DC TIG Weld Aluminum ?

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So I watched a video yesterday from Weld.com (Mr TIG)The video explains the "Lost Art" of DC TIG Welding....I bought a new Welder a few months ago, because mine didn't have spool gun capabilities. Still all I could afford was a Lincoln 140I bought a decent Spool Gun from a local tool guy.Then tried welding some very thin walled aluminum fence. The gun blew through a lot. But I got through it. Then I watched a video of a guy TIG welding aluminum with DC and Aluminum SMAW rods. Looked a little tricky at bestThen I see Mr TIG talking about a process of using a really big tungsten and DC Pos for thin wall work. All these fences and thin wall stuff around here are painted and really don't look like pretty welds from the factory. He says you can go to 1/8 with this process, scratch start and all. So what do you have to say about this guys?Yes I'd like to buy a HF AC machine but it's not in the very near future. Looking at Everlast AC/DC duel voltage stick/tig for $900 when I can afford it. But down here in south Florida, dummies pay $800 for thin wall aluminum chase lounges and there's lots of thin wall aluminum fences and rails. As long as there's lawn guys with riding mowers there's money in them thin rail jobs. I'm gonna try some dc pos tig welding today. Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:He's smokin crack if he thinks welding 1/8" thick aluminum on DC+ is going to work.I've tried it with 1/16" aluminum and it works sorta ok - but is not how a person would want to learn tig.One of the big problems is the tungsten - on DC+ it can't hold much amperage.(the torch gets really hot very fast too)Check out this chart to see what I mean:Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Most stuff I encounter is less that 1/16Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:Then the only thing left for you to do is try it and see how you like it.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Ya I guess, I don't have his skill by any stretch, or yours for that matter. I'd like to buy a good modern welder but maybe after I stick some pickets back on I'll have the $$$Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:I'd suggest you go see your  doctor for heart meds and tranquilizers because you will find this frustrating at best.One of the problems guys have with thin alum in general is that alum is such a great heat sink. It is tough to get just a small area to puddle and not have the heat spread out and have a big hole form the instant  the material melts.Have at it if you want, but I wouldn't waste any money on equipment since I'm betting you won't be happy with the results..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I DC -  aluminum all the time...It requires straight helium (preferably Lab grade)  and you weld the same as steel.Can't say it is what i would use on thin material though......It runs very hot and gets good pen. I use it on thick aluminum where a narrow bead is required.. http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1...tn=-1799042084http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1.../?tn=614684332Last edited by B_C; 03-04-2015 at 12:52 PM.  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:I have welded AL on DC on accident before. It didnt turn out that bad either
Reply:Thin aluminum A/C low Amps  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CI DC -  aluminum all the time...It requires straight helium (preferably Lab grade)  and you weld the same as steel.Can't say it is what i would use on thin material though......It runs very hot and gets good pen. I use it on thick aluminum where a narrow bead is required.. http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1...tn=-1799042084http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1.../?tn=614684332
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CThin aluminum A/C low Amps
Reply:We only used DC- for aluminum in the semi conductor industry....Hardly ever used AC   Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109I worked at Rocketdyne many years ago. Welders there were using tramsformer machines on the original Heliarc process. They were using DC and straight helium on aluminum rocket engine ductings. The welds were fantastically beautiful. All were X-rayed and inspected. They had to be perfect. I'd like to try it some time but my LWS can't even get Helium on a regular basis and it's not cheap!
Reply:I weld up 50 of these a week  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:and 50 of these  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:and 100 of these in two weeks, so I feel your pain for Helium costs....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:100 of these.....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Nice work in the pictures. I can't even imagine what helium would cost if I could get it. Argon has gotten bad enough.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:I pay 135.00 for a 36 of lab grade....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CI pay 135.00 for a 36 of lab grade....
Reply:How much cfh do you use on helium mix B. C. ? Do you preheat any of those parts?
Reply:BCNice pics and welds. Just to be clear......... All those pretty welds you just posted were welded with you dynasty 350 in AC....... Right?
