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I would like to add a lathe to my shop arsenal. I have used one in the past but by no stretch of the imagination am i an expert, so I am looking for some help, what I am looking for is something small to mid sized, power feed??? around the $1500- $2000 price range. would love to see some pictures and hear about the capabilities of what you guys have.Last edited by steeleman; 02-19-2013 at 05:38 AM.Reason: spelling
Reply:If it were me I would look around for an old monarch or atlas even if its three phase you can get an inverter they were both solidly made and aesthetically more pleasing but then I love any really old industrial machines .....also I should have asked first how much floor space are you willing to loose? And are you going to make small parts as in no more than 6" in diam or larger say 16" diameter?
Reply:It doesn't matter what size you get... you'll find that it won't be big enough for some projects you want to do, and it'll be too big for other projects you want to do... {I like the South Bend 13" that I have, with its quick-change gearbox, over my Grizzly, that has change gears that you have to swap out. Look for something with a gearbox.}The soldering toys pay for the welding toys.Hakko 928 dual iron, 4xHakko 936Madell 850D Hot Air SMT ReworkMiller 252, HTP Invertig 201 AC/DC, and a Hypertherm 45.
Reply:so with a quick change gear box, you can change speeds eaiser? spindle speed, feed speed or both? as far as floor space, thats not a big issue and size wise I would like to be able to turn 12" diameter
Reply:Southbend, Atlas, Logan, are all decent Southbend would be my choice.I have a Atlas without a quick change gearbox and its not really a big big deal for me I dont use the lathe dailey or even weekley sometimes so taking and extra 15 minutes to set up change gears on the rare chance I need to thread is not a huge deal. Spindle speeds are done buy moving the belt. I got a really good deal on my lathe and would have been a fool to pass it up becacuse no gear box. Also I can add one anytime to my lathe just buy one off ebay never have felt that the $500.00 was necessary though.Donnelly Small Engine & WeldingFoley AlabamaLincoln 225 TigLinoln 215 migHypertherm Powermax 65Ellis 1600 sawEllis 6000 belt grinderJD2 Model 4 tubing benderAtlas 12"X54" metal latheLots of large hammers
Reply:A very good choice would be a South Bend Heavy 10 if you can find one that hasn't been used up. A 10" swing will accommodate most average work, but where it really shines is in the spindle bore 1 3/8". That means you can put a shaft through the spindle up to 1 3/8". I also have a 16" lathe with a 2 1/4" bore which I don't use nearly as much. Always look for one with a quick-change gearbox for threading and try to get as much tooling with it as you can because the tooling makes the lathe. You can spend as much on tooling as you did on the lathe. As long as you own a lathe, you will be looking and buying tooling. Each additional tooling makes the lathe that much more versatile.
Reply:Here's a couple of pictures of my Heavy 10. The only thing I would advise is to have someone who knows lathes look at it with you as they will know what to look for as far as wear is concerned. These heavy 10's were in a lot of machine shops and could have considerable wear up close to the chuck. It is hard to do accurate work with a worn out lathe. This lathe with a little tooling and in good shape will run in the $2,000-2,500 range.. Attached Images
Reply:Well...12" turning and 12" swing, or in the case of a South Bend Heavy 10 a bit over 10", are two separate matters. To turn 12" you're going to need a fairly large swing lathe to accommodate that chunk of metal unless you were thinking of using a face plate and only a few inches of metal sticking out from that face plate. Lighten up on your size demands and that South Bend Heavy 10 would be an excellent choice with good power feeds, ability to use a common 5C collet set-up, easy parts availability and rather more robust construction than typically found on most of the older 9"-10" lathes so running carbide tooling would be much more practical and not just a dream.As far as tooling goes, it was mentioned that it can cost as much as the lathe. I would say that would be a gross underestimation.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:yea, that heavy 10 looks like it would work great. nice looking machine, anyone know of one for sale in the PA area?
