Starting out- first semi-formal bid propsal. Need help.

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Hello.Haven't posted in awhile as i've been trying to find time to start a business with young kids, getting divorce, other issues, etc. Anyway- i have a connection to get a job making some signposts in my hometown with a decorative CNC cut top. Haven't done any business classes or school.Fairly straight forward fabrication, but i had some questions about how to make my bid professional but also really want the job as it is great potential visibility in my hometown, marketing opportunity, etc.1) How detailed do you get with your bids? Personally, i want them to see what they're paying for and give a boilerplate explanation of all that is done while clarifying what is or is not included, but i don't want to show the exact price of every material for example. Do you markup your materials based on S&H considerations? Include a separate line item? So what do you include?2)if i get the job or if they accept initial proposal, How do you guys draw up a contract? Do you ever require a down payment or deposit? should i do it basic by myself or find legal help?3)How much do you guys charge for basic shop rate, from what i've seen on here, varies greatly $75-200/hr. I had planned on starting much lower than that until my process is proven and to possibly increase my marketability, but i know there are obvious downsides. 4)The proposal will include creative design and CNC work, i had assumed that i would charge more for that hourly, but it does not exactly include as much overhead, so how do you guys price creative work and table time as compared to general shop rate?5)Do you guys ever include a separate line item for a discount or "comp" for marketing consideration if an item is to be installed in an area of high visibility?Yes i realize i am clueless. I appreciate any and all thoughts.ThanksInvertec 350 Pro LN-25 (2)Hobart Mega-Arc 350D
Reply:Personally I have not done formal bidding so keep that in mind as you read my suggestions. Lately people are glad just to get something done without a lot of price shopping. I would be precisely vague. Huh? I would list everything that is included in broad lines like material price and specs (gauge), if painted/powder coated, delivery/pickup, installation (material and technique), etc. I would even state plasma cutting at $?/ hour without specifying the number of hours because you’ll likely eat a lot of the hours, but if they ask for changes or additional work you have something to refer to. Just be sure your costs are covered plus. Many add 10% of materials or subcontractors in the total to cover delivery and float until you get paid. Don’t forget extra labor or contracting, consumables, mileage, or equipment rentals that may be required. Add some for contingencies like cutting an underground cable, etc. Then expect some negotiations so have some added in that you can afford to throw out. My old boss said when negotiating “make them tell you NO” meaning negotiate and ask for everything you can until they finally say no. A lot of purchasers think they must get some discount or they aren’t doing their job. So give them some consideration then say “no” to anything else.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Ok interesting. One of my biggest difficulties is being my own salesman so that is good to keep in mind while negotiating on my own behalf. This particular job doesn't involve finish or install so it's ideal for me in a few ways.Invertec 350 Pro LN-25 (2)Hobart Mega-Arc 350D
Reply:I give a fair amount of detail, but often just refer to a drawing if one is available. I only give one price, and the is whatever is described and delivered or installed (whichever they want) I don’t list materials or labor, it just gives them ammo to try to knock the price down.  The biggest trick is getting the price high enough to where they make a face, then give you a deposit. Too high and hey make a face and tell you to screw off, too low they smile and give you a deposit.
Reply:Was there an advertised open for bids? If so, what did they specify as requirements in the ad?ChrisAuction Addict
Reply:Just put the basics or customers will chisel you. write all the steps material types and one price. Local sign shop does not even put little stickers on his work anymore. If your good it will speak for it's self. Take pictures and such for your own media. I usually figure up the jobs at what I think I should make, Then my mom doubles it and I still get the work. Most important thing for me has been honesty, a good hand shake and a likable personality. With Municipality's Just give them the price your going to make money at and do it for that or get sued...
Reply:Do you meet the minimum requirements as a business to bid?  Bid to make money and don't compromise because it seem like a good opportunity for promotion.  Anticipate current market pricing instability.  Double,triple or quadruple what you think you can do it for.  I looked at a potential job today.  The initial contractor is AWOL.  He started this job 20 weeks ago.  If he did not acquire all the material upon approval and deposit acceptance ,  then he may be screwed due to current prices.So, don't be timid on the bid.  Good luck.
Reply:Thanks for the feedback.When i say "semi-formal" i mean i went to school with the wife of the guy who offered me the job. So i know it's far from formal or official but i want to start to rehearse the proces for myself. I just want to make it look professional in case he passes it on to other city officials. I can produce my welding certs if need be.I always wonder how big people's eyes get when they see how much even mild steel costs.Invertec 350 Pro LN-25 (2)Hobart Mega-Arc 350D
Reply:Originally Posted by IronBearI always wonder how big people's eyes get when they see how much even mild steel costs.
Reply:Originally Posted by IronBearI always wonder how big people's eyes get when they see how much even mild steel costs.