Reply:That's some pretty cool stuff guys, just got a call for another broken chase lounge today. I could make an entire career out of thin wall aluminum in south Florida. I have cheated my way around buying and learning to use a Ac tig welder for over a year now. If tried alluma weld, a spool gun, alum SMAW rods( they suck) and I just thought I'd like to try the DC Pos method I saw in the video. I didn't get a chance to try the dc tig yesterday. I was tipped off by a friend that a local thrift store had a cheap mig welder and touches with extra tanks really cheap. So I ran over a bought them. Swapped out tanks and gas lines, added a cutting tip I picked up in a garage sale a few weeks ago and BAM I hit a nice set of torches for $35 bucks. B tank, 40 O2, MC, and a -10Cf  all for $35Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by Bluehunter40That's some pretty cool stuff guys, just got a call for another broken chase lounge today. I could make an entire career out of thin wall aluminum in south Florida. I have cheated my way around buying and learning to use a Ac tig welder for over a year now. If tried alluma weld, a spool gun, alum SMAW rods( they suck) and I just thought I'd like to try the DC Pos method I saw in the video. I didn't get a chance to try the dc tig yesterday. I was tipped off by a friend that a local thrift store had a cheap mig welder and touches with extra tanks really cheap. So I ran over a bought them. Swapped out tanks and gas lines, added a cutting tip I picked up in a garage sale a few weeks ago and BAM I hit a nice set of torches for $35 bucks. B tank, 40 O2, MC, and a -10Cf  all for $35Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonStop pissing in the wind and purchase a decent AC/DC tig machine. But I have had a good laugh out of your topic.AL dc can be done it what was heliarc was back in the day just use 90/10 helium or 100% helium but only good for thicker AL cause it burns hot really hot and it is hard to see the puddleLincoln Power Arc 4000 Thermal Arc Fabricator 252 iThermal arc 186Thermal Arc 26 tigTweeko 200 amp spool gunHobart AirForce 400WP-17V-12R
Reply:Think lab-grade He is expensive?  Standby.Was at my LWS yesterday scoring some AZ92A (Mg) filler for a buddy and entered into a shielding gas conversation with the store manager.  A local researcher uses Linde, vis a vis the LWS, to source 80/155 CF high-purity mixes of Kr, F, and Xe.  Probably KrF laser research or some VDF (vapour deposition film) work.  Who knows?  But this is known:  costs the dude in the several thousands ($$k) for each fill.  Cost is relative."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Well there's no question it can be done, just watch the video. The stuff I'm doing does not need a "stack of dimes". I'd love to get into some higher end work at some point, after I learn more and make more money to by equipment. I'm just a handyman, who loves welding. I work full time and just do these little jobs to make up a little bill money. I tried taking some classes and work schedule would not permit. As one of the first replies said, nothing left to do but try it. My stuff is all thin wall. It's all painted or power coated after. I looked at the factory welds on the chase today. They where goobered on and ground down, more or less what I'm doing. I strive to do the best job I can, to be honest most welding jobs I get have already been passed up by "real" welders. Most guys around here charge $150 to show up and are driving away while the metal is still hot with $200-400 and they still pass on little jobs like this. I'm honetsly very happy doing these little "fix it" jobs. I'm very greatful for all your comments when I post questions. In this case I was looking for feedback as to weather or not it was practical for me to try this method. I've been too busy to sit down and rig up my scratch start dc welding setup. But I will over the weekend, I'll even post some pictures since I lie the feed back. Thanks again, and as soon as I can I'll get a Ac/dc tig. Looks like I might try the everlast 110/220 stick/tig welder for $900. But that will be another post. TimLincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:Well this is my first attempt at this process. I didn't have much time at all but I finally got a chance to try.Keep in mind this is a HF 80 amp DC stick welder with a gas valve tig torchThe setup is 1/8 2% thoriated, 100% argon, 1/16 4043 (? I think) filler, DCEPI have no idea what to set the amps to, on a1/16 1X1 section of aluminumI know it crap but my first time ever with this TIG weldingSo this is not a brag. Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:If its 1/8 inch AL your welding use full amps. Maybe preheat. Have you tig welded steel?
Reply:These welds are on 1/16, I was around 30 amps. Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:No I tried once with steel when I got the torch, without filler. Keep in mind that for the stuff I'm doing, I really need little more that tack weld. Mostly AL fence and gates. It's all painted after. Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:What I found was that once wet, I had to move pretty fast. But I don't have the timing down. Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:Not sure why your not practing welding steel first? And use filler. U need more the 30 amps I would think. And carbide burr the AL. On DC you have no cleaning or anything to break the oxide layer. Maybe I'll try to do what your doing and see what I come up with.
