FCAW Outershield first try

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I got a deal on some Ultracore 71A85. I tried it out yesterday, for the first time. This was also my first time using gas shielded FC wire. And I have very limited experience with FC self shielded.I do realize I didn't grind steel first. I had a little erratic feeding, but I think that was because this is .052" wire, and my gun liner was .045". I just wanted to try it since I had time. I am going to swap liners next time I play, to see if that was the issue.First pass was DCEP, 26V @ 375 ipm, C25. I was dragging and weaving. I guess I had the wfs too high, because of the high profile. I went off the Lincoln app for 1/4" steel. What the heck caused the worm holes?"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:The third pass I turned the wfs down to 330 ipm. It seemed to wet out a little better. But there was still a worm hole, and I'm not satisfied with result yet. Any suggestions?"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:What were you using for stickout length?Last edited by ironrail; 03-08-2015 at 01:44 PM.
Reply:Clean steel.Try 25 or 26v, 300ipmGas close to 40cfh.Slight drag.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:I would recomend 20 volts and 150 to 170 wire speed then make small adjustments from there. Keep your stickout length at 1".Operating Engineers Local 3Lincoln SA 200Victor TorchDewalt Grinder10 lbs SledgeWhat more do ya need!
Reply:Hello Stick-man, check out this link from Lincoln. You'll notice that it calls out for a considerable contact tip to work distance(25mm/1"),this is the same as ESO(electrical stick-out), then check-out the parameters suggested for the various welding positions. This wire is also rated to be used with up to 85% Argon in the shielding gas mix, as well as the 75/25 that you are currently using.I believe that this is one of Lincoln's newer wire offerings, I have personally not seen such a long stick-out for most gas-shielded flux-cored wires, self-shielded, yes, but not the gas-shielded ones. I would also agree with a bit of cleaning, however, normally flux-cored gas shielded wires are pretty tolerant of mill scale, rust, and certain other surface conditions. Good luck and best regards, Allan http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...1A85/c3126.pdfaevald
Reply:Originally Posted by Burnt GloveI would recomend 20 volts and 150 to 170 wire speed then make small adjustments from there. Keep your stickout length at 1".
Reply:Aevald, I have the consumables book, as well as the different guide's including the FCAW, in Evernote app on my iPhone. I looked at the first page of this wire in the Consumables book, (the same you posted), but I forgot to look at the second. Therefore, I forgot about the 1" stick out. I did try varying my stick out, and when I got over 1/2" it felt like it was starting to stub.  I know better to turn the wfs down, but I was kinda in a hurry and just wanted to preliminarily try it out. Next time I will set my volts, and stick out at 1", and then dial in the wfs until I get the sound and results I like, and compare that to the recommended settings in the book. Again, I will change the liner to try to fix the erratic feeding.I was running my C25 between 30 & 35 CFH. I will bump that up also. And I will try the varying recommended voltage/wfs settings from the other members here. I hope I can get to where I can run this wire well. I bought five rolls pretty cheap, and I might be able to get more. I would like to use it for the bucket/equipment/snow plow work I'm working on. I also have rolls of 7100 Ultra and Outershield 71 to try."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopI haven't heard info that bad or inaccurate in a long time.You sure your talking about gas shielded flux core (Fcaw-G) ????
Reply:And what causes those worm holes?"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Were you on reverse polarity? It looks like the volts are too low for the wire speed or vice/versa. Flux-core usually wets out to the edges really good.
Reply:Yes, as stated in OP, DCEP. And that is what I thought Dave, which is why I dropped it down, but not low enough, because those beads were at 1/2" stick out which is not enough. So yeah, I will have to slow it way down for 26V and 1" stick out. But first, I need to change that liner to see if that solves the feeding issue."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:The worm holes could be damp wire, not enough gas or the wrong stick out. The liner thing doesn't help either.
