WTB: Entry-Level TIG machine

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Hello,I just purchased my first home and I'm interested in picking up a TIG machine as a garage-warming present to myself.  I'm not a  total newb with TIG, but I'm definitely looking forward to a lot of learning.  I'd like to pick up an entry-level TIG machine.  Something like a lincoln square wave TIG 175, precision tig 185, miller diversion 180 (maybe.  hate the hardwired torch), syncrowave 180/200, etc.Please let me know if you're selling or know someone who is.  I'm in SE Michigan.Thanks!-Joe
Reply:Joe,Just stay away from the imports no matter what.  They still have not resolved all of their issues and if you get a used on or one from a non dealer you will have no warranty at all.  Not good for machines that still have self destructive tendencies.  Just my .02 if you were wavering.  Stick with"Rred, Blue or Gray and you'll be OK'.  BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:That's reassuring. I've actually been considering an import.  At their price-point, they're hard for a newb to ignore.  I'd love to find something red or blue, but man, it's tough to find something locally.  And shipping is usually cost-prohibitive.
Reply:Do the research like i did. I bought one from Longevity,great deal,customer service,5 yr warranty. The anti import bashers are clowns that have never used one. You'll find very few legitimate complaints against imports vs the triple priced colored ones. I"m ordering a 200dx from Longevity monday for about 1k,millers version is around 3k. Do the research your self, you"ll find 1000s of overpriced,out of warranty,obsolete parts complaints against miller and lincoln, nuff said.Longevity 160sx Lincoln 140 miglincoln magnum spoolgunVictor torch and regulators
Reply:Stay away from Chinese machines. The history with them is they fail more than they work, some get lucky, most don't. Parts is another issue with all imports, will they be stocked an the LWS or will they need to travel around the world. Buy local as much as you can. A good condition used Miller Lincoln or Thermal Arc will out last any Chinese machine on the market today. Lastly look out for who you take advise from. Hog above has limited experience and little respect for anything including himself. http://alaskaslist.com/1/posts/9_Gen...50_Welder.htmlLast edited by Fat Bastard; 03-31-2012 at 02:42 AM.
Reply:To echo what fb said, I would wait on a used quality machine.  I would be patient and get a transformer-based TIG unit, like a Synchrowave or Precision TIG, if you can handle the current draw.Lincoln Powermig 255Hypertherm Powermax 45Thermal Arc 161SOxweld 24R OA TorchStill Looking for an Old Round Top Idealarc 250
Reply:I wouldn't tell someone to stay away from imports as they can be good machines, but you'll always have it in the back of your mind that if it does break you have to ship it back and wait at least 2 weeks for a repair unit.Millers and Lincolns are proven, however i'd stay away from the Diversion series since you can't stick weld with it, Lincoln doesn't make the PT 185 anymore, the SW175 replaced it because they had lots of problems with the 185. Syncrowaves are great machines, I use a 350 at work and love it, but have a Precision Tig 225 in my home shop and love that too.ESAB MigMaster 275Miller Econotwin HFMiller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardStay away from Chinese machines. The history with them is they fail more than they work, some get lucky, most don't. Parts is another issue with all imports, will they be stocked an the LWS or will they need to travel around the world. Buy local as much as you can. A good condition used Miller Lincoln or Thermal Arc will out last any Chinese machine on the market today. Lastly look out for who you take advise from. Hog above has limited experience and little respect for anything including himself. http://alaskaslist.com/1/posts/9_Gen...50_Welder.html
Reply:Puts the synchro wave to shame.....
Reply:Originally Posted by astaindsoul5446Check where they are made bud. im blue through and through but i am happy and impressed by the everlast i have. Puts the synchro wave to shame.....
Reply:It's a bit pathetic that weldingweb launches into a religious machine brand diatribe before even asking the relevant questions necessary to make a decision as to what machine would be best for the OP, like:* What range of metal types and thicknesses do you plan on welding?  (Specifically, what is the thickest and thinnest you will want to be able to weld?)* Do you plan on welding in just one location, or do you need to be able to move your machine around to weld in more than one location?  (How important is machine portability?)* What is the size of the electrical circuit (or unused circuit breaker capacity if you are going to wire a new circuit) for the welding machine?  ie., how many amps 240V circuit is available?* Is operation off 120V (for only limited thickness metals) useful to you?  (Note that machines offering this capability almost always do so at a "reduced capability" mode compared to 240V mode.)Depending to answers like the above, the answer of which machine type will be best (inverter vs. transformer) will differ, and so will the specific machines within those categories, and also the brands.
Reply:Originally Posted by hogDo the research like i did. I bought one from Longevity,great deal,customer service,5 yr warranty. .... You'll find very few legitimate complaints against imports vs the triple priced colored ones.
