First time TIG--what to start out with?

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Hi names Luke and new to forum. I have stick/MiG welder before and have wanted to TIG weld for the longggest time and just recently picked up the new AlphaTig 200x. I know TIG takes a lot of time patience and practice to be good and proficient but I have every bit of confidence in myself that I can eventually be able to throw down nice welds on various materials. Just lookin for advice on what to start on. Just go get some steel from hardware store? Best thickness for a newbie? Argon CFM? Right tungsten size for thickneas and amps? Any little input would be a help, even better for those of you that have this machine and wanna chime in. Thanks!
Reply:I think the best thing to start on is a piece of 1/8 or 3/16 aluminum plate, and just stack beads.  Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Some people suggest learning on alum, I prefer steel. With alum you have to do everything fast and at high amps. When things start to go south with alum, your answer is usually to add amps and go faster to outrun the fact the material is heating up so you can get back into cooler material. Going slower just lets the plate heat up more and makes things worse.With Steel if you start to have problems, you can back off the amps and slow down and the puddle will cool and get smaller and back under control. I see a lot of students who when things get wrong with alum, start to get flustered and forget the basics. After that it's going to crash and burn.You might want to read post 4 of mine in this thread. I cover doing basic tig pretty well in the quote. This is how we teach people to tig at the tech school. Once they get the basics of arc length, travel speed, torch angle, pedal control and filler down, they can move on and try alum.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ng-to-tig-weld.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Right on. I might just try alum. And start with basing off the chart in the Miller guidelines book. Little confused as to what type tungsten to use for alum tho. 2% ceriated or pure??
Reply:I believe my machine (AHp alphatig) is an inverter type? Says in guidelines book that pure tungsten is not good for inverters?
Reply:Originally Posted by Lelliott22I believe my machine (AHp alphatig) is an inverter type? Says in guidelines book that pure tungsten is not good for inverters?
Reply:Try 2% lanthanted for aluminum. You can also use it on steel.With my AHP I've used 2% lanthanated (blue), 2% thoriated (red), pure (green), and E3 on aluminum. Can't really tell the difference though. I also ball the tungsten sometimes since I learned on a syncrowave 350. YMMVSent from my S4 using Tapatalk1988 Big 50 Diesel CC/CV1982 Weldanpower 225/2101968 SAE 300 motor generatorMaxstar 200SD2015 AHP 200x"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
Reply:Hardware stores for material as a last resort, just too expensive.  Hit up every metal shop around and quickly spell it out that you want scraps for home practice.  Hopefully someone will offer you a chunk of something.  Any thickness will do to learn the basics.  Agree that you should start out on mild to learn the basics.
Reply:For quick practice I did the hardware store thing. And I agree it's expensive but you have to make it worth it. Get some 1/8" thick, 1" wide and as long as they have. Cut them down to 3 or 4" strips. Remove the mill scale and start welding lap, t, butt joints. When they are all done just keep stacking themTorchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by Lelliott22Right on. I might just try alum. And start with basing off the chart in the Miller guidelines book. Little confused as to what type tungsten to use for alum tho. 2% ceriated or pure??
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWWith Steel if you start to have problems, you can back off the amps and slow down and the puddle will cool and get smaller and back under control. I see a lot of students who when things get wrong with alum, start to get flustered and forget the basics. After that it's going to crash and burn.
Reply:Originally Posted by fpsAs someone who has gone through (and still going through) the learning process……Please, start with steel. There are way too many things to learn with AL, besides that it can “SEEM” very easy, and then be so very difficult, you get frustrated and give up. As least within reason, steel stays consistently the same. “Moderator” couldn’t be more “right on”.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonWhatever you feel comfortable with do it.
Reply:Ya I'll just start with steel. I work at a lumber mill and the maitanace
Reply:Ya I'll just start with steel. I work at a lumber mill and the maitanace guys have some 2% Thor 3/32 tungsten I can use to start out with and I believe some filler too. If I'm just laying beads on flat surface what's good cup size? And I don't believe there is anyware near me to go and buy tungsten filler ect. So what's a good site to purchase stuff from? I've been on a bunch but wouldn't mind some recommendations
Reply:You should try to get in contact with a local weld shop or other metal working shop and see if you can buy some scrap off them. Buying steel at full price to just practice on will get expensive. They may even give you some scrap pieces.
Reply:A #7 or #8 is a good all around cup size for tig. If you are going to invest in parts, I'd look at getting yourself a gas lens and associated parts. This lets you extend the tungsten out a bit farther at the same gas flow and be able to see the puddle a bit clearer. Once you have the basics down, you can retract the tungsten back in a bit, and be able to turn down your gas flow and maintain good gas coverage.I get most of my parts local. There are enough local places around me that do tig that the LWS near me keeps a reasonable supply of stuff on hand. If you are careful with the cups, they last a long time unless you drop them. Same goes with collets, collet bodies, gas lenses etc. While they are "consumables" the average person seldom needs to change them out. Usually if anything I have to grab a spare because I've misplaced the parts when changing tungsten sizes, but that is very rare..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:You know, when I use my own TIG rig on jobsites, I usually go through the whole job without having to change out any parts, except a gas lens or two when the fitters don't clean the galvanizing off parts good enough. But for some reason, if I'm using jobsite provided rigs, and other people are using them too, I have to change out collets almost daily when I first get my torch ready. I have no idea how everyone else constantly mangles them up!Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Reply:Ya I'll have to do some research around my area and see if there are any places to buy parts or consumables and what not. I'm sure there are, but probably a little bit of a drive as I kinda live in the sticks haha. Also if I sharpen tungsten right and am welding DC mild steel and all goes well how often do I need to cut and re grind tungsten?
Reply:Originally Posted by TheBFAYou know, when I use my own TIG rig on jobsites, I usually go through the whole job without having to change out any parts, except a gas lens or two when the fitters don't clean the galvanizing off parts good enough. But for some reason, if I'm using jobsite provided rigs, and other people are using them too, I have to change out collets almost daily when I first get my torch ready. I have no idea how everyone else constantly mangles them up!Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonThe cheap chinese soft copper collets are usually to blame for mangling. I started off long ago with Linde collets which I believe were beryllium copper alloy and lasted a very long time. After Union Carbide went bust and Linde along with it I just ordered whatever Airgas had which was Radnor chinese soft copper collets and they were horrible. I then went to CK wedge collets which were better but still did not hold up to heat well. Then WeldTec clued me into their domestically made high performance collets made from tellurium copper alloy. Weldcraft also had a line of high performance collets. They cost about twice as much, but problem solved. I get at least 1000 hours out of each one. Sometimes they will wear out a gas lens which dies of after a few hundred hours.My aircooled torches demand high performance collets.
Reply:Originally Posted by Weld_Weldtech makes super products they are a pain in the to  source
Reply:Originally Posted by Lelliott22Also if I sharpen tungsten right and am welding DC mild steel and all goes well how often do I need to cut and re grind tungsten?
Reply:Originally Posted by Lelliott22Also if I sharpen tungsten right and am welding DC mild steel and all goes well how often do I need to cut and re grind tungsten?
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonThe cheap chinese soft copper collets are usually to blame for mangling. I started off long ago with Linde collets which I believe were beryllium copper alloy and lasted a very long time. After Union Carbide went bust and Linde along with it I just ordered whatever Airgas had which was Radnor chinese soft copper collets and they were horrible. I then went to CK wedge collets which were better but still did not hold up to heat well. Then WeldTec clued me into their domestically made high performance collets made from tellurium copper alloy. Weldcraft also had a line of high performance collets. They cost about twice as much, but problem solved. I get at least 1000 hours out of each one. Sometimes they will wear out a gas lens which dies of after a few hundred hours.My aircooled torches demand high performance collets.Originally Posted by TheBFAI don't think they could have been made with copper beryllium unless this was back in the day when nobody cared about safety haha. The lockpin pullers for the rotor blades on the navy H-60s were made of that and there is a huge warning in the maintenance manuals that you can't heat, grind or sand on them because it is carcinogenic.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonPerhaps you could call or email them direct for a source. Or perhaps they will sell direct. Here is a link for the homepage, parts list for 20 style torch, and 17 style torch.http://www.tectorch.com/http://www.tectorch.com/PDF/Product%...ts%20guide.pdfhttp://www.tectorch.com/PDF/Product%...ts%20guide.pdf
Reply:Originally Posted by Weld_Hey thanks for that.  the only place I know that sells them online is weldfabulous and they have to order them so thats an additional amount of time.  Weldtech is by far better in a lot of areas then CK or Weldcraft which is what I prefer to use because it's convenient.
Reply:I simply choose convenience over having to deal with the company that makes it difficult to get their products.  If I ordered things once a year it would be a different story but I ordered things weekly.    And let's not forget CK  is not exactly bottom of the barrel.   and since you brought up trimline ck's  TL it's one of my favorite aircooled torches.
Reply:Originally Posted by Weld_Weldtech makes super products they are a pain in the to  source
Reply:for weldtech its a 3 day wait.......they don't stock anything of theres
Reply:I always start people off TIG on steel plates and if have enough scrap on stainless first.  Less crap, you can see well what your doing. Stainless shows how much heat you are putting into the part. When you mastered that THEN go to aluminum. Sent from my SCH-I605 using TapatalkRyanMiller Multimatic 200 tig/spool gun/wireless remoteMillermatic 350P, Bernard/XR Python gunsMiller Dynasty 350, Coolmate 3.5 & wireless remoteCK WF1 TIG wire feederMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeOptrel e684Miller Digital EliteMiller Weld-Mask
Reply:Interesting. My welding class taught us aluminum tig first and then we got to move to stainless then steel.  Worked for me as well as the other students any reason not to do this?
Reply:different metals means different types and techniques of welding. doesn't matter what you learn first on. if you want to do most you'll have to learn each metals characteristics and use those on that metal. learn stainless,steel,aluminum or whatever else you may like and the order you choose to learn should be a minimal factor.  the important stuff is to learn the metal and know how deep the puddle runs and filler application....I could go on and on but understanding a weld will help in learning of any type of metal.
Reply:Originally Posted by EvilBunnyInteresting. My welding class taught us aluminum tig first and then we got to move to stainless then steel.  Worked for me as well as the other students any reason not to do this?
Reply:It doesn't matter what you try first just know that aluminum is a lot harder to weld then steel 100%.  I'd start a newby on steel first then aluminum. Once you start getting the hang of aluminum it will make you a better welder very fast. Just remember your rod angle should be about 90 degree to the tungsten and try and keep the tungsten close to the work and when doing AL lift the torch just a little when dipping to prevent bumping. Just remember you need to control the aluminum not let it control you. And if you practice on small 1" it will heat up fast. I'd got with 2". Try and find a cool shop that will sell you clean scrap metal drops for a good deal. I usually pay 40 cents for steel and 2$ for aluminum. Aluminum can be tough your first few times so don't worry you'll get it
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonI have the WeldTec regional sales manager, Eric Frei stop by periodically leaving new product for evaluation. When he sees a CK item I have he pulls out their version out of his trunk and shows me why may be better. They did come out with a nozzle made from quartz that fits onto an o-ring and groove cut into a standard gas lens. As much as we tried we could not cloud it up like the pyrex cups. Until we dropped the torch and broke it that is. You can then remove the o-ring and screw on a standard ceramic cup which we did.