Reply:Whatever lathe you get (all good ones listed so far...the SBs, Logans, Atlas...I'd also add in Sheldon, Cincinatti, Hardinge, and Monarch). Definitely get one with a quick change gear box. If you can find one, it is also highly desirable to have one with a taper attachment (or at least one where taper attachments are readily available for it on ebay, etc...). I would have to say that the tooling probably costs about twice what the machine costs if you are going for high quality (Aloris toolpost, Bison Set-Tru chucks, Ingersol tool holders and inserts, etc...). It adds up very quickly. My Sheldon 11x56 cost me $1500...I probably have at least $2500 in tooling into it already and more on the way. One thing when looking at used lathes is to learn how to check the spindle for play and runout *before* buying. It doesn't do you any good to find out the spindle is shot after you buy it. Get a good indicator and holder and use it to check the spindle accuracy for any lathe you are interested in buying. Alot of the older lathes have non-adjustable bronze bearings for the head (or babbitt bearings in some cases) and it is not always easy or cost effective to find replacements. Make sure you check for damaged or overly worn ways as well.--WintermuteOhh yeah, and you'll really make your life easier if you find one with power feed on both the longitudinal and cross slide.Last edited by wintermute; 02-19-2013 at 02:05 PM."No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Visit the Practical Machinist forums and do some homework. They are a great resource for learing machine shop techniques, how to buy use machinery, etc.You want a quick-change box so you can cut threads and quickly change speeds/feeds. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/
Reply:What makes a metal lathe good is its speed, accuracy, repeatability and legit price.PlasmaCam CNC cutterLathe and Band SawClamps
Reply:And tooling availability
Reply:Don't forget Clausing. They made a lot of good machines and are still supported well. SB, Atlas, Logan all have plenty of spare parts to be had. I had a small Atlas /Clausing bought for $400 sold it for $500 which paid for a Logan 820 which I sold 3 yrs later for the same and bought my Clausing 6329 (12x36). I picked up a lot of tooling along the way. The $ you spend on tooling will eclipse the lathe price many times over.
Reply:Sherline. If you need to do huge part which most people do not this is a tough deal to beat.Somebody out there is going to say they got this K and T for $500 that was in new condition 5 minutes after they started looking for one. If you are that type of guy let me know and I will give you a few grand for it. It is the easiest money you will ever make.I don't have time or disposition to run all over looking at machinery and would like just get a new import lathe. I would probably save up a bit more cash though first.
Reply:My recommendation is to purchase the largest lathe that you can accommodate in your home shop. You will always come across a project that will be larger than your lathe can handle and you will wish you had a slightly bigger machine. Also, buy one that is turn-key, has no missing or broken parts, has no excessive wear and is ready to run. Quick change gears are a must. If I was to choose and recommend a lathe for a home shop, I would pick a 16 lathe as the best overall sized machine. Anything smaller just isnt large enough for many projects. Chucks and tooling for a 16 lathe are fairly common and reasonably priced. The antique style overhead belt drive machines are fine for a home shop. The older machines were designed and built sturdier and are much more rigid than the newer machines. There are plenty of reasonably priced older machines in the larger sizes. Buy bigger, you wont regret it.As far as spare parts go for the older machines, dont worry, there arent any, except maybe for a South Bend. Many of the manufacturers are long gone out of business (including SB). But that is why you buy a lathe that is complete, has no excessive wear and is turn-key. You have to make all broken or worn out parts. I havent broken a lathe part in over 40 years of operating. If you find a gear with a broken tooth, you pin it, shape it and make it work. If a gear bore is worn you make a bushing for it. That is about all I have ever had to do.Now for the most important consideration in buying a lathe, how much to spend. You can pick up larger older machines ready to run with motor, chucks and tooling for under $1000. This may vary due to geographic location but in the NE machines are quite common and available. There are plenty of good older machines out there, you just have to look for them.I currently own a 9" South Bend and a 20" 1917 Flather. I previously owned a 12" Hendey and an 18" Boye & Emmes. All were fine machines. I would stay away from the imports. The quality just isn't there. Atlas, Logan and Craftsman are on the lower end of quality and only good for making "tinker toys". (I'll get some flack for that comment). You sound like a good candidate for a 10-16" South bend. They are plentiful and good quality. A 12" Hendey is also an excellent machine.
