Positioner Repair/Maintenence..

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Was welding away using the positioner last week and it decided to stop turning..Motor was still running when the pedal was pressed but the chuck no spinny...Finally got around to taking it apart (Again) found the problem..The tiny set screws fell out of the brass gear and well..no screws no turn..So what the hell take a look at what's inside one of these..There are 4 screws that hold the top on and the motor is attached to the top..Big mess of wiring..Forward..Reverse..Fast..Slow..and the fine adjustment rectifier..Chuck and shaft..Motor end with the "Ring and Pinion" gears that were giving me greif..The brass gear under everything had the screws that hold it to the shaft come lose and one fell out but I found it inside then case so a clean out and rebuild was in order..Do you have any idea how much of a mindfuch this is to do?The gear on the top has to go..Then that shaft..Then you can get to the bottom.But upon re-assy the bottom gear is just put in the hole where it goes and then the top shaft goes in with the top gear THEN you have to jockey the bottom gear into position to get the bottom shaft in and then the screws have to line up with the detents in the shaft............. before you can tighten anything!And there is not much room to do that either...The ends of the case are tapped and there are thrust screws with a single ball bearing in the middle that you tighten to line everything up so it runs smooth with no end play..I got the gear assy back together after yelling at it for an hour and tomorrow I will put it all back together and hope it works..In the mean time I am going to re engineer a new shaft and mount for the chuck because I just don't like it the way it is..Stay tuned.....zap! Attached ImagesI am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Is this the 'fun' part of things?  I do believe that some threadlocker (aka LockTite) is in order on those pesky little set screws, eh?    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Well that looks like a big mess you get to deal with. When you get it back together, and you replace those set screws, I have 2 words for you:Red LoctiteDon't take any chances.Good luck.kidtigger24P.S. Would this be one of those "fun" jobs you always get? Last edited by kidtigger24; 03-07-2013 at 04:19 PM.  They think I’m crazy, but I know better. It is not I who am crazy. It is I who am MAD!
Reply:Aren't you an employee? Looks like a good reason to call it a day and go home early. Just kidding. At least the fix was minor aside from the time and frustration.Hope things go better tomorrow and the work hasn't stacked up too much.
Reply:Good to know, if mine breaks I know where to send it now. whew! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Heh, I think I have that same unit Zap!  Been sitting in my buddy's mandrel bending shop for ages, needs some electrical help.  I told him if I got it working I'd give him $100 for it and the stand up which it was mounted.  He said it was a deal.-AaronJet 17.5" Drill Press1942 South Bend 16x84 Lathe1980s Miller 320A / BP --- 2013 Power Mig 2562012 Jet 7x12 Horizontal BandsawVictor O/A Setup
Reply:Inbetween pushing snow around I managed to get the gear assy back on the motor and it works GREAT so now I am making a new and improved chuck mounting shaft assy..1/2" Stainless shaft..New chuck mounting plate from scrap on the floor..And the answer to the problem from the friction between the chuck mounting plate and the brass insert in the top of the positioner base..Thrust ball bearing..Plate/Bearing/Shaft..Assembled..I will weld the shaft to the plate Monday and re-assemble the unit...I think this will cut down on the stress on the motor/gears/top of the unit itself because of the bearing and it is MUCH lighter than what I made years ago..So until Monday  ...zap!Last edited by zapster; 03-08-2013 at 03:17 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Nice work! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by rabidchimpHeh, I think I have that same unit Zap!  Been sitting in my buddy's mandrel bending shop for ages, needs some electrical help.  I told him if I got it working I'd give him $100 for it and the stand up which it was mounted.  He said it was a deal.-Aaron
Reply:I'm thinking its electrical.  I've had it apart, and the mechanical end of things appears sound.  The issue is when the remote pedal is activated, the fuse immediately blows.  I've yet to mess with the electrical end of things past that.-AaronJet 17.5" Drill Press1942 South Bend 16x84 Lathe1980s Miller 320A / BP --- 2013 Power Mig 2562012 Jet 7x12 Horizontal BandsawVictor O/A Setup
Reply:just trace the wires out and draw your own diagram. hopefully as your are tracing the wires you will find where they are crossed up and shorted. lets hope it is not the motor.
Reply:Originally Posted by kidtigger24When you get it back together, and you replace those set screws, I have 2 words for you:Red LoctiteDon't take any chances.
Reply:Well I got it back together today but there was one unfortunate accident along the way..Because of the way I made it..the chuck (Heavy) had to be welded to the plate after I welded the shaft to the plate..Put the assy down thru the hole from the topPut the bottom pulley back on..tightened that up good..Put the belt from the motor to the pulley...Plugged it in for a trial run before final assy..Worked perfect!Now the hard part..You have to finagle the bottom pulley under the rheostat while at the same time get all the motor wires in between the motor and the pulley shaft..Because of the weight of the chuck it slipped from my grasp and broke the rheostat..And after that it continued to fall off the bench and undo all those wires wrapped in the tape (Pic 2 post 1)...After that happened I got really  at myself for letting things get outta hand..Took all the parts and threw them into the drawer where it goes..Started looking online for a new one.I found one but there was no price and I had to send a "Request" for the price via E/M....Still waiting..So as the AM progressed I had the lightbulb go off in my head..Hmmmmmmmm I wonder if the weld current rheostat in the old Hobart would work...So off I went to rape the welder.Got what I needed..Looks about the same..OHMS are about the same..Amps are the same..What the hell why not try it...Now I am not a electrician so a little guessing game went on about what wire goes to what wire..I guess today was my lucky day afterall....It works just like it should..Now I had to take it all apart again and install the "New" part and re-assemble without hurting anything..Mission accomplished..Then I let it run for 30 mins to see if anything would catch fire..So far so good..Sorry there are no more pics..Can't take any with a dead battery in the camera..Tomorrow I will put some weight to it and see how smmmooootttthhhhh it runs while welding..Just as long as there are no sparks shooting out of it...I get all the fun jobs.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Hope it works out for you tomorrow Zap!