Reply:I've said it before and gotten some flack. But if you want to hit the floor running, there is no better tig(only) for learning, and that is the Miller Diversion series. Personally I like the Diversion 180 for it's dual current feature. I have set up high school students in my area and the Diversions are ridiculously simple, almost boring to me, but the kids take right to it.Anyhow the support from the millerwelds site is second to none, There is nothing wrong with the other offerings out there, I just like to start simple and master fast. If I can outgrow my equipment I reward myself with an upgrade.Not to impune the import stuff, but the resale on the domestic offerings are much better, especially if you have the opportunity to teach the buyer and impress them with what you have learned.I am waiting for the new Dynasty280(ez model) to come out this year. It is as stupid simple as the Diversions with the Dynasty arcwave features and remote programming. The front panel has an memory card port that the you can load parameters from the internet. For sure it is more money than the Diversions and much more than the imports, but I am doing well and feel like rewarding myself  for my garage workshop. Some people buy expensive cars, bikes, guns, I like tools.I will admit I am a Miller(blue) guy, but I hate to see a beginner buy equipment and not have the ability to make them work. Tig welding is very hard, and the bells and whistle offerings are best left when mastered the basics. Miller has addressed that.Good luck, and let us know how you decide.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:People tend to forget "payback period" when buying tools or anything else.That drops the cost per year to "not much". Motorcycle analogy:I bought my Harley in 1988 because I expected to keep it for life and knew parts would be available. I flogged it and kept it outdoors most of the time. Still do. Works fine. 8400 bucks new, cost per year with mods (not required but fun) and maintenance, not much at all.The very nice Japanese machines of that era are barely supportable because new parts aren't available in most cases. Either collect organ donors or accept long lead times and pay out the wazoo. Praise be to Allah for Ebay. Welder analogy:Systematic use of this website and Craigslist got me multiple commercial welding machines for cheap. It got me more cylinders and accessories than I really need, for stoopid cheap. The MigMaster 250 I bought new wasn't cheap, but it will easily last the next two decades after which I'll not likely need it. This strategy has worked for me for decades, and allows you to accumulate more and more quality gear to do what you wish instead of buying things twice or three times.Once you get enough tools, you can save yourself absurd amounts of money doing for yourself what others must pay to have done. Happiness is "no house note, no truck note, and more than enough support equipment to do things your way whenever you wish".Start early.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallFacts and specifics please. BTW it's spelled "Syncrowave".Unixgeek, what's your location and do you use a Craigslist aggregator to hunt equipment? Crazedlist works nicely for me.
Reply:See replies: Originally Posted by jakeruIt's a bit pathetic that weldingweb launches into a religious machine brand diatribe before even asking the relevant questions necessary to make a decision as to what machine would be best for the OP, like:* What range of metal types and thicknesses do you plan on welding?  (Specifically, what is the thickest and thinnest you will want to be able to weld?)Probably mostly mild steel and aluminum.  Maybe some stainless.* Do you plan on welding in just one location, or do you need to be able to move your machine around to weld in more than one location?  (How important is machine portability?)Mostly my garage.  I have a MIG machine I can lug around when I need to.* What is the size of the electrical circuit (or unused circuit breaker capacity if you are going to wire a new circuit) for the welding machine?  ie., how many amps 240V circuit is available?I'm flexible in this regard.  I'm currently gathering bits to wire the garage for 220V.  My house has 100A service so I was tentatively thinking the welder would get a dedicated 60A breaker.  But I am flexible.* Is operation off 120V (for only limited thickness metals) useful to you?  (Note that machines offering this capability almost always do so at a "reduced capability" mode compared to 240V mode.)I wouldn't say no to operating on 110V if it were an option, but it's not high on my list of options.Depending to answers like the above, the answer of which machine type will be best (inverter vs. transformer) will differ, and so will the specific machines within those categories, and also the brands.
Reply:A 100 amp electrical service for a single family residence having 60 amps of unused capacity is unlikely.  That would mean all the circuits of your home are only using 40 amps.Your house does have lights, receptacles, range (often the range needs 40 amps alone)?  Correct?  How about electric clothes dryer (30 amps)?  Electric water heater (30 amps)?How much of your 100 amp service is already used by all of your existing circuits?You should consult a licensed electrician, or your local building department if you are not certain how to determine this.  Performing unsafe electrical modifications without a required permit that cause a fire and loss of properly could result in the invalidation of a claim against your homeowner's insurance.Your 100 amp breaker box might not even have a "mains" breaker.  (Some of them do not, and adding excessive circuits in this this case could be particularly dangerous.)
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeruA 100 amp electrical service for a single family residence having 60 amps of unused capacity is unlikely.  That would mean all the circuits of your home are only using 40 amps.Your house does have lights, receptacles, range (often the range needs 40 amps alone)?  Correct?  How about electric clothes dryer (30 amps)?  Electric water heater (30 amps)?How much of your 100 amp service is already used by all of your existing circuits?You should consult a licensed electrician, or your local building department if you are not certain how to determine this.  Performing unsafe electrical modifications without a required permit that cause a fire and loss of properly could result in the invalidation of a claim against your homeowner's insurance.Your 100 amp breaker box might not even have a "mains" breaker.  (Some of them do not, and adding excessive circuits in this this case could be particularly dangerous.)
Reply:Late this summer, if you can wait that long, Miller will finally be delivering their new Dynasties. That will mean people will be upgrading thier Diversions, Dynasties, PrecisionTigs, Transformer tigs, and the lot.There is some exciting stuff hitting the market this year, culminating with the FabTech show in Las Vegas. The new stuff from Miller and ThermalArc will be worldbeaters IMO.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonLate this summer, if you can wait that long, Miller will finally be delivering their new Dynasties. That will mean people will be upgrading thier Diversions, Dynasties, PrecisionTigs, Transformer tigs, and the lot.There is some exciting stuff hitting the market this year, culminating with the FabTech show in Las Vegas. The new stuff from Miller and ThermalArc will be worldbeaters IMO.
Reply:Is it inappropriate to bump my thread because I'm still looking? bump
Reply:I have an 07 model syncrowave in Alabama i need to move so i can upgade my mig welder.  Its low time, 30 hours and looks as new. If you have any interest pm me but it is not an 800 dollar unit.TimJust some stuff in my shop.
Reply:Originally Posted by unixgeekIs it inappropriate to bump my thread because I'm still looking? bump