My shop teacher ruined me in regards to oxy/acetelyne!

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So in high school we had a pretty lengthy session on how dangerous oxy-acetelyne torches can be.  I own an AO setup (torches etc)  but have never got the gas to set it up.  I guess I am still scared of killing myself with it.  :roll eyes:I have a Mig, Tig and Stick.  I have a plasma torch, milwaukee metal saw, grinders, bandsaw, etc.  I don't ever braze etc either.  The only thing I can think of that the OA setup would be useful for me would be to heat metal.Tell me if there is a usage other than heating metal that I can't accomplish with one of my other tools.  So... If I only really need the AO setup for heating metal is there another way to do it that is safer than an AO torch?
Reply:Absolutely - put a propane tip on your torch to heat and cut with - no acetylene needed That's what I do. Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:So does the torch just hook to a regular propane tank?  How hot does it get compared to an AO setup?  Does the propane tip just screw on?  Where do I get one?  Are we there yet?
Reply:It's a little cooler than oxy/acetylene, but not enough to care.Cuts very nice, just the pre-heat is a little longer - again not enough to care.On my torch is was just a matter of moving the regulator to the 20lb LP tank and a new tip on the torch.Overall cheaper to run as well.Edit: don't remember if I used an adaptor to hook to my regulator to tank, or if it hooked right up.Changed 20 years ago and never looked back Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:An OA torch is better at removing welds without scarring the base metal. For cutting a plasma is cleaner but not as fun. Don't let OA scare you, if you follow the rules everything will be ok.Thermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:Watch out for the oxygen too.  We had a laboratory get ruined due to some oil contamination on a fitting.  It only burned for a few seconds before the worker got things valved out but it was quite a mess.I believe almost all people change to propane due to cost over hazard but I could be wrong.  The ratio of oxygen to acetylene is nice as it's about somewhere between 2:1 and 1:1.  If you use propane it's more like 4:1 so you'll be swapping bottles more if you don't have a LARGE oxygen tank.Regards, SteveTweco 211i complete with pedal and TIG kit"Victor Style" Oxy/Acetylene outfitUNIWELD Air/Acetylene Kit
Reply:Did your instructor explain how the inside of the acetylene bottle was filled with a substance to keep from getting too much gas out at one time to be dangerous. Even driving is dangerous if not done safely.There are many uses in my shop for O/A that a plasma will not work for. Try washing off a bunch of irregular crap from an old trailer or piece of heavy equipment with a plasma. Any thing but smooth metal is a pain in the butt to cut with plasma. Bending is a large part of any welding shop and the O/A is what you need. Portability is not in the realm of the plasma for any thing that I work on. If your not in business then you can probably get by with out it. If you have a welding/fabrication business then I can't imagine getting by with out one.
Reply:This is why I refuse to own an OA setup. Too dangerous for my taste. Last thing I need is one of the kids going in the garage and possibly knocking something over or anything like that.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:If you take the time to educate yourself properly on Oxy fuel systems, you'll find the applications are almost endless. There is a right and wrong way to handle Oxy fuel. Learn the differences. The Union Carbide Oxy Acetylene handbook is an excellent guide to getting started right.Basic safety, knowing how to handle cylinders, how to care for and set up the equipment, how to light and adjust the torch and regulators, and how to shut them off are all covered in this publication. I have two or three, I would be willing to part with one for a reasonable price. You can buy them on eBay too.Oxy Fuel is the most flexible system on the planet. It can cut, scarf, braze, solder, weld, bend, heat and even straighten things. Plasma is a great tool, and has its place, but there aren't many things you cannot do with Oxy fuel. You can even weld aluminum. I would suggest taking some time to familiarize yourself with the publication I mentioned above. Learn to use and care for an Oxy fuel setup and you will never regret it. I prefer it over any other method available for cutting ferrous metals. Carbon arc being a close second. A great deal of Oxy fuel setups can be purchased used for very reasonable prices. I've purchased full sized owned cylinders and high quality torch sets with them for under $300 at auction.It's a great tool to own. Between that  a stick machine and a grinder, you can fabricate almost anything out of steel.IMHO of courseExpert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:No one has mentioned it yet, but if you go propane, you'll need to use fuel hoses rated for propane instead of acetylene.
Reply:Agreed.Keep the bottles secured when regulators are hooked up, caps on when moving and when non-secured. Keep yer regulators grease free and your hoses hole free. Check threaded connections from time to time as well. A flash arrestors at the torch and regulator may give you peace of mind.I could prolly use to download and review the UC handbook once I eventually get O/A action on.. "hopefully soon, I REALLY need it!" Mistakes can be just as easily made out of complacency as ignorance.-Niche
Reply:Hey, Niche. If you find a PDF for the OA handbook, I'll make it a stickyI know I have two somewhere. Great reference guide. Covers everything and even has projects you can makeExpert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:Originally Posted by danmcphSo in high school we had a pretty lengthy session on how dangerous oxy-acetelyne torches can be.  I own an AO setup (torches etc)  but have never got the gas to set it up.  I guess I am still scared of killing myself with it.  :roll eyes:
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Hey, Niche. If you find a PDF for the OA handbook, I'll make it a stickyI know I have two somewhere. Great reference guide. Covers everything and even has projects you can make
Reply:If you're just cutting, it's the oxygen that is doing the work.  Anyone doubtful can turn off whatever other gas they're using and see.  Though it's not recommended as it invites blowback.  In fact anytime you use more pressure with one gas over another, there's a possibility.  Enough so that you really shouldn't run any oxyfuel set up without both flash arrestors and check valves.  Still it pays to be vigilant and know what to do in such situations.  While the high pressure oxygen cylinder needs to be opened all the way to seat at the top, an acetylene cylinder can be opened just a quarter turn and be fine as well as easier to close in an emergency.  In all welding, especially with OAW, you need to have clear unobstructed pathways to move quickly in case of emergency or someone who can assist and offer an extra set of eyes, hands and legs in case of a problem.  Situational awareness with the torch hose and prior inspection is key too, don't use any hoses which display wear or damage from misuse.  You must be aware of both your hose along the line of the torch as well as the hot material you are creating or sharp and heavy pieces that will drop off from cutting.  Still it seems most accidents are caused by the specific item being cut rather than the OAW rig itself, in fact I think the last few incidents I've heard of with folks blowing themselves up involved plasma cutting.  Read up on safety with OAW and other high pressure oxygen cutting applications and you will find it is a very safe process.  It's just that some people shouldn't be allowed to use scissors let alone welding unsupervised.  I read one tale where it became common practice for students to blow oxygen down their shirts to cool off.  That practice ended when one managed to oxidize their synthetic shirt in dramatic fashion with tragic results.  Which brings up the biggest cause of compressed oxygen accidents, impurities in the high pressure side of the regulator.  Cracking the valve is always good practice to ensure there's nothing on the seat of the tank valve but inspecting the gauge side is required too.  If there's any doubt to the origin of the regulators or their storage, have them serviced.  You can easily search google images and see plenty of regulators turned into fragmentation grenades from a light film of oil, or a piece of combustible material that found its way into the works.  Here in the Southwest it's common to have native bees as well as some wasps build small individual nests out of dried leaves and paper.  Once I fired up my MAPP gas torch and discovered it fully clogged with a spiral of paper left by an insect making its home in the combustion chamber.  I was happy it hadn't happened with an unattended oxygen regulator and have since been vigilant in that respect as well.Welding requires taking more responsibility than most tasks people are used to these days and it is one of the reasons it can be so enjoyable.  While using any of the common arc processes may not seem as hazardous, it's still a big responsibility and OAW doesn't need to be fraught with as much danger as people make it out to be.  I learned to weld OAW from a guy who learned to weld OAW from a woman who became a shop instructor after WW2.  It's not that difficult a skill to learn, you just need to pay attention.  Thankfully there's lots of information out there, it's too bad weldingweb doesn't have a separate forum for those using gas to weld, cut and braze with.  It seems everyone wants to buy the fanciest TIG welder even though they only own a hacksaw and ball pein hammer to supplement their crummy c-clamps.  Good luck!
Reply:You want to know what an oxy-fuel torch is good for? Back when I worked in the shipyards and a torch was my main axe, in the winter I used to warm up a beam and sit on it. Truth.Get metal hot and bend it.Straighten warped metal.Cut steel.Weld steel. Burn off old paint.Loosen frozen nuts.Super-rich flame will soot things a velvety black and then epoxy won't stick to it.Super-rich flame, starved for oxygen, played on a rusty surface will convert the rust to black oxide.Fill bags with it on July 4th and make the biggest bang you can imagine.Should I go on?metalmagpie
Reply:I am only using it to heat metal with.  Is propane safer than acetylene for this?
Reply:Sounds like a crappy instructor! I also can't believe some of the responses on here. O/A torches have been around 100 years or so and millions are in use everyday. Esab puts out the former Union Carbide/Linde, oxy/acetylene handbook and it's online too. The porous material in acetylene cylinders DOES NOT limit the amount of gas below dangerous levels. That's one of the worst false information posts I've ever read.  It's foolish to buy an expensive plasma torch if you work with steel over an 1/8" thick. If you want to save a little, go propane. With a hand torch you can do a nicer cut with an O/A torch than a plasma. If you can do that nice of a cut with a plasma, you'll be able to do just as nice with an oxy/fuel torch. An O/A set is a very versatile tool to have. Why all the fear mongering and totally false information regarding O/A torches??? http://www.esabna.com/euweb/oxy_handbook/589oxy2_2.htmLast edited by Welder Dave; 03-23-2015 at 01:40 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by danmcphSo in high school we had a pretty lengthy session on how dangerous oxy-acetelyne torches can be.
Reply:Okay, I just read all I could on oxy-acetelyne safety.  I am not convinced I am not going that route.  I had some pretty bad 3rd degree burns in my life that took years to recover from and frankly would prefer to not go down the oxy-acetelyne road.  What is an alternate system to use for JUST heating that is a replacement for OA?  I know nothing is a true replacement, it may not heat as fast and you can't weld with it etc.  I just want a system that is safer (I know I know, everything is dangerous if your stupid, I just want to hedge my bets) that will still heat metal for bending, freeing rusted parts etc.
Reply:oxy propane is good for heating... you can still get 3rd degree burns though... (if that's something you commonly manage to do lol)oxyacetylene produces a much hotter flame and it much nicer for cutting.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyveroxy propane is good for heating... you can still get 3rd degree burns though... (if that's something you commonly manage to do lol)oxyacetylene produces a much hotter flame and it much nicer for cutting.
Reply:Google says I need T rated hoses and propane tips.  Do I use the same regulators?  What settings do I use on the regulators for the oxy and the propane for heating metal?
Reply:Maybe this video will answer some basic questions.
Reply:The Oxy Acetylene handbook is available used at places like Alibris and Abe's Books.  Cheap, like $6.- $8 delivered.Couple of videos by Smith:At the local community college, the instructor had a piece of safety gear ready.  If anyone had their rig popping or whistling and didn't shut it down immediately, he had a hammer.  Which he threatened to apply to the operator's head.Last edited by Oldendum; 03-23-2015 at 08:25 AM."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welderOriginally Posted by Welder Dave It's foolish to buy an expensive plasma torch if you work with steel over an 1/8" thick. If you want to save a little, go propane. With a hand torch you can do a nicer cut with an O/A torch than a plasma. If you can do that nice of a cut with a plasma, you'll be able to do just as nice with an oxy/fuel torch. An O/A set is a very versatile tool to have. Why all the fear mongering and totally false information regarding O/A torches???
Reply:Change the tip, change the hoses, use same regulators, same pressure values as OA seems to work fine for me.
Reply:With basic safety, OA isn't really any more dangerous than most tools in your shop. Faaaar more people get hurt with angle grinders and other tools. I guess I don't see why you are more afraid of acetylene than any other combustible gas. Youtube BLEVE and see what fun propane can be. Acetylene tanks are MUCH stronger than any propane cylinder you'll have at your shop.Keep tanks chained to something so they can't fall over (workbench or in a cart), don't run acetylene over 15psi (I run mine at 5psi for everything), keep unused cylinders capped, and you're pretty much golden.Acetylene just works better than propane, albeit more expensive.
Reply:Check the CGA connector on your fuel regulator.  It may be a 200, 410, 510, or 520.  Then check your propane bottle, I believe it will be a 510?SteveTweco 211i complete with pedal and TIG kit"Victor Style" Oxy/Acetylene outfitUNIWELD Air/Acetylene Kit
Reply:Just get a mapp torch for heating stuff up and be done with it, unless you are doing it for a living.  Takes longer but a lot less to think about.
Reply:Why pay for reference materials:http://cnqzu.com/library/Anarchy%20F...kshop/Welding/Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by pistolnoonWhy pay for reference materials:http://cnqzu.com/library/Anarchy%20F...kshop/Welding/Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk
Reply:ive read thru a lil bit of this and had about all I could bare.  ive made aliving for twenty years with an oxy acetlylene torch in my hand from demolition to fabrication nothing cuts as well or as fast, and how any of you can figure acey is more dangerious then propane or natural gas I will never figure out...fire will burn you that's the bottom line.  acetylene is not the devil you make it out too be! and you people that think your saving money with propane and natural gas if you fig out your oxygen consumption and added time between pre heats, cut time and changing bottles every 10 min and still think your ahead your full of **** or considering your time Is worth nothing.. im sure i'lll get flamed for this post but anyone who's anykind of tradesperson knows your blowing the dangerous acetlyne thing right too hell!
Reply:Originally Posted by rambinive read thru a lil bit of this and had about all I could bare.  ive made aliving for twenty years with an oxy acetlylene torch in my hand from demolition to fabrication nothing cuts as well or as fast, and how any of you can figure acey is more dangerious then propane or natural gas I will never figure out...fire will burn you that's the bottom line.  acetylene is not the devil you make it out too be! and you people that think your saving money with propane and natural gas if you fig out your oxygen consumption and added time between pre heats, cut time and changing bottles every 10 min and still think your ahead your full of **** or considering your time Is worth nothing.. im sure i'lll get flamed for this post but anyone who's anykind of tradesperson knows your blowing the dangerous acetlyne thing right too hell!
Reply:I suspect that acetylene gets the bad reputation because of the very wide range concentrations where air - acetylene will burn or explode.Propane will ignite at 2.1 to ~10% mixture with air.Acetylene will ignite at 2.5 to ~100% mixture with air.Add to that the fact that acetylene takes far less energy to ignite it ( 0.017 mj vs 0.25 for propane ) and you have a situation where a leak will easily reach an explosive mixture that will easily ignite.Even so, O/A is a wonderfully capable tool, and is used safely the vast majority of the time.----------------------------Measure twice.  Weld once.  Grind to size.MIG:  Lincoln SP100 TIG/STICK:  AHP Alphatig 200X
Reply:Originally Posted by rambinive read thru a lil bit of this and had about all I could bare.  ive made aliving for twenty years with an oxy acetlylene torch in my hand from demolition to fabrication nothing cuts as well or as fast, and how any of you can figure acey is more dangerious then propane or natural gas I will never figure out...fire will burn you that's the bottom line.  acetylene is not the devil you make it out too be! and you people that think your saving money with propane and natural gas if you fig out your oxygen consumption and added time between pre heats, cut time and changing bottles every 10 min and still think your ahead your full of **** or considering your time Is worth nothing.. im sure i'lll get flamed for this post but anyone who's anykind of tradesperson knows your blowing the dangerous acetlyne thing right too hell!
Reply:7A749, I think one of your sigs fits the OP's shop teacher very well: " I'm not a welder, but I know one".                                                   MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:I work in the oilfield service industry.  We routinely work with pressures up to 10,000 PSI.  Many of our employees are pretty nervous about working with thousands of pounds of pressure, but have a nonchalant attitude about lower pressures.  I've pointed out a number of times that 100 PSI will kill you just as fast--and just as dead--as 10,000 PSI.  While Propane may seem safer than acetylene, don't be complacent about it.  You can still hurt or kill yourself with it.  As long as you're dealing with a hazardous materials, might as well deal with what is most effective for the job at hand.America Needs AMERICA'S Oil!!!"Global warming is the greatest scam in history ...There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril."--John Coleman, Founder of The Weather Channel
Reply:Originally Posted by DrooopySteel over 1/8" no plasma?  That is ridiculous.  Yes, an O/A torch in the right hands can make an excellent cut.  It has many uses that plasma cannot compete with.  However, if I need to cut 3/16" plate in a equipment penthouse 100 yards from my truck, I am going for a Powermax 30 AIR over O/A any day of the week.  Not to mention how insane some of the safety guys on construction sites are getting these days about O/A.  Just not the fixall tool you make it out to be.  To the OP, any fuel used to heat metal effectively is going to have to be stored and will produce a big open flame.  That has safety hazards associated with it.  The safety manuals were written to address the safety hazards.  Follow the proper procedures and stay safe or don't do the work. If you find a way to efficiently localize large amounts heat onto metal without any safety concerns, please let us know.
Reply:Originally Posted by steve45I work in the oilfield service industry.  We routinely work with pressures up to 10,000 PSI.  Many of our employees are pretty nervous about working with thousands of pounds of pressure, but have a nonchalant attitude about lower pressures.  I've pointed out a number of times that 100 PSI will kill you just as fast--and just as dead--as 10,000 PSI.
Reply:At a time you could buy a kitchen stove that ran on Carbide Gas(acetylene). Can't be all bad if it was safe enough for household use!
Reply:Long ago, when I was but a child, lots of welding/ blacksmith shops had acetylene generators like druginin just mentioned.                                           MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I started welding with O/A and was quite nervous about it for a while. The large amount of "acetylene will blow up in your face" threads around here and other places really didn't help. After burning through about 100cf of acetylene though, that fear is pretty much gone. These days I feel a lot safer with an O/A torch in my hand than I do with a cutoff wheel in a 4 1/2" grinder.
Reply:Any tool not handled w/ knowledge and respect is dangerous.                                          MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Originally Posted by pistolnoonWhy pay for reference materials:http://cnqzu.com/library/Anarchy%20F...kshop/Welding/Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk
Reply:First off there is nothing to be afraid of with oxy /fuel any thing regardless of what the fuel is. Respectful yes, afraid of no. Get informed on the safe practices of oxy acetylene and the only thing that changes for the other fuels is that you need type T hose, which will also work for acetylene, you can run the fuel pressure over 15 lbs. if needed, and you don't have to worry about the with drawl rate of the fuel or keeping the fuel bottle up right. The manufacturer of your torch will have a chart to tell you what size and model tip you need to cut with your gas of choice and that chart will also give suggested range of pressure settings for that tip. Lots of gas choices besides acetylene and propane but not all gases are readily available in all locations. If you use the search function on this sight there is several hours of reading on the subject. I can't imagine spending the money for a torch set up and limiting my self to just heating metal but it's your dime. Best of luck to you. And by the way, I own 5 sets for oxy/acetylene/ propane and in over 40 years of using them I'm still standing.
Reply:The Union Carbide Oxy Acetylene handbook is an excellent guide to getting started right....I would be willing to part with one for a reasonable price.
Reply:I like to say that the OA torch is no more or less dangerous than a table saw or a rifle. Both will ruin your day if you are not careful, yet many of us use a table saw or a rifle without a second thought because the safety protocols have been drilled into us and we are familiar with these items. OA is the same way. A few basic safety rules to follow and you will be fine. And truth be told, it is harder to blow up a torch set than you think. When I was a teen, my parents let me buy a second hand torch from a guy a I worked for. I used it to rebuild a 67 Scout. I had no instruction whatsoever, and there was no internet then. In retrospect I realize I broke almost every safety rule...I ran the torch with the bottles on their side, I ran too much pressure, I'd backfire it all the time, etc., etc. Maybe it was by the grace of God, but nothing ever blew up. Ditto for all my years in the fire department and working as a paramedic. The ONLY oxygen safety training we had was "don't smoke around oxygen". We used D, E and K tanks all the time. we would abuse the snot out them, drop them, throw the little ones around. We would run the O2 when we had a hangover. I have seen people forget to turn off the K tank in the rig after a call, and then drive down the road smoking with the O2 flowing. Again, maybe by the grace of God, but I never saw anyone I worked with get hurt by O2. I am not saying any of these things I mentioned are safe or proper, but simply that the Darwin theory seemed to pass us by, so maybe its not the nuclear bomb your instructor made it out to be.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:I'm guessing all these people that fear OA are the same type of people that file a lawsuit against McDonald's when they spill coffee on themselves.Man up, follow manufacture's recommendations, work safe, or take up knitting.Good grief guys, its a tool, learn to use it.