Reply:i carbide burred the area welded in DC. It seemed more like brazing to me. It's 1/8 thick AL. I tried brushing and didnt help. Can you guess wich AC aluminum bead was brushed? Final result it did not work!
Reply:I don't think it could break the oxide layer it didnt look like. There was no puddle at all lol. It was just wanting to melt the AL back if I didn't add filler and motor out.
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313Not sure why your not practing welding steel first? And use filler. U need more the 30 amps I would think. And carbide burr the AL. On DC you have no cleaning or anything to break the oxide layer. Maybe I'll try to do what your doing and see what I come up with.
Reply:That's it Dave. At least why I'm trying. As per Mr TIG, an oversized Tungsten is used. The arc does jump around. He says more control comes after the tip balls up. I found best results with the torch strait up and down, when tilted the arc seems to jump way out in front. Does anyone know if a standard amp chart would apply to this method? I mean is heat heat, or vary by A/C and D/C? Or does the gas affect things as well. Based on the mess I made trying yesterday. If I can get to a point where I can stick a few pickets back on a fence or tack a gate back together this is truly all I'll probably  ever need, but is tucked a little away towards a good Ac machine Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by Bluehunter40That's it Dave. At least why I'm trying. As per Mr TIG, an oversized Tungsten is used. The arc does jump around. He says more control comes after the tip balls up. I found best results with the torch strait up and down, when tilted the arc seems to jump way out in front. Does anyone know if a standard amp chart would apply to this method? I mean is heat heat, or vary by A/C and D/C? Or does the gas affect things as well. Based on the mess I made trying yesterday. If I can get to a point where I can stick a few pickets back on a fence or tack a gate back together this is truly all I'll probably  ever need, but is tucked a little away towards a good Ac machine Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:ok sorry about having the wrong setup before. Deffently puddle this time very quite actually. I had a heck of a time getting it started the arc wander was crazy!1/16 AL 1/8 tungsten. I balled the tungsten a little and that seemed to help. Machine was set to 90 amps but didnt come close to using it. I just had to lay in to the foot pedal to get the arc to focus and I hoped for the best. I could try it again to see if I can do better. It's hard lol!
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313How much cfh do you use on helium mix B. C. ? Do you preheat any of those parts?
Reply:Ok thanks. Do you mean cfh tho?is the arc wander much worse with the 50/50 compared to the 75/25?
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313ok sorry about having the wrong setup before. Deffently puddle this time very quite actually. I had a heck of a time getting it started the arc wander was crazy!1/16 AL 1/8 tungsten. I balled the tungsten a little and that seemed to help. Machine was set to 90 amps but didnt come close to using it. I just had to lay in to the foot pedal to get the arc to focus and I hoped for the best. I could try it again to see if I can do better. It's hard lol!
Reply:I tried a .040 t joint before that lap and it just was a pain in the butt and I gave up. Arc just wouldn't focus! Ill post more pics soon. Deffently not recommend for a novice!!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313I tried a .040 t joint before that lap and it just was a pain in the butt and I gave up. Arc just wouldn't focus! Ill post more pics soon. Deffently not recommend for a novice!!!!
Reply:If I had a pedal to punch I would, this is a cheap, but functional, Harbor Freight 80 amp DC stick welder with a Gas valve tig torch, scratch start. If I had 1K to spend I would not be clowning around with this. But I just do little repair jobs on the side. As I said most of the pickets I get called to repair are sometimes half the thickness of the 1/16 tube pictured. So I just really need to put 1/4" tack on two sides. Many of these are very thin and are screwed together. However once a dummy on a lawn mower plows into them. Welding is the best way to go. Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:Well I have lots of time to practice. Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:my torch hand got a little stuck on the bench then jerked over a couple times that's why it looks a cold in a couple spots. you are gona frustrate your self to death trying to figure this out.its very hard to get the puddle started and join eachother! And a foot pedal with help. I had to let off and start over several times. I don't think I'll ever try it again!Last edited by motolife313; 03-10-2015 at 01:33 PM.
Reply:Ya maybe, I'll try a few more times. If I can't get I'd down, I'll just wait till I can get an AC machine. Lincoln SP100 WeldpacLincoln SP 140 HD -Magnum Spool GunSent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:Anyone else wanna try lol