Upgrading my mig - MM252?

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I have a miller 210. It has been a good machine but I find it being my go to machine more and more and I want something more capable. I used to weld almost exclusively with stick but I have a lot of love for the metal hot glue gun.About the thinnest stuff I ever weld is 14ga. The bulk of my welding is 3/16" to 1/2" and I fairly regularly weld thicker stuff up to 3/4" and about 2" is the thickest I have ever tackled.I have been eyeing the miller 252 because it seems like it has a decent duty cycle and can do up to 1/2" in single pass. I have a small business and do repairs on my equipment and fabricate things that I use in the course of my work. Also part time hobby farm and weld on farm implements etc. Definitely not a welding shop or daily welding but probably welding weekly. Is the 252 a good fit? I don't want to get it and then later wish I bought more but at the same time I don't want to spend more than I need to. The next machine up the 350 doesn't seem like it offers any benefit to me over the 252 but I might be missing something. I plan on keeping this machine a long time.
Reply:If I had to upgrade, I'd look at a used XMT 304 with feeder myself. That would also allow you to do stick as well as DC tig if you wanted to. I've seen nice ones with feeder in the $1500-1800 range fairly often.I don't really NEED another stick or DC tig machine with what I already have, but for the money, I don't think I could find a better deal..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Both the 350P and the XMT 304 are inverters Both will run on single or three phase power.The XMT 304 is a plain CV and CC welder no built in extras. Need extra pulse control for pulse welding.The 350p has built in pulse and plain CV programs. Micro processor controlled.Can be easily switched from MIGGUN to spoolgun to push pull 15 to 30 foot gun.Just plug in and change the welder settings.If you don't need stick, the invision welder is a sister machine to the XMT 304.Invision is CV only. both the XMT and invision have 300 and 450 amp versions.350P is a 350 amp machine. All are good machines. Just depends on how much of the heavy plate welding you are going to do. You never want to run a machine at 100% output for long periods of time.
Reply:I never even looked at the XMT 304 and am not all all familiar with them. I have never TIG welded and have been welding for 20+ years so I don't think I will ever have a need to. At least I haven't yet.I do have a 300 amp inverter arc welder that I like (everlast power arc 300) and I also have a trailblazer 302 engine drive.The XMT might be nice I could sell my current inverter and just use it for both arc and mig. How difficult is it to set up? I often do both processes several times in the same day. What else would I need to buy with it to be able to do mig?Is it just capable of mig or does it do as good of or better job than the 252? Does it hold the large spools of wire?
Reply:Also I don't even know what pulse is so I probably don't need it and I think spool guns are for aluminum? I have never welded aluminum or really had a need to. All I do is a lot of stick and mig on steelLast edited by Drilldo; 03-05-2015 at 10:54 AM.
Reply:With the XMT you need a wire feeder such as a miller22 series or you could get a voltage sense feeder like a 12vs. One benefit with that setup is that you could also run the feeder off of your trailblazer.
Reply:Size of the spool of wire depends on the feeder used with an XMT. I think Steve uses the big 44 lb spools on his feeder, and in industrial applications I believe a feeder can be set up to feed out of a drum in need be. I think we use the 33lb spools mostly at the school, but I believe the feeders also take any of the standard size spools the MM 252 would as well as the bigger ones. Small 2lb spools might be an issue. I've never tried to load one of those in a full size feeder, but they would work in a spoolgun off an XMT with the adapter module if need be. Since you don't sound like you need a spoolgun, this probably won't matter to you. Spoolguns don't HAVE to be for alum. I actually use my spoolgun off my MM185 more often for solid wire steel or FC wire. The longer lead on the spoolgun allows me to get up in truck bodies to weld or weld on truck racks without having to raise the shop size mig like your MM212 up with the forklift or put it in the truck bed. It's more awkward to weld with, but I can more easily reach some things with the spoolgun. In many ways my suitcase feeder has started to take over part of this roll allowing me to just move the feeder and still weld with the standard mig gun.As far as swapping between stick and mig, it's as easy as disconnecting the dinse connectors from the front of the machine and plugging in the dinse from the feeder or stick lead. Then flipping the switch on the front panel to the appropriate process. I doubt it takes me more than 2 minutes to swap between mig and stick, and that includes wrapping up all the leads and turning on/off the gas.To do mig, you need the XMT 304 CC/CV power source, a feeder with gun, the flow meter and gas hosing ( plus cylinder of course). The XMT will run just about any VS style feeder, or any 14 pin Miller compatible feeder. Used I'd expect the feeder and parts to run you, $450-800+ depending on what you choose. I think the school uses the S22 feeders or the S52 feeders depending on which machine.The same feeder that will work off a trailblazer will work off an XMT 304 CC/CV.  I've used my Super S32P VS suitcase off them and my buddy runs his RC 12 suitcase off both his Trailblazer as well as his XMT. You may find the ability to use the feeder to run wire off both the TB and the XMT to be of value. Originally I bought my S32P with the intention of running it off a Bobcat or TB, but I've actually had more hours on it off an XMT. When I get the opportunity to upgrade ( read spare cash or a job that will pay for it) I'll just buy the power source and run my S32P unless the deal for power source and feeder are too good to pass up. I know the same spoolgun 15A/30A will work off both machines as well. I'd have to look up if they both use the same adapter module or not. I don't know that off the top of my head. Oh the tig pedal would swap between the TB and the XMT as well if you ever did want to go that route. So would the basic tig torch assembly.For stick, you just need the XMT and the leads for stick. Power source alone usually runs $1000-1400 used..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks. On the spool size as long as I can use ones like the ones in the 252 I will be fine. I was thinking these wire feeders were small things that took the 2lb spools. I hate dealing with those it seems like you spend more time changing them than welding. This seems like a really interesting setup and the ability to use it on my trailblazer is cool also.I like the idea of being able to move the feeder around as the 15' lead on my mig can be a pain.I already have leads for the stick, bottles for mig and regulator. I just need the machine.Is this setup as "good" as a dedicated mig machine like a 252 or are you giving up something for the for thr flexability?
Reply:I use a s-32p12 feeder which is s voltage sense unit and a s-22 p12 which is a remote control feeder. I prefer the vs feeder since there is one less cable to deal with. I use a 50 foot gas hose with extension hoses if needed. Ad for wire I can run 10 pound 8" spools or 33 -44 pound 12 " spools. The feeder is pretty manageable even with 44 pound spools, about 65 pounds give or take. I use mine on an XMT and a Lincoln ranger and much prefer the XMT over a mm252 which is a very nice welder in itself. For applications away from the power source I prefer the reach and ease of movement with the vs feeder.
Reply:Would this be a good wire feeder? http://m.cyberweld.com/suit12vswirf.htmlI see the XMT 350 is only a couple hundred bucks more than the 304. Since we are talking about 5k of stuff here does it make sense to spend the extra $200 on the 350?
Reply:That's the feeder that replaced the s32-p12. For 2-300$ more I would go with the 350. You might want to check local, sometimes they have better pricing. Also weldersupply.com has good pricing. That feeder should do what you need. You will also need some welding lead and gas hose as well. Miller may offer a package deal, wouldn't hurt to ask.
Reply:Given a choice I'd go with an XMT 350 over the XMT 304 if the difference is only $200 or so.You aren't giving up anything by going with an XMT over the MM252. That feeder is an excellent choice for both your Trailbazer as well as the XMT..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DWith the XMT you need a wire feeder such as a miller22 series or you could get a voltage sense feeder like a 12vs. One benefit with that setup is that you could also run the feeder off of your trailblazer.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder Dave Using CV is better than using voltage sensing if you have a choice.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWThat statement might confuse him since he's unfamiliar with feeders.  A better statement would be " Using CV is better than using CC with a voltage sensing feeder if you have a choice." There really isn't any difference I've seen between running my VS feeder off an XMT ( in CV mode) vs using the standard shop feeders. Many prefer to use a VS suitcase feeder to an RC type feeder, since you don't have that extra cable, and aren't limited in distance from the machine. Only down side to a VS feeder is that you can't adjust your voltage at the feeder, only at the power source. For many that really doesn't matter.
Reply:You are looking new, and it's understandable if you want to do that to avoid any issues with a used machine. However used could save you a fair amount of money.Even if you don't want to gamble on used for the machine, you might want to look at getting a feeder used. I picked up my Super S32P suitcase feeder, the predecessor of that Miller VS12, for $650. I've seen them as low as $450 on occasion. A Lincoln LN 25 would also be a good solid VS type feeder that would work with either machine. Lincoln's are funny. Prices range all over the board for them. I've seen them reasonably priced, or go for "oh my god", depending on the area. A lot of die hard Lincoln guys want nothing less. Another option would be one of the older Hobart Hefty VS feeders. They are not as common but still not a bad choice on a budget.You might check with these guys for used. They are higher than I see on CL, but the units are looked over before they sell them, so chances you'll get a bad machine is slim. I don't know if they offer a warranty on the units or not, I can't remember. I've bought a process selector from them in the past, and I believe other members have done business with them no problem. I think Steve, 7A749 here, has done business with them in the past several times. (If you want a shop feeder vs a suitcase, Steve's rebuilt Miller feeders are top notch. He's got a few threads on his rebuilds here.) Sutton Garton show both used XMT's and used 12VS feeders right now on their list. If I had to put my hands on a used feeder and machine right now vs keeping my eyes open on CL, they'd be one place I'd look.http://welding.suttongarten.com/view...ing-equipment?You might also take a minute and add your location to your profile so we know where you are all the time. Many guys browse CL, and if they know you are looking, they may pass a long a link to something in your area. Several members have picked up nice machines that way that they wouldn't have been aware of otherwise.I don't know what you do for a living, so I can't say what would work best for you. For me, the ability to use the same feeder off both the TB and the shop machine would rank high in my thoughts. Even if you choose the MM252, you might keep an eye out for a used suitcase feeder anyways. Since I don't weld full time for a living, I couldn't justify either of your choices new. For me it would have to be one or the other used. Used price wise, I could probably manage getting both at about the same price range, with the advantage probably going to the XMT since I already have a VS feeder I could use with it. I also have used the XMT extensively to help teach students at the tech school. I really like the arc in both mig and stick and it's also an excellent Tig machine. As I mentioned earlier, even though I don't need another stick or tig machine ( I have a Syncrowave 200, Maxstar 200DX, Miller Tbolt AC/DC that I could rig for scratch start tig if I really wanted) I still wouldn't mind the added ability of that on an XMT. Even though I don't really need the higher output of the XMT over the MM252, I'd still opt for an XMT to upgrade my mig. A big part of that is I've just found the size of my current cabinet style mig limiting and I'd much rather be able to use a suitcase feeder for some of the odd things I end up needing to work on occasionally. I'll admit I'm biased towards the XMT's..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Another option would be a refurbished Miller Maxtron from Steve ( 7A749) .
Reply:I have an old Shop Master in the shop and a Trail Blazer on the truck. I run an S52 feeder in the shop, with 75' of lead. I have a VS 12 suit case and a spool gun that can be used on the Trail Blazer or off the Shop Master if the S52 ever fails. (which t hasn't in the 28 years I've had it) The ability to move feeders around to different machines if need be is very much worth having besides the fact that they are so much more mobile.