Reply:I'll have to politely disagree with a portion of that post. The largest lathe you can get is a great idea the work you're going to do is going to be proportional to the lathe. Getting a 16" swing lathe when your primary work is going to be under 4" diameter would actually make your life more difficult from my experience.My 11" Sheldon does great work for what it's intended for...I'm not turning excavator bucket pins on it, but that's not what I do. It works wonderfully well for things in the 5" diam range and up to around 4' long. Most of my work is below that size range which is why I have that lathe. I do a decent amount of gunsmithing work and I can tell you that I'd really hate to have to chamber/thread a barrel, face or overbore an action on a 16" or larger lathe.If you're setting up a manual job shop, I would say that one lathe just isn't going to cut it (I'd want at least three...one with a 20" or larger swing, one in the 12-13" range, and one in the 9-10" range).I would recommend avoiding a 20" swing lathe as your only lathe if your primary work will be on the smaller side...one, there's shop space considerations to take into account, and two, working small pieces on a large lathe becomes difficult in both the setup areas and in attempting to get appropriate tolerances on a small part.Other portions of that post however, I agree with...especially the part about finding a lathe with all of it's parts there. Missing or broken components can take forever to find replacements for, or if you don't have the capabilities in your shop, they can be costly to have someone else make them.--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:For the money you want to spend you can get a New Grizzly 11" x 26" for around $1500.I don't know one way or another about these lathes except that I understand that they make the Southbend machines and they are about $1000 higher for a comparable machine.I would like to get some feedback on the Grizzly if anyone has some..
Reply:The new southbend machines are really nice...also priced appropriately for a new machine of that quality. The Grizzly machines are "okay" machines, but only for their higher end ones. The 11x26 isn't something that I would recommend. The G4003G and up though are decent machines...but substantially more than the OP wanted to spend. The ones below that I would really classify as hobby machines.--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Originally Posted by WFMMy recommendation is to purchase the largest lathe that you can accommodate in your home shop. You will always come across a project that will be larger than your lathe can handle and you will wish you had a slightly bigger machine. Also, buy one that is turn-key, has no missing or broken parts, has no excessive wear and is ready to run. Quick change gears are a must. If I was to choose and recommend a lathe for a home shop, I would pick a 16 lathe as the best overall sized machine. Anything smaller just isnt large enough for many projects. Chucks and tooling for a 16 lathe are fairly common and reasonably priced. The antique style overhead belt drive machines are fine for a home shop. The older machines were designed and built sturdier and are much more rigid than the newer machines. There are plenty of reasonably priced older machines in the larger sizes.I Buy bigger, you wont regret it.As far as spare parts go for the older machines, dont worry, there arent any, except maybe for a South Bend. Many of the manufacturers are long gone out of business (including SB). But that is why you buy a lathe that is complete, has no excessive wear and is turn-key. You have to make all broken or worn out parts. I havent broken a lathe part in over 40 years of operating. If you find a gear with a broken tooth, you pin it, shape it and make it work. If a gear bore is worn you make a bushing for it. That is about all I have ever had to do.Now for the most important consideration in buying a lathe, how much to spend. You can pick up larger older machines ready to run with motor, chucks and tooling for under $1000. This may vary due to geographic location but in the NE machines are quite common and available. There are plenty of good older machines out there, you just have to look for them.I currently own a 9" South Bend and a 20" 1917 Flather. I previously owned a 12" Hendey and an 18" Boye & Emmes. All were fine machines. I would stay away from the imports. The quality just isn't there. Atlas, Logan and Craftsman are on the lower end of quality and only good for making "tinker toys". (I'll get some flack for that comment). You sound like a good candidate for a 10-16" South bend. They are plentiful and good quality. A 12" Hendey is also an excellent machine.
Reply:Just a note for the new people...the South Bend lathes that are now produced are a product line brought out by the owner of Grizzly Tools after he bought the company name, remaining parts inventory, casting molds and assorted paperwork from whatever was left of South Bend after it had been sold previously to another lathe manufacturer after bankruptcy. None of the South Bend manufactured these days are made in the U.S. as they are sourced from Taiwan. To be fair, the original South Bend company was sourcing castings from overseas as well during their final years of operation.When the lineup was being originally filled out the larger lathes seem to be advanced, but along came the first new design, the 10K, that fell flat on it's face comparatively. The spindle bore on the 10K is a miniscule .86" which can be viewed under an even more damning light if you compare it with the next new product offering the 8K, a 2" smaller swing lathe with a spindle bore of 1 1/8". As yet, the new version of the Heavy 10 has not been introduced. Let's hope that it is designed more along the lines of the 8K. As far as the eventual price, it's anyone's guess, but the last of the true Heavy 10s built by the original South Bend Corp. were offered for sale a number of years ago in the $15K range.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:In my area I see alot of Craftsman lathes for sale, any opinion those?They're usually on the smaller side, 6" to 9".Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:dubl_t,For small work, the craftsmans are decent little hobby lathes. I don't know if they were made with quick change gear boxes, but if they were, you'd want one with the quick change. Keep in mind that you'll be limited to small parts and hobby type work with one of the little craftsman lathes. Don't expect that machine to take a heavy cut out of a piece of steel and don't expect it to give you super precision work without alot of fiddling.If you are looking for a little hobby machine though, there are much worse ways you could go (like a 7x12 chinese made machine). One rule which always holds true is that good tooling makes a difference. Buy some nice carbide insert tooling, a high end toolpost, the proper inserts for what you're cutting, and good setup tools/chucks and you'll be alot happier running the machine.I'd go with a 9" if you could find it instead of a 6". I'd also look around to see what newer high end chucks you could get for it (I think bison may make something that would work). Also, if you're looking at machines in that size, you could check out littlemachineshop.com to see what toolposts they have available if you can't afford a true Aloris AXA or similar.--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:I agree that the Craftsman is a really nice hobby machine. A.lot better made than the ubiquitous smaller imports. However, you have to be careful about carbide tooling with a lathe that size. A lot of the brazed carbide tooling is made with a neutral rake which requires more HP than Craftsman can supply. There is indexable.tooling out there set up for smaller lathes but from a cost and utility standpoint., a handful of HSS blanks and a bench grinder are the way to go.
Reply:Thanks for the Craftsman follow-up. They're "affordable" and available, so we'll see.Re: "hobby" use, I imagine just that. One area though I see a need is threading. From what I've read this isn't doable with all lathes?Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....threading is do-able. You have to understand what you're doing though and the lathe has to have a threading dial (unless you want to reverse it the carriage out with the half-nut lever engaged, or only do threads that are evenly divisible by the pitch of your lead screw). Probably the biggest problem in my mind would be the minimum rotation of the lathe being too fast and making it difficult to stop the thread when you want with consistency. My Sheldon has a low-end back gear speed of 50rpm which is very nice for threading. I've done some threading on a lathe where the slowest speed was around 150rpm and I gotta tell you it wasn't fun, but it wasn't impossible either.--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Just to give you a little insight on the cost, I bought the South Bend Heavy 10 pictured in my previous post from the second owner and I knew the history of it and it was in like new condition. I thought I over paid at $3500.00 at the time, but there were a lot of people who wanted it and that's what it took. The up side is that it came with almost every attachment you could buy from South Bend and almost all the tooling you would need. Considering it had little to no wear on it, I think I got a great deal. It has done 90% of the lathe work I do, but I had a need for a bigger one so I bought a 16" Grizzy brand new about twenty five years ago. I don't do the big stuff I used to do so it's pretty much in retirement, but it was/is a good lathe. I have owned about six lathes constantly upgrading until I got these two and I quite looking as I figured these were all I needed. My point is look in the 10-12" range and that should handle most if not all of your needs. If a better one comes along, upgrade, you can generaly get your money back if you didn't pay way to much in the first place.
Reply:i'd suggest:13" LeBlond regal ( something from 1960's to 1980's. NOT the antique ones with the threaded spindleand 600rpm top speed , and the amusing but non-functional rpm calculator on the headstock)13" South Bend - again, don't punish yourself by getting a freakin' relic . a 'modern' version - post 1950'swith a twin-tumbler gearbox , camlock spindle w/ 1.375 bore ,lever style clutch and underdrive motor .-an old lineshaft machine with separate changegears , tiny illegible dials ,star clutch, threaded spindle and homemade motor drive with a car transmission is not what i'd recommend to anyone . imho ,they suck if you have real work to accomplish - but what do i know- some people absolutely love them . they can be very cheap, i hate them.14" Takisawa TSL-800 . there are literally millions of these machines made since the 1960's . anolder japanese design , these are bulletproof machines , while technically an"import"they are nothing remotely like the modern garbage coming from china and the majority of taiwan . http://groups.yahoo.com/group/takisawa-tsl/ http://www.lathes.co.uk/takisawa/monarch 10ee- technically a 13" swing , this is considered the finest small lathe ever built .http://www.lathes.co.uk/monarch/page2.htmlMiller S60 feederCobramatic push/pull feederMiller CP-252tsLincoln Tig250/Tig250Lincoln weldpak 100 -italianC-H 90A- italianHarris & Victor O\Afull manual & CNC machine shop |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:06:31