a trip to any big box store will solve the wall problem. Pole barn siding and some studs will do the job cheap. Do a good job on the framing and you may only have to shoot a couple Hilti fasteners into the concrete to hold it up.You could even frame in a wooden or outdoor rated man door found on the clearance/scratch & dent aisle. A welding blanket will get you by for now.Again, reasonable care and common sense get the job done. If we had to have perfect, ideal circumstances for every welding job out there, none of us would prolly be working.IMHO of courseExpert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:Originally Posted by TimberFramerOkay, I don't think I quite explained my plans, sorry. I'll be doing all of my bigger projects outside in our lot, cause my area is realistically pretty small.Here's a picture of the area in question:It's small. It's only a 15x15 popout from the rest of the building. I'd be putting in some kind of door to seal off the bay area from the rest of the shop, as there's no way to keep saw dust out from beyond there. I'm thinking that a simple heavy, fireproof blanket draped down would be good enough. The majority of what I'm gonna be doing will be small details for our timber jobs. So it'd suffice to work in there with the bay door open and the popout closed off from the rest of the shop. Door opens up to our lot, so I could just get some long leads and work out there for anything big. So what's the opinion on some sort of door/curtain to seal my welding off from the timber shop? Obviously a lot needs to get cleaned up around there before I could even start anything. If nothing else, I'm just gonna take the space to work on my Datsun, cause it's a free shop essentially.
Reply:Maybe the owner should consult with insurance carrier to see IF there is any small print. Not being a smart a$$ , BUT ?
Reply:Here's the back side of my area looking into our shop. We do most of our cutting pretty far from here, but we're a small shop. We have pretty good ventilation (the building used to be a meat processing plant), so it really only gets dusty in here when it's super cold outside and none of the doors are open and our fans are off. And those dust collectors aren't being used (don't ask me why...) so it wouldn't be a bad idea to get those up and running. We're doing a lot of work right now to get the place a little less clutterd (it was hell before) so when I'm actually working here it'll be a lot better. Steel siding is a great idea, I'll definitely be doing something along those lines. That room has a sealed off roof, all that connects it to the shop is that doorway. So my plan now is: Seal off doorway, clean out the crap and the outside area, steel siding, throw one of our fans in the ceiling of my room, and fix the power going to the 220v in there (it has a wonky breaker and there's no 110v outlets there). Thanks for the help guys, and sorry about the initial confusion haha. We're all pretty excited about being able to do this now (a dick who left a while ago shot me down all the time), but I'm the only one who knows anything about metal work here, so I wanted to be safe with how we went about it.
Reply:looks like alot of fun to me
Reply:Your gonna have a fire.35 years on the Fire Dept.
Reply:No question, verify current fire insurance covers welding.  Next big issue, if your firm leases the space, does the lease permit welding?  Operations not approved under terms of the lease tend to piss landlords off in a hurry.Regards
Reply:Originally Posted by farmer37Your gonna have a fire.35 years on the Fire Dept.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmer37Your gonna have a fire.35 years on the Fire Dept.