Reply:Stick-manYour metal should be clean - but does not need to be scaled.Dual-shield wire 'wets' through mill-scale nicely.More heat - Running thick and fast - .052 will take 30v.http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...ncolnElectric)Gun angle is different than hard-wire.  Typically with hard-wire 'I push' - with the gun layed-over pointing forward doing the 'dime-thing' . . .With Dual-Shield wires 'a push angle' increases spatter, andeffects the bead.   For D/S - the gun wants to be almost perpendicular to the bead axis.  This seems to provide a better flux/gas interaction.IMO this reduces spatter and produces a better bead profile.  Experiment by running test bead from perpendicular to > 45 degrees forward - note the increase in spatter . . .   D/S runs vertical smoother than Lo-Hi, but doesn't run Verticaldown at all.  For flat welds - you have it 'dialed' when you can't tell which direction you ran the bead.I just loaded a new 33# roll of .035 E71T in the D-60.  For the first time I am now 'winding the wire' out of the gun and bag-ging the roll on the feeder for moisture concerns during prolonged non-use. Opus
Reply:The cheap price on the wire is probably because whoever initially ordered it had problems. I would bet its damp, try drying it overnite at 200-300 degrees or so.
Reply:I say 1" stick out is far to long.1/2" to 5/8" is the sweet spot for me.IMO.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Hello again Stick-man, I realize that you likely already understand the whole "CTWD" thing yet others may be a little hazy on this so I'll cover it here. CTWD(contact tip to work distance) is the same as ESO(electrical stick out), both of these can be different from the visible stick-out that most people watch for when they are welding. Yet, often folks don't pay attention to the amount of hold-back that is encountered with different contact tip/nozzle combinations. Some manufacturers even offer different nozzles to account for a "flush" orientation of the contact tip to the end of the gas nozzle, a 1/16" recess of the contact tip to the nozzle orientation, an 1/8" contact tip hold-back, and I believe even a 3/16" orientation. So as someone considers the CTWD(contact tip to work distance) they have to take into account the amount of contact tip set-back into the nozzle and include that in the distance they hold off from the work.  I was surprised to see the 1" distance that is called out for in the Lincoln specifications for this wire, as I mentioned before. The thing about the importance of this is that amperage ranges will be all over the place when you vary this distance. The other day I was contemplating a question about Voltage, Amperage, CTWD and how they all correlate to one another. With the machine set to a specific voltage(testing showed very little variation in the delivered voltage regardless of CTWD change) and the wire speed matched-up to produce a sound weld bead I varied the CTWD and noted some interesting things. With the CTWD at around 1/4" the the amperage was at roughly 215 or so, with the CTWD at somewhere close to 1" the amperage had dropped to 150 or so. So as we contemplate what our wire speed needs to be relative to voltage and position ,we should take a hard look at the manufacturers parameters and try to start there and work to provide optimal results based on their initial recommendations. With regards to the "wormholes" that appear to be present in/on your beads I would join in what others have said regarding moisture, that is unless there is some sort of surface contaminant that could have caused this(paint, oils, etc.). Another thought, which I believe that someone has already mentioned as well, is having to do with the gas flowrate. With such a long stick-out, gas flow will be much more critical as it has to be high enough to expell the effects of outside atmosphere and yet not so high that it will create turbulence and cause contamination as a result of that. Good luck on your trail to figuring all of this out and please keep everyone posted. Best regards, AllanLast edited by aevald; 03-08-2015 at 06:31 PM.aevald
Reply:i usually only get worm holes when my reg is freezing up but i run 100%  co2 with my dual sheild. In the flat position id throw max everything at it crank the machine up and see what  happins. ? what machine are you running this on.  For flow rates and stick out ive seen and ran dual sheild with the reg cranked to max flow  it was the only way to get a weld down in high winds without perosity. stick out ive usually liked 5/8 same as ak works great for me. And remember manufacture setting are just a guide never has i setup and layed a bead that was done with the exact settings they called for.High Octane Welding
Reply:@ Stick-man - 1st ever runs with ESAB .045 710X-M or any FCAW-G wire from mid-2014.  2F position.  The wire sat inside the cold/hot shop only covered with a towel prior to burn-in.  Didn't remove one lick of mill scale or clean the base metal.  C25 shielding.  Ensure your shielding is set near 40CFH.  Slag removal was like butter.Experiment and master your gun's CTWD for each pull.  Ref thread:  http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...t=manokai+esab Attached ImagesLast edited by ManoKai; 03-08-2015 at 08:29 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manAnd what causes those worm holes?
