About to throw in the towel

admin

Hi guy. I'm a novice TIG welder and started last year and have been practicing on and off mostly on steel and a little on aluminum and stainless. For the last 6 months, I cannot for the life of me get a clean arc going, meaning that when I start an arc, I get sparks of metal flying all over the place and the workpiece has a big brown **** stain on it. It's as though I'm welding with no argon but I know I have argon because it's a huge brand new bottle that worked fine at first.I'll describe my setup and what I've tried so far. I have a PRIMEWELD TIG225X with a CK Worldwide CK17  flex torch, Every consumable I use is CK Worldwide. I've tried Furick cups (sizes 10 and 12) used with 3/32 tungsten. I have literally every type of tungsten there is including blue, purple, pink, Lazer green, gray