Am I an idiot and lose a job for “greed”?

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I recently got an email through a craigslist ad I posted last week about a bike rack for security/storage. One that you put the tire in a stall and chain the tire to it. This guy wanted 2. One that fits 6 bikes for one house, and one that fits 4 for another. I got on the phone and got a quote for 1x1 tubing, and figured with the rough measurements that totaled about 130+ feet of steel, I gave the guy an estimate of about $3,800-$4,200. He kind of gasped at first and I know it’s a big figure, but it’ll be time consuming and so on. Am I an ***? I see posts all the time about “how do I charge this and that” but I generally found that people go as high as $100 a foot for some material. I figured my price was much lower than that, like $30 a foot for material.Should I not feel bad? Or is this a mistake learned and if so, how can I learn from it? Thanks.
Reply:well what does yours look like?  he could buy several different kinds on amazon for under $100 to $500..heres one https://www.amazon.com/Hollywood-Rac...-goods&sr=1-16   now I know yours will be built better and stronger, but its not fort knox grade needed...to keep some one from stealing a bicycle when in reality it will take a minute with a 20volt dewalt angle grinder with a cutting blade in it to cut any lock or chain they use..
Reply:Seems like a lot to me. I markup my material 150% and then charge a price per hour usually around 75$So, Do you think the two bike racks would take more than a full 40 hour week to complete? Where I am there is no way I could charge even $1000 for a bike rack.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:That’s basically what I did. I’ve set my hourly rate to about $75, I figure maybe a solid week, a few hours after work each day, would’ve brought me to about what I said. I feel it was a bit much to charge but when marking up and hourly rate it’s what seemed to be okay. I told him on the phone it would be about $3k. Then he texted me other options like anchor plates, and square plates to put number placards on.
Reply:Originally Posted by J93WelderThat’s basically what I did. I’ve set my hourly rate to about $75, I figure maybe a solid week, a few hours after work each day, would’ve brought me to about what I said. I feel it was a bit much to charge but when marking up and hourly rate it’s what seemed to be okay. I told him on the phone it would be about $3k. Then he texted me other options like anchor plates, and square plates to put number placards on.
Reply:Seems high.  Will he want more?  Is there bending / forming involved?  Do you have the tools? Does your price include cleaning finishing/paint?  Much of the time the  first one is the most expensive. Good luck
Reply:Yes all of that, minus bending but I’ve got all the tools and all that included. He wanted each bike stall to have 1/4 welder plate so he could put numbers on them, and mounting plates to anchor to concrete. Plus, one house is well far away from me, so this also includes my travel and gas and so on. It’s just when you break it down it doesn’t seem too crazy. But I offered ways to maximize space and minimalizing material and if we did it a certain way it could easily be below $3,000 for both.
Reply:Originally Posted by J93WelderI recently got an email through a craigslist ad I posted last week about a bike rack for security/storage. One that you put the tire in a stall and chain the tire to it. This guy wanted 2. One that fits 6 bikes for one house, and one that fits 4 for another. I got on the phone and got a quote for 1x1 tubing, and figured with the rough measurements that totaled about 130+ feet of steel, I gave the guy an estimate of about $3,800-$4,200. He kind of gasped at first and I know it’s a big figure, but it’ll be time consuming and so on.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDavePersonally, I think you're high enough on price to be high on something.  I did this job at $3,500...I mean seriously man.https://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthrea...unt&highlight=This I drew 3 plans, got 1 approved, built/delivered/installed for even less...https://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthrea...ics&highlight=
Reply:Originally Posted by ronsiiI love that turret!!!!   It's on my todo list  one of these days!!!
Reply:That’s awesome! I’m new and I went off the info I saw. I figured 140 ft of stock, plus all the cutting and welding and grinding and painting, it didn’t seem too far off for an incredibly upscale town it’ll be in. Is there a way to fix it? I don’t want to be annoying to him, but would it be worth calling tomorrow and say I modified things slightly and I got some price savings down, and maybe do both for about $1200-$1500 a piece?
Reply:I would not lower the price.  Perhaps offer to build another one.  He has internet, perhaps he doesn't care about price and he also may know it takes money to run a business.  You cannot go by the price at 500 bucks, you cannot compete.  12 to 1500 for both seems like a swing in the negative direction, especially if you have not built one yet.
Reply:Since the number is out there, I would try to justify it. offer install, delivery, additional items... He may value time much more than money and be busy, the more you do the less he will have to think about it.will it be powder coated or galvanized? both require prep on your end.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderSince the number is out there, I would try to justify it. offer install, delivery, additional items... He may value time much more than money and be busy, the more you do the less he will have to think about it.will it be powder coated or galvanized? both require prep on your end.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderSince the number is out there, I would try to justify it. offer install, delivery, additional items... He may value time much more than money and be busy, the more you do the less he will have to think about it.will it be powder coated or galvanized? both require prep on your end.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI agree with you - if the number is valid, then an itemized breakdown will be easy to put together.But I can't imagine the number being valid...
Reply:Make sure you stress that it is a custom build.Idealarc 250AC 225SVictor OA-older made in USA stuff.And a crap ton of other stuff.
Reply:Years ago when I had to do like 10 quotes a day, my mind would wander horrible. So I devised a method of building the job in my head and recording the cost of each operation as the build went along in my mind. When done I would just add up the total and fire off the quote. I charted each cost of setup and gave an element charge to each operation. It got precise enough I taught it to my wife who now does the quoting while I slave away in the shop. Months later when the job finally is approved and a deposit made, we can review the job and produce the shop travelers for production. Also everyone gets charged the same without prejudice.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveHow come it says you have a Dialarc in your list of machines but have an Idealarc in your shop?
Reply:The Idealarc is the better machine but both are good. The Airco is priceless! Knew a shop that did specialty welding with a similar Airco but it was yellow. Was used pretty much full time for few decades before it finally gave up the ghost. The owner of the shop used to sell Airco and had a couple Airco (Miller) machines. Had a similar size AC/DC single phase stick welder that was red. Used an engine drive Airco CV welder (probably one of the 1st CV engine drives) with an Airco Mobilmatic wire feeder to weld stainless steel test cylinders for well testing. He converted a hyd. hose crimper to make the heads for the cylinders and then turned them in a lathe for welding. He used the motor and speed control off an Airco wire feeder (same as control for 10B radiograph) to turn the lathe at a slow precise speed. Cylinders were hydrotested and started to bulge at 16,000psi. He made thousand of these test cylinders. Orders would come in for 2-300 at a time. Sad to see Airco, original Hobart, Purox/Linde and some other brands go. Back in the day they were right up there with Lincoln and Miller. Lincoln was very late getting into Mig.Last edited by Welder Dave; 04-15-2020 at 03:06 PM.
Reply:I think you need to do more research on material costs but you are selling your expertise and labour. Wait and see if he comes back. Part of your expertise is estimating...Do not believe everything that you think.
Reply:How much did your material cost, I can't see the 1x1 tubing costing more than $20 eaIf you charge 30/ft thats like 3000% markup, usually 20%-50% markup is appropriateYou said 140 ft, that's 6 0r 7 lengths of tubing, which would be roughly $140,How about making a sketch of what you were thinking about building? http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:I'm thinking the OP has gone off to re-evaluate his estimating model while slugging back a 26'r.
Reply:I recall a member Wroughnharv suggest for pipe rail,  price by the joint.  That@a is where the work is done.This might a be an bid option in this case..
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalMan23How much did your material cost, I can't see the 1x1 tubing costing more than $20 eaIf you charge 30/ft thats like 3000% markup, usually 20%-50% markup is appropriateYou said 140 ft, that's 6 0r 7 lengths of tubing, which would be roughly $140,How about making a sketch of what you were thinking about building?I recently got an email through a craigslist ad I posted last week about a bike rack for security/storage. One that you put the tire in a stall and chain the tire to it. This guy wanted 2. One that fits 6 bikes for one house, and one that fits 4 for another. I got on the phone and got a quote for 1x1 tubing, and figured with the rough measurements that totaled about 130+ feet of steel, I gave the guy an estimate of about $3,800-$4,200. He kind of gasped at first and I know it’s a big figure, but it’ll be time consuming and so on. Am I an ***? I see posts all the time about “how do I charge this and that” but I generally found that people go as high as $100 a foot for some material. I figured my price was much lower than that, like $30 a foot for material.Should I not feel bad? Or is this a mistake learned and if so, how can I learn from it? Thanks.
Reply:well what does yours look like?  he could buy several different kinds on amazon for under $100 to $500..heres one https://www.amazon.com/Hollywood-Rac...-goods&sr=1-16   now I know yours will be built better and stronger, but its not fort knox grade needed...to keep some one from stealing a bicycle when in reality it will take a minute with a 20volt dewalt angle grinder with a cutting blade in it to cut any lock or chain they use..
Reply:Seems like a lot to me. I markup my material 150% and then charge a price per hour usually around 75$So, Do you think the two bike racks would take more than a full 40 hour week to complete? Where I am there is no way I could charge even $1000 for a bike rack.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:That’s basically what I did. I’ve set my hourly rate to about $75, I figure maybe a solid week, a few hours after work each day, would’ve brought me to about what I said. I feel it was a bit much to charge but when marking up and hourly rate it’s what seemed to be okay. I told him on the phone it would be about $3k. Then he texted me other options like anchor plates, and square plates to put number placards on.
Reply:Originally Posted by J93WelderThat’s basically what I did. I’ve set my hourly rate to about $75, I figure maybe a solid week, a few hours after work each day, would’ve brought me to about what I said. I feel it was a bit much to charge but when marking up and hourly rate it’s what seemed to be okay. I told him on the phone it would be about $3k. Then he texted me other options like anchor plates, and square plates to put number placards on.
Reply:Seems high.  Will he want more?  Is there bending / forming involved?  Do you have the tools? Does your price include cleaning finishing/paint?  Much of the time the  first one is the most expensive. Good luck
Reply:Yes all of that, minus bending but I’ve got all the tools and all that included. He wanted each bike stall to have 1/4 welder plate so he could put numbers on them, and mounting plates to anchor to concrete. Plus, one house is well far away from me, so this also includes my travel and gas and so on. It’s just when you break it down it doesn’t seem too crazy. But I offered ways to maximize space and minimalizing material and if we did it a certain way it could easily be below $3,000 for both.
Reply:Originally Posted by J93WelderI recently got an email through a craigslist ad I posted last week about a bike rack for security/storage. One that you put the tire in a stall and chain the tire to it. This guy wanted 2. One that fits 6 bikes for one house, and one that fits 4 for another. I got on the phone and got a quote for 1x1 tubing, and figured with the rough measurements that totaled about 130+ feet of steel, I gave the guy an estimate of about $3,800-$4,200. He kind of gasped at first and I know it’s a big figure, but it’ll be time consuming and so on.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDavePersonally, I think you're high enough on price to be high on something.  I did this job at $3,500...I mean seriously man.https://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthrea...unt&highlight=This I drew 3 plans, got 1 approved, built/delivered/installed for even less...https://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthrea...ics&highlight=
Reply:Originally Posted by ronsiiI love that turret!!!!   It's on my todo list  one of these days!!!
Reply:That’s awesome! I’m new and I went off the info I saw. I figured 140 ft of stock, plus all the cutting and welding and grinding and painting, it didn’t seem too far off for an incredibly upscale town it’ll be in. Is there a way to fix it? I don’t want to be annoying to him, but would it be worth calling tomorrow and say I modified things slightly and I got some price savings down, and maybe do both for about $1200-$1500 a piece?
Reply:I would not lower the price.  Perhaps offer to build another one.  He has internet, perhaps he doesn't care about price and he also may know it takes money to run a business.  You cannot go by the price at 500 bucks, you cannot compete.  12 to 1500 for both seems like a swing in the negative direction, especially if you have not built one yet.
Reply:Since the number is out there, I would try to justify it. offer install, delivery, additional items... He may value time much more than money and be busy, the more you do the less he will have to think about it.will it be powder coated or galvanized? both require prep on your end.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderSince the number is out there, I would try to justify it. offer install, delivery, additional items... He may value time much more than money and be busy, the more you do the less he will have to think about it.will it be powder coated or galvanized? both require prep on your end.
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderSince the number is out there, I would try to justify it. offer install, delivery, additional items... He may value time much more than money and be busy, the more you do the less he will have to think about it.will it be powder coated or galvanized? both require prep on your end.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI agree with you - if the number is valid, then an itemized breakdown will be easy to put together.But I can't imagine the number being valid...
Reply:Make sure you stress that it is a custom build.Idealarc 250AC 225SVictor OA-older made in USA stuff.And a crap ton of other stuff.
Reply:Years ago when I had to do like 10 quotes a day, my mind would wander horrible. So I devised a method of building the job in my head and recording the cost of each operation as the build went along in my mind. When done I would just add up the total and fire off the quote. I charted each cost of setup and gave an element charge to each operation. It got precise enough I taught it to my wife who now does the quoting while I slave away in the shop. Months later when the job finally is approved and a deposit made, we can review the job and produce the shop travelers for production. Also everyone gets charged the same without prejudice.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveHow come it says you have a Dialarc in your list of machines but have an Idealarc in your shop?
Reply:The Idealarc is the better machine but both are good. The Airco is priceless! Knew a shop that did specialty welding with a similar Airco but it was yellow. Was used pretty much full time for few decades before it finally gave up the ghost. The owner of the shop used to sell Airco and had a couple Airco (Miller) machines. Had a similar size AC/DC single phase stick welder that was red. Used an engine drive Airco CV welder (probably one of the 1st CV engine drives) with an Airco Mobilmatic wire feeder to weld stainless steel test cylinders for well testing. He converted a hyd. hose crimper to make the heads for the cylinders and then turned them in a lathe for welding. He used the motor and speed control off an Airco wire feeder (same as control for 10B radiograph) to turn the lathe at a slow precise speed. Cylinders were hydrotested and started to bulge at 16,000psi. He made thousand of these test cylinders. Orders would come in for 2-300 at a time. Sad to see Airco, original Hobart, Purox/Linde and some other brands go. Back in the day they were right up there with Lincoln and Miller. Lincoln was very late getting into Mig.Last edited by Welder Dave; 04-15-2020 at 03:06 PM.
Reply:I think you need to do more research on material costs but you are selling your expertise and labour. Wait and see if he comes back. Part of your expertise is estimating...Do not believe everything that you think.
Reply:How much did your material cost, I can't see the 1x1 tubing costing more than $20 eaIf you charge 30/ft thats like 3000% markup, usually 20%-50% markup is appropriateYou said 140 ft, that's 6 0r 7 lengths of tubing, which would be roughly $140,How about making a sketch of what you were thinking about building? http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:I'm thinking the OP has gone off to re-evaluate his estimating model while slugging back a 26'r.
Reply:I recall a member Wroughnharv suggest for pipe rail,  price by the joint.  That@a is where the work is done.This might a be an bid option in this case..
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalMan23How much did your material cost, I can't see the 1x1 tubing costing more than $20 eaIf you charge 30/ft thats like 3000% markup, usually 20%-50% markup is appropriateYou said 140 ft, that's 6 0r 7 lengths of tubing, which would be roughly $140,How about making a sketch of what you were thinking about building?