Reply:Well???Last edited by Burnt Glove; 03-08-2015 at 11:14 PM.Operating Engineers Local 3Lincoln SA 200Victor TorchDewalt Grinder10 lbs SledgeWhat more do ya need!
Reply:Hello Stick-man, worm holes are different than porosity. Porosity comes from a lack of shielding gas, Worm Holes come from off-gassing associated with moisture(think in terms of hydrogen) or from surface contaminants(paint, oils, excessive anti-spatter, too thick of an application of "weldable" primer, etc.). In some cases the "worms" are surface imperfections only and do not extend beyond the surface of the weld deposit. Just a few pennies more for what it's worth. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:I missed the DCEP in the first post. Sometimes you can have an uneven amount of flux in the wire that will cause problems. I've also had it where the weld gets wagon tracks for no apparent reason. I worked in a shop where it wasn't too uncommon for several guys. One guy was so frustrated he took the MIG gun off and through it across the shop. 3 welds go perfect and the 4th screws up. How tight do you have the drive rolls? If the wire is getting deformed could cause feeding and possibly flux problems.
Reply:The only time I've ever gotten holes like that is when I forget that dual shield requires a longer stickout and I get too close. Try keeping your stickout no tighter than 5/8" to 3/4" and see if that fixes things.
Reply:Just a quick note - Thank you all for the suggestions. I probably won't be able to try this out again until at least wed. I will report back then."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"Another try. I was kinda in a hurry because momma is sick, so I had two of my yutes runnin in the soggy gravel yard!I changed the liner to a brand new 1/16", because I bought thirteen of them at a Sticky good deal!!! It definitely made a big difference. I was using a 1/16 contact tip, and a couple of times it stuck inside the tip. I gave it a little yank and it popped out. I could feel and see it was not at the very end of the tip, a little further back. I don't remember ever having that happen. Gas was set to 40cfh. I set the voltage until it read 25 on the LN-25. Then I set the wire feed speed to 300ipm for the first pass.For the second pass I turned it down to 275 ipm. It ran a little better, but not what I want."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Then, I turned it down to 225 ipm and it definitely ran much better. I know they still don't look perfect, but when I get more time, I will get it dialed in just right. I don't have a lot of nice steel I am willing to waste, so I wanna keep filling this angle. It wetted out on the bottom much better. "Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Only one worm hole. I remember feeling the wind kick up in that area. So, turning it up to 40cfh did help."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Sticky,I think I'd be upping the voltage to try and get it to spray smoother and wet out better.   And while this may seem like heresy,  sometimes you have to sacrifice holding the recommended CTWD (stick out) in order to maintain good shielding when you're fighting the wind to maintain good shielding.   I got bit twice today by letting my stick out get a little to long (but still with in tolerance) and ended up with porosity because of air turbulence.   The procedure I'm working to for metal core says 5/8 to 1" stick out but I can still get good results when I'm crowding down in the 1/2" stick out area.   Got to compensate with angle and travel speed because the puddle is more fluid (and prone to undercutting on the top toe) but it beats getting porosity because of loss of shielding.
Reply:@ Stick-man - recommend you weld a 2F or 3F joint using FCAW-G, vice running horizontal beads ad naseum.   Today, ran my first-ever 3F attempt on 1/4" HRS.  The flux-core was laid over a previous MIG short-circuit 3F (.035 ER70S-2).  Set the FCAW-G parameters for vertical up as if welding 3/16" thick steel.  "Z" weave semi-tight.  Need to tighten up my "Z".  Flux brushed off the resultant weld a la a snake skin.  Image #1 (MIG short circuit, 3G); Image #2 (FCAW-G in 3F w/ slag); Image #3 (FCAW-G in 3F w/o slag);  Image #4 (BLUE settings), plus "6" inductance and 40CFH of C25 shielding.  ESAB .045 710X-M wire. Attached Images"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Nice welds guys...Love this stuff except when the breeze kicks up...It very tough to grind outBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck