random tig start sputter

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ive got a vulcan protig 200, the lincoln knockoff they stopped selling.  i get random no starts on the arc while tig welding aluminum. 2-3 seconds of a very weak spark, then nothing. after a bunch of tries, out of nowhere it lights. once lit, it maintains a nice arc, real clean puddle.  im welding 3/16 plate, fillets. its high quality plate from a machine shop, not extruded crap. real clean, wire brushed. i have the amps maxed at 200. i mash the pedal, it either lights off nicely and i back off the pedal, or sputters as above at full pedal. arc balance and frequency seem to have no effect on the starts. the torch is a wp-20, water cooled. im using glycol free RV antifreeze in the cooler, could that be an issue? i have a # 17 air cooled torch, maybe that would be something to try, see if it improves?    im using 3/32 tungsten, tried both red and blue. at first i thought the red was more reliable, but over time both are the same. i have a nice little ball, real clean, no contamination. ball or ground to a taper makes no difference in the starts. straight argon at 15 cfh. bumping it it up or down has no effect on the starts.  always seems to light off nice on the first use, then goes down hill. not sure its a duty cycle, im a 2 inch welder at best, still need to learn to feed rod thru the fingers. ps- tigs very well on steel using DC.   live with it? i certainly dont weld aluminum enough to get another unit, unless one comes my way cheap. anyway,  thanksLast edited by mhooker32; 1 Week Ago at 11:07 PM.
Reply:rv antifreeze wont have nothing to do with it. even with no fluid it should weld fine although it will over heat the torch head after a whileinvertig 221 water cooledhypertherm powermax 30xpfronius transpocket 180fronius transsteel 2200fronius iwave 230i water cooled
Reply:

Originally Posted by cornchip

rv antifreeze wont have nothing to do with it. even with no fluid it should weld fine although it will over heat the torch head after a while
Reply:ya ive read about that but i dont think its a big deal. change to a different fluid if you think it will helpinvertig 221 water cooledhypertherm powermax 30xpfronius transpocket 180fronius transsteel 2200fronius iwave 230i water cooled
Reply:

Originally Posted by mhooker32

ive got a vulcan protig 200, the lincoln knockoff they stopped selling.  i get random no starts on the arc while tig welding aluminum. 2-3 seconds of a very weak spark, then nothing. after a bunch of tries, out of nowhere it lights. once lit, it maintains a nice arc, real clean puddle.  im welding 3/16 plate, fillets. its high quality plate from a machine shop, not extruded crap. real clean, wire brushed. i have the amps maxed at 200. i mash the pedal, it either lights off nicely and i back off the pedal, or sputters as above at full pedal. arc balance and frequency seem to have no effect on the starts. the torch is a wp-20, water cooled. im using glycol free RV antifreeze in the cooler, could that be an issue? i have a # 17 air cooled torch, maybe that would be something to try, see if it improves?    im using 3/32 tungsten, tried both red and blue. at first i thought the red was more reliable, but over time both are the same. i have a nice little ball, real clean, no contamination. ball or ground to a taper makes no difference in the starts. straight argon at 15 cfh. bumping it it up or down has no effect on the starts.  always seems to light off nice on the first use, then goes down hill. not sure its a duty cycle, im a 2 inch welder at best, still need to learn to feed rod thru the fingers. ps- tigs very well on steel using DC.   live with it? i certainly dont weld aluminum enough to get another unit, unless one comes my way cheap. anyway,  thanks
Reply:Yea, this would be a High Frequency problem...Don't know anything about your ProTig 200 (always heard good things though

) but in many machines there are "points" who's Gap can be adjusted and this would be the first place I would go to (again if it relies on a points system to regulate the HF).Should say in the Manual I'd think!
Reply:

Originally Posted by BaTu

Yea, this would be a High Frequency problem...Don't know anything about your ProTig 200 (always heard good things though

) but in many machines there are "points" who's Gap can be adjusted and this would be the first place I would go to (again if it relies on a points system to regulate the HF).Should say in the Manual I'd think!
Reply:

Originally Posted by mhooker32

ive got a vulcan protig 200, the lincoln knockoff they stopped selling.  i get random no starts on the arc while tig welding aluminum. 2-3 seconds of a very weak spark, then nothing. after a bunch of tries, out of nowhere it lights. once lit, it maintains a nice arc, real clean puddle.  im welding 3/16 plate, fillets. its high quality plate from a machine shop, not extruded crap. real clean, wire brushed. i have the amps maxed at 200. i mash the pedal, it either lights off nicely and i back off the pedal, or sputters as above at full pedal. arc balance and frequency seem to have no effect on the starts. the torch is a wp-20, water cooled. im using glycol free RV antifreeze in the cooler, could that be an issue? i have a # 17 air cooled torch, maybe that would be something to try, see if it improves?    im using 3/32 tungsten, tried both red and blue. at first i thought the red was more reliable, but over time both are the same. i have a nice little ball, real clean, no contamination. ball or ground to a taper makes no difference in the starts. straight argon at 15 cfh. bumping it it up or down has no effect on the starts.  always seems to light off nice on the first use, then goes down hill. not sure its a duty cycle, im a 2 inch welder at best, still need to learn to feed rod thru the fingers. ps- tigs very well on steel using DC.   live with it? i certainly dont weld aluminum enough to get another unit, unless one comes my way cheap. anyway,  thanks
Reply:Touching the tungsten to the work piece does help 99% of the time on my 205. Seems to be common on the 200 and 205. Never had a problem on DC. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:i tried an air cooled torch, same issue.  i tried touching the tungsten to the work, no help. one thing that works is using it like its  lift tig. touching the work, hitting the petal and lifting the torch. makes it much more likely to arc up. i dont do a lot of aluminum, and it works well for everything thing else. so i can live with it. i will keep my eye out for an upgrade, but it needs to be budget. lots out there, any suggestions? thanks
Reply:As Shovelton stated. Scratch the tungsten before initiating an arc. My Dyn 300DX does this and I have a habit of doing this as well.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:Usually a bad ground when mine does that.CG
Reply:I agree with the others, touching the tungsten to the workpiece does help with arc starts. I find it helps get clean starts if you get the gas flowing out of the cup before touching the tungsten to the workpiece as well.Problems with loose connections in the welding circuit can also cause that kind of behavior.Is this a machine you just picked up or one that you've used without issue until now? Any idea how many hours it has on it?Are you running it on an extension cord or anything like that?Is the power outlet you're using on the same circuit as other devices? Is it rated for the input requirements on the machine?To me, it does sound like you may have a faulty high frequency start board, it happens even on high end machines like a Miller Maxstar/Dynasty. They start having a really hard time getting the arc to start when that board starts to die, then one day it'll just throw an error code when you hit the pedal. On the Miller machines you can swap to lift arc instead of high freq and it'll light off just fine. If that machine has lift or even scratch start you could try that to see if it behaves the same or not.When the high freq board starts to die but hasn't fully crapped out it'll sit there and sputter before eventually it will light. Often times the arc wants to come off the gas lens or high up in the tungsten instead of down near the sharpened end even with fresh torch parts/tungsten.Coolant type can affect the arc starter but it's incredibly minor and I've only seen it matter on automatic machine welders welding foil thickness (below 0.010" thick). At that point you usually want to have a bonding strap on the ceramic cup as well since the flow of argon through the cup can build up a static charge large enough to disrupt extremely low amp starts. For the typical manual welder the coolant type won't matter so long as it doesn't let sludge grow in the reservoir.
Reply:think i found the problem. too much argon flow. i was playing around, wanted to see how low i could go on the flow and still get good results.  i was running 12-15 , but of course being not my usual regulator, didnt realize it was liters per min. i cut down to 7, which google math says about 14 cfh. at that point i get perfect HF starts, nary a sputter. learn something new every day. thanks