Reply:zapsterThe motor appears to be a Bodine Electric.  Mine is on an old Heathpantograph.The motor revved up and down, but no go.  My good luck was the fiber gear was stripped  -  easy fix  -  new gear. The local Bodine dealer said he had to get with his people because hehad no ready reference.  The dealer 'weaved and bobbed' every time Icalled; I looked elsewhere, because I had a strict deadline to meet.By the time the dealer called back with source and price, I had already received  replacements from www.wmberg.com for $28.00 ea.; the dealer wanted $126.00 ea. There are two in my gear-head, one shot, and the other on its way, so I replaced both.   Brass has replaced Fiber.  Your gear looks in good shape. Zap is not exaggerating the amount of exercise it takes to get 'in & out' ofthe drive-train on this type of motor.  I lost track after my fourth cycle.The up-side for old-schoolers: Bodine are high quality, well crafted motors, and can be repeatedly R-n-Rd with conventional tools without impairment to the components.    www.bodine-electric.com is still a top-tier manufacture, and when 'lookingto buying' old equipment, Bodine is quality.       Berg  -  www.wmberg.com is a good view for those into micro management.Opus
Reply:Thanks for the link Opis..The brass gear in the motor assy...I made the blank and we sent it to Tracy Gear in Providence R.I. and they cut the new teeth..The old one was really worn in one spot and it would skip a revolution then grab and take off.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterSo off I went to rape the welder.Got what I needed...I guess today was my lucky day afterall....It works just like it should..
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeGood to know, if mine breaks I know where to send it now. whew!
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWAh the fun we can have when we quote things out of context...
Reply:I'm going to have to get up earlier to beat DSW ...3 third time he got the jump on me Always remember when dealing with Zap...Some parts are missingNice fix ZapBut i'm curious why weld the chuck to the backing plate ?I would think you would make a threaded backing plate and thread the end of the shaft with a jam nut or shoulder the backing plate and put in a set screw..so it could not un screw if run in reverse of the threadsBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11I'm going to have to get up earlier to beat DSW ...3 third time he got the jump on me Always remember when dealing with Zap...Some parts are missingNice fix ZapBut i'm curious why weld the chuck to the backing plate ?I would think you would make a threaded backing plate and thread the end of the shaft with a jam nut or shoulder the backing plate and put in a set screw..so it could not un screw if run in reverse of the threads
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWAh the fun we can have when we quote things out of context...
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThe old one was really worn in one spot and it would skip a revolution then grab and take off.....zap!
Reply:Nice repairs zap!I have a PDF of the manual for your positioner if you don't already have it.I can email it to you...it's too big to attach on the forum. http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabNice repairs zap!I have a PDF of the manual for your positioner if you don't already have it.I can email it to you...it's too big to attach on the forum.Originally Posted by zapsterOK I'll bite..P/M sent.....zap!
Reply:Thank You!There will be a little something extra in your pay this week......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThank You!There will be a little something extra in your pay this week......zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabYou know...anything multiplied by zero is still zero...
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeI take that back.
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabMike, I also sent you an email with a copy of the manual for the positioner I sold you.
Reply:okay i'll except that..and i did see where that chuck has been drilled for different mountings...lots of holesWhen i did a new chuck for my lathe i counter sunk the allen cap bolts into my backing plate so the heads didn't stick out and your right doing it was a PITAI screwed the backing plate onto the lathe faced it off and turned it to the same OD as the new chuckI used threaded center punches screwed into the back of the chuck to mark were the holes had to be drilled into the backing plate and they were a few thousandths off had to over size holes to adjust it to zero run out when mounted on the latheLike i said a PITA  Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Pablo, may I please have a copy of the manual?  It'll help me sort mine out [email protected]  Thanks Boss!-AaronJet 17.5" Drill Press1942 South Bend 16x84 Lathe1980s Miller 320A / BP --- 2013 Power Mig 2562012 Jet 7x12 Horizontal BandsawVictor O/A Setup
Reply:Originally Posted by rabidchimpPablo, may I please have a copy of the manual?  It'll help me sort mine out [email protected]  Thanks Boss!-Aaron
Reply:Same as Zap's in this thread.  Thanks!  /threadjackAaronJet 17.5" Drill Press1942 South Bend 16x84 Lathe1980s Miller 320A / BP --- 2013 Power Mig 2562012 Jet 7x12 Horizontal BandsawVictor O/A Setup
Reply:Email sent!/end threadjackhttp://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories