A couple issues with a bandsaw

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Saw is a jet 7x12 deluxe.  It is my first bandsaw, so I'm still learning.  As of right now I have two main issues. 1.  I recently made a lot of cuts in the vertical mode, about 11 hours worth.  I was leaning fairly hard on the blade during this cutting.  When I went back to horizontal, the blade was no longer cutting square to the table.  After adjusting the guides per the manual, I have been unable to get the blade square.  The manual states "the maximum thickness variation on any test piece should be no more than 0.003 inch, per side, per inch of stock diameter, which is .003x2(sides)x2(inches of tube), or .012".  I'm getting .040" variation.  I realize that square tube isn't round solid, but it's what I have.  Any ideas?2. When the saw cuts its way through the square tube it works fine up and until the blade is fully engaged in the bottom wall, at which point the blade stalls.  The motor continues to run.  Is this a motor belt tension issue or a band tension issue?  Or both/either? Or something else?I'm using a 5/8 TPI blade as well as the Lenox Lube Tube lubricant as I am not using coolant.  I will also add that I think I may have over-used the Lube Tube, as I have had to clean quite a bit of build up off the bearings.  I do wonder if this is possibly related to problem #1 above.  Thanks in advance for any advice/help.  I'm about 450 cuts into a 650 cut project, but I'm dead in the water until I can figure this out.
Reply:I would try a new blade first. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk:
Reply:11 hours of vertical cuts leaning hard on blade -  you need a new blade. Probably worn more on one side than the other so when sawing on its own downward pressure it is pulling to one side. A new good quality bimetal blade with appropriate tooth count will put you back to original, but if you made adjustments you will likely have to re-do the adjustments.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 120www.10FtDrillBit.comwww.MyWelds.com - pictures of my work
Reply:Are you cutting straight or miter?  Miters often need to be held tightly with addition clamps or they will slide in the vise.  Round stock will rotate in the vise and give the appearance of off square cutting.Combine round and miters cut and it gets interesting.  Ultimately there is not much contact area between the fence and round tube.  Add clampsCheck for movement.  If you are cutting straight And square stock, then I would check the blade.Last edited by tapwelder; 4 Days Ago at 11:38 AM.
Reply:1.  I recently made a lot of cuts in the vertical mode, about 11 hours worth.  I was leaning fairly hard on the blade during this cutting.  When I went back to horizontal, the blade was no longer cutting square to the table.  After adjusting the guides per the manual, I have been unable to get the blade square.  The manual states "the maximum thickness variation on any test piece should be no more than 0.003 inch, per side, per inch of stock diameter, which is .003x2(sides)x2(inches of tube), or .012".  I'm getting .040" variation.  I realize that square tube isn't round solid, but it's what I have.  Any ideas?
Reply:To adjust the blade,, you need one of these,,,

If you do not have that tool,, it is almost impossible to get a saw perfect.(Three gauges are shown in that pic, so that you have multiple views of the gauge)Here is how the gauge connects to the blade.

With the gauge on the blade,, you have a L O N G surface that can be squared to the saw.
Reply:Just having that tool, must improve your chances of alignment.  I have several and never use one.   I ordered one and got 7 or so off eBay.Higher Head pressure also cause blade deflection.  Ellis has a procedure and spec for the ideal pressure.  When you get the blade square you may want too identify the head weight. Is thst a 3/4 inch blade?
Reply:

Originally Posted by tapwelder

Just having that tool, must improve your chances of alignment.  I have several and never use one.   I ordered one and got 7 or so off eBay.Higher Head pressure also cause blade deflection.  Ellis has a procedure and spec for the ideal pressure.  When you get the blade square you may want too identify the head weight. Is thst a 3/4 inch blade?
Reply:Ellis saw company recommends using a fishing scale to check head weight. I bought one from Walmart and use that. Sent from my SM-G996U using TapatalkMillermatic 252 MIGMiller Dynasty 200DX TIGMiller Spectrum 625 PlasmaAltas 12x36 Metal LatheBridgeport Milling Machinewww.psacustomcreations.com
Reply:Lots of pertinent advice above.  Follow it and you should resolve your problems.In short,1 - replace the blade with new.2 - realign the blade guides3 - ensure blade is tensioned correctly4 - ensure that the counterbalance spring is set correctly.Miller Trailblazer Pro 350DMiller Suitcase MIGMiller Spectrum 2050Miller Syncrowave 250DXLincoln 210MP
Reply:One of the things that gets me, especially on YouTube, is the "experts" have no clue how to use a band saw properly. Seems like 99 percent of them have the blade guides set as far apart as possible. To me that is probably the biggest cause of blade deflection. Of course a sharp blade, with proper pitch is required also
Reply:

Originally Posted by M J D

One of the things that gets me, especially on YouTube, is the "experts" have no clue how to use a band saw properly. Seems like 99 percent of them have the blade guides set as far apart as possible. To me that is probably the biggest cause of blade deflection. Of course a sharp blade, with proper pitch is required also
Reply:How many folk actually move their guide arms.  I have played with them probably 4 times in 23 yrs.  Usually they are wide open.  Your saw is new?  Ironically, have you searched on long for folk with the like saw.  Sometimes there are tweets to lower end saws the may need to be performed prior to getting consistent cuts.  Some have casting flaws, that need correcting.  I don’t know anything about that jet deluxe.
Reply:I move the guide arms pretty regularly on my saw. I am cutting 9 inch items then 3 inch items. I don't like the extra bow that can happen with smaller items. Sent from my SM-G996U using TapatalkMillermatic 252 MIGMiller Dynasty 200DX TIGMiller Spectrum 625 PlasmaAltas 12x36 Metal LatheBridgeport Milling Machinewww.psacustomcreations.com
Reply:

Originally Posted by tapwelder

How many folk actually move their guide arms.  I have played with them probably 4 times in 23 yrs.  Usually they are wide open.  Your saw is new?  Ironically, have you searched on long for folk with the like saw.  Sometimes there are tweets to lower end saws the may need to be performed prior to getting consistent cuts.  Some have casting flaws, that need correcting.  I don’t know anything about that jet deluxe.
Reply:To the OP.  Adjusting the guides in while vertical cutting will resist some of the deflection while caused by the force you applied.  This may be the cause of your blade wear.While horizontal cutting, I have never noticed any appreciable advantage over cutting with blades guides close vs wide open.  Even with 1/2 inch blade.  The point of initial contact is the same regardless of stock girth.  Perhaps the width/ saw capacity may make a difference???.  However I thing the error would be horizontal or curved rather than vertical drift.  But, then you are cutting smaller stock.  When I get that I change the blade.  Good luck Hope you get your saw running.Last edited by tapwelder; 4 Days Ago at 08:23 PM.
Reply:No need for stick lube.  What is you blade thick thickened.  My 1/2” were .025. My 1” blade is .035.  I once was sold some 1/2x .018 blades. They were fabbed locally.  They would not stay true. Not sure what is typical for 3/4 thickness.  Didn’t you have your blade fabbed locally?
Reply:First, thank you everybody.  I am a bit overwhelmed, but learning a lot.  To clear up some things: cutting straight, 3/4" blade, .035" thick.I'm making two cuts.  First, 6" schedule 40 pipe, cut into 1 " thick rings in the horizontal position.  Then, I take those 1" thick rings and chop them up into six segments in the vertical position.  The rings lay flat in a jig, so the saw is cutting through 1" of material.  I realize this may not be ideal, but it's the only way I could think to get the cuts similar in length. Here's the project with pics.

Originally Posted by Louie1961

What size stock are you cutting? 5/8 TPI implies you are cutting something like 1 inch thick material. On my 4x6 saw, I run a 14/18 TPI blade for just about anything under 1/4 inch wall thickness. See here:  https://www.lenoxtools.com/Guides/LE...d_20Sawing.pdf
Reply:Ho lop, ho lup!  I just realize we have never seen the saw.  We have only seen the box on the trailer.  Dude got a new toy and ain’t shared no photo, but of the box.  Gotta do better…
Reply:

Originally Posted by tapwelder

Ho lop, ho lup!  I just realize we have never seen the saw.  We have only seen the box on the trailer.  Dude got a new toy and ain’t shared no photo, but of the box.  Gotta do better
Reply:don't beat yourself up. it's some kind of glitch.

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Reply:Nice.  That stick lube might cause issues.  That brush probably has difficult time clearing the stick chips.  May cause some blade deflection, too.  There is also an ideal clearance gap between blade and roller. The seam must be able to clear.  Guides rollers do not dictate straight verical cut as much as the twist bringing the blade close to vertical. The roller just fine tunes. Those alignment tools sweetmk listed will work well for setup.  Good luck
Reply:

Originally Posted by SweetMK

To adjust the blade,, you need one of these,,,

If you do not have that tool,, it is almost impossible to get a saw perfect.(Three gauges are shown in that pic, so that you have multiple views of the gauge)Here is how the gauge connects to the blade.

With the gauge on the blade,, you have a L O N G surface that can be squared to the saw.
Reply:That stick lubricant will be fine. Definitely useful on aluminum as it really helps prevent chip welding.
Reply:

Originally Posted by tiggen

First, thank you everybody.  I am a bit overwhelmed, but learning a lot.  To clear up some things: cutting straight, 3/4" blade, .035" thick.I'm making two cuts.  First, 6" schedule 40 pipe, cut into 1 " thick rings in the horizontal position.  Then, I take those 1" thick rings and chop them up into six segments in the vertical position.  The rings lay flat in a jig, so the saw is cutting through 1" of material.  I realize this may not be ideal, but it's the only way I could think to get the cuts similar in length. Here's the project with pics.I've read this chart before, and I'm not sure I'm reading it correctly.  The saw came with a 5/8 blade, which I destroyed in short order (not sure if it was because I had too much speed, pressure, or just too few teeth) while cutting the 6" pipe in rings horizontally. I replaced with another 5/8 balde, which seemed to do ok with the veritcal chopping of the 1" thick rings.I have a 6/10 and an 8/12 ready to go.  Should I use one of them for the horizontal cuts?I plan to do all of the above, but do I need fiddle with the counterbalance spring if I'm not even close to running the hydraulic feed control wide open?That is a nice comprehensive guide to bandsawing, but I find this sheet I got off Bandsawbladesdirect.com to be a great quick reference chart.https://www.bandsawbladesdirect.com/...-Selection.pdf-DaveXMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled
Reply:

Originally Posted by tapwelder

These definitely work.  I used to wonder why must bandsaw head are offset….
Reply:

Originally Posted by tapwelder

Anyway,  did you get your saw aligned?