South Bend Lathe

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Anyone recognize this lathe. It is a south bend, but I dont know which model  It comes with lots of tools, 3 sets of jaws, various chucks for the tail stock, 5 different live centers, lots of cutting attachments..The guy wants $500. Is it worth it. he turned it on and cut some stock with it Attached Images
Reply:Looks like a B model, early 40's vintage.  It's worth about 500 bucks tops.What you really need to do is relieve the flat belt tension and grab the chuck in both hands and see how much side to side play there is in the spindle.Older SBL's all have plain (babbit) insert bearing headstocks and lack of lubrication is death and there is really no practical way to rebuild the bearings short of repouring and line boring them and then the spindle is probably shot if the bearings were run dry.A little play is acceptable.  Amy more than thr slightest of sideplay will render the machine unusable for anything requiring accuracy.The other issue is the ways are soft.  Modern lathes have hardened ways, those arent.  lots of use and lack of way lubricant wallows out the ways and renders the lathe inaccurate too.  The easiest way to tell if the ways are wallowed out is to lay a steel straightedge along the top edge of the prismatic (end to end) Vee and sight under the edge of the steel.  If it's wallowed, it's basically junk.  When SBL was in business you could ge a bed levelled and rescraped, something I did to my A years ago, but they are gone now and so is the availability of a remachining/scraping of the bed.Most of them look good but in reality are wallflowers.  People beat the tar out of them.500 tops with slight sideplay.  Scrap yard if more.
Reply:Looks like a South Bend 16" with a 5' bed. Model & Steam engine guys used to be pretty fond of them. If I'm seeing things right he's got a DC motor running the darn thing? Otherwise you only have 6 speeds. I'd say if the back gears are in good shape & you want a starter you could do a lot worse for that money.Matt
Reply:I think the only reason I have one (Model C) is I like the sound of a flat belt flumping on the pulleys.  My Servo Shift LeBlond is my go to machine.....  Mine is fully restored BTW.  5 years and lots of propretary prints later.....It's a 41 benchtop, 3 foot bed with a 3C Handwheel closer and a full set of collets, QC box, threading dial and 0.0015TIR..  Never do it again.  I'm too old and I have a shaper to match.  Cute machines.  Practical, not really.
Reply:Again. the deal breaker is the spindle TIR.  If it's sloppy, it's not worth much because the rebuild is cost prohibitive (pouring babbit is a lost art).  Wallowed ways are workable, it just wont turn bar length for crap.  Wallowed ways don't effect faceplate/chuck turning too much.  Spindle runout does.  A woobling wheel is hard to make run true.
Reply:Personally when lathe shopping I stayed away from the overhead belt designed lathes simply because of the safety factor.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTPersonally when lathe shopping I stayed away from the overhead belt designed lathes simply because of the safety factor.
Reply:Thank you guys for the input.  I went back over today took some more pictures of the lathe.  the numbers stamped on the tail stock are YD 238 and 48209.  so i gues it is from the early 1930's?  older than I thought.  Everything on it is tight, I relieved the belt tension and shook the heck out of it, no movement at all!  it could even feel the thing rock a little, and yes everything turns freely.  I put a straight edge on the ways and i did see any dips or wear.  The guy who is selling it said that it was his job every day to grease and oil the thing, it does have a coat of oil all over it so no rust, and I didn't see any areas where oil was pouring out.  It will need a good degreasing and new oil. any more suggestions of what I should be looking for?this is my first lathe so I want some thing that will be simple and reliable to learn with, so far I am about to find lots of documentation on these and parts seem easy enough to come by? Attached Images
Reply:I don't know if you've looked on Tony's site for any information, but here is a link. http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page12.htmlLincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by SidecarFlipThat overhead isn't the norm, it's just the way the motor is mounted.  Most mount behind the countershaft, not above it.If you are foolish enough to put your fingers in the flat belt drive, you deserve to loose them IMO.
Reply:A little spindle play in a south bend MIGHT not be a death sentence, although it requires some experience to fix. Most of them had the bearings intentionally poured, then bored, with shims between the top bearing caps and headstock. They did that on purpose, so the user could pull shims over time as the bearing wore. The babbit bearings will wear slowly (to the shaft, of course).It MAY have this, it may not. I'm not familiar enough on a model by model basis to know. In fact, there's a chance it has cast iron bearings. Some of the earlier ones actually used the cast iron headstock as the bearing itself. They are very tough but absolutely WILL NOT tolerate lack of lubrication. To be honest, I generally shy away from machines with rusting or pitting in them. If the owner couldn't have been bothered to slap a little oil on it to stop rusting, what else didn't they do..
Reply:you mentioned comes with lots tooling. IMO that's worth $500 right there. As well, if the lathe is completely f'd up, you can easily get $500 for the parts if you parse them out on eBay. Some gears go for $50 each, for instance.OTOH, I think it's a darned shame to take apart a lathe and sell it for parts as I think they are part of history and important to keep intact. Just saying...BTW, i bought a used 9A and took it all apart,cleaned it up and it's running great now. I payed $850 for it. But spent way over that in just basic tooling and I still don't have any collets.DaveDave VUSMC '74-'95South Bend 9A lathe 1942Marquette stick welder, oxy/acy, FCAWBuild 7/8 scale trains
Reply:Originally Posted by SidecarFlip... A woobling wheel is hard to make run true...
Reply:so I went ahead and bought the lathe, I pick it up next week.  I already brought home all of the tooling.  I have been doing a bunch of reading up and it seems like I should first tear the whole thing down and refurbish it. I have found tons of manuals, new and use parts.  I have also bought the bed feet so I can mount it on my workbench, so I will be getting rid of the legs and matching tray.  I was hoping some body could tell me what the YD238 stood for, the serial number puts it somewhere in 1934.I am also going to be replacing the motor with a new one possible a VFD to be able to vary the speed.any other suggestions?
Reply:Originally Posted by KF6OWCI am also going to be replacing the motor with a new one possible a VFD to be able to vary the speed.any other suggestions?
Reply:Originally Posted by SE18you mentioned comes with lots tooling. IMO that's worth $500 right there. As well, if the lathe is completely f'd up, you can easily get $500 for the parts if you parse them out on eBay. Some gears go for $50 each, for instance.OTOH, I think it's a darned shame to take apart a lathe and sell it for parts as I think they are part of history and important to keep intact. Just saying...BTW, i bought a used 9A and took it all apart,cleaned it up and it's running great now. I payed $850 for it. But spent way over that in just basic tooling and I still don't have any collets.Dave
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyForget the new motor and VFD unless the old motor is toast. You won't need to go slower than it is already set up for and the design isn't going to allow the spindle to spin much above what it is now without causing significant problems. If, in the future, you feel the need for speed and carbide tooling...buy your second lathe. Clean it up and start making chips!
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumI feel a country song coming on ...
Reply:Originally Posted by SidecarFlip3C or 3AT depending.  I have a full set including hex collets and 2 handwheel closers in a fitted oak box that I might sell for the right price.
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyFlipper, I'm more than likely wrong, but that doesn't look to be a 9" South Bend to me. Could be the precursor I suppose. Front apron just doesn't look to be right. Otherwise, if it isn't, those 3C collets are going to get lost inside the spindle...EDIT: Excuse me Flipper...thought you were speaking about the OP's lathe...
Reply:Flipper,I have a Bison 5C adjust-true collet chuck for the larger lathe and been mulling over purchasing one for the little 9" as well...may as well use those collets. I do have the handwheel collet closer set-up, but for non-through spindle work on stubbies it would give me a bit more latitude. Guess I could just purchase another back plate but a cheap ChiCom clone of the Bison would be not that much more and generally as good as would be needed for the old gal.BTW, first project after getting that collet chuck was to turn & mill up a chuck key to use on it using a spare Bridgeport speeder handle. Didn't take long for me to tire of that self-ejecting keyLincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:I have a Bison Adjustru on my 9" and a 6 jaw on the Leblond.  I've left the Tee Handle in the chuck before and embedded it in the wall insulation.....  I've slid a couple workpieces off the mag chuck on the surface grinder as well, forgetting to energize the magnets...  They come off the mag chuck real quick.....I gave the I think Cushman chuck away.  I kept the OEM 4 jaw but the 3 scroll was tired.You don't have enough thru hole for 5C's on a 9 do you?  That hole about fits my thumb..I sold the Atlas/Clausing.  Nice one owner machine completely tooled, some stuff was never used, in the original boxes, like the taper attachment and the follow rest and micrometer carriage stop.  It had a 3AT handwheel closer  and collets and a full box (never used) of Williams toolholders, in the original Williams metal case.Not a mark on the machine, just like showroom.  I kept the Dumore toolpost grinder, for what, I don't know.  I probably should have kept it (Atlas) but 2 between center nachines are enough and the spindle thru hole was a detraction.  I need a thru hole I can stick a barrel through.
Reply:I can always tell when the mills are running good.  I get an oil stripe across my chest.....Even the Haas does it.  Must be something about stacked bearing packs.......
Reply:Flipper, the self-ejecting key for that 5C collet chuck means business. I can't even keep it seated to reposition my hand for the next turn! Same thru hole as your South Bend, but with the length of the collets and a bit extra is would work for stubbies...and even on up about a 1/4" more than what the 3Cs would hold at max on thru pieces. I don't have a Dumore for the South Bend, but have one sized for the larger lathe. Also have a couple Bison full steel chucks for the larger lathe...3-jaw is an adjust-tru plus the ChiCom crap that came with it. Two toolposts for the South Bend so I can run either 1/4" or 5/16" tool bits/holders. I'd buy a Aloris clone for it, but it doesn't see enough work and I'm not going to be running carbide in it.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:If I didn't know any better I'd say that looks like an older model of my Sheldon lathe. Love mine, don't mind the open leather belt drive. It's real quiet and easy to change the speeds. Good for everything that I've used it for.Lincoln 180HDLincoln Squarewave 175Old Marquette Stick machineWell, the bad news is I was had!  the guy who sold me the lathe turned out not to be the person who owned it.  When I went to pick it up this week as agreed I was meet with his sister (who actually owns it)  She said take out of the will when there father passed (he was a electric motor repair guy) because of his drug use issues.  As it turns out this guy had stolen several thousands of dollars from the estate in order to support his drug habit.  The bill of sale he had wrote me means nothing as it wasn't his. I just happen to catch him at the property when he was there, (against a restraining order which I found out later)  the bad news was I paid him the full $500 for it and go the bill of sale from the guy thinking everything was ligit.  I couldn't pick it up at the time since I was headed out of town, but I didn't want to miss out since I have been looking for one in my price range for a couple of years.  When I paid for it I was about to get most of the tooling, (3 chucks a 4 and 3 tooth jaws and the tail stock)  but finding out it was essentially stolen property I returned it to the lady who owned it.  So now I have nothing!  and I didn't want to be in possession of stolen property!This was a listing on craigslist, I should have known better, but I was so excited to have it for what I though was a good price.The chance of me getting my money back is little, this guy is in the wind, he hasn't been seen in over 2 weeks!  the best the lady has told me is she would take $500 off the asking price for me.  either way I am pretty much screwed.worse it i paid cash so that is untrackable!  and trying to sue the guy isn't worth the fees and recovering money from a crack head never happens  Thanks guys for the input, now I get to start saving for another one......
Reply:Wow, that REALLY sucks.  So sorry to hear it.
Reply:Originally Posted by KF6OWChabit.  The bill of sale he had wrote me means nothing as it wasn't his.... the bad news was I paid him the full $500 for it and go the bill of sale from the guy thinking everything was ligit. The chance of me getting my money back is little, this guy is in the wind, he hasn't been seen in over 2 weeks! ...either way I am pretty much screwed.worse it i paid cash so that is untrackable!  and trying to sue the guy isn't worth the fees and recovering money from a crack head never happens
Reply:Wow, sorry to hear. Didn't see that one coming.
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyMight not ever get your money back, but you do have a bill of sale. With the bill of sale even if you paid hard cash it left a paper trail. Contact the local authorities and put his *** in jail for fraud.
Reply:Well, I bought the lathe ...over again. the family feeling bad about what happened offered to sell me the lathe for another $600 so now it has cost me $1100.  but at least I am dealing witht he right people.  the good news is the the families lawyer has drawn up a bill of sale for me to make sure alll the paper work is in the right order.  they have had no luck finding the family member who I had paid the first time to recover my money, and it is likely that I would never see it again.  So this was the only way the  I could see that I was going to get anything for what I had paid.  I probably paid too much but at least I don't feel like I lost my money.   Anyway the legs are going to go so if you or anybaduy you know is looking for the cast legs and matching tray for this style lathe let me know.
Reply:Originally Posted by KF6OWCWell, I bought the lathe ...over again. the family feeling bad about what happened offered to sell me the lathe for another $600 so now it has cost me $1100.  but at least I am dealing witht he right people.  the good news is the the families lawyer has drawn up a bill of sale for me to make sure alll the paper work is in the right order.  they have had no luck finding the family member who I had paid the first time to recover my money, and it is likely that I would never see it again.  So this was the only way the  I could see that I was going to get anything for what I had paid.  I probably paid too much but at least I don't feel like I lost my money.   Anyway the legs are going to go so if you or anybaduy you know is looking for the cast legs and matching tray for this style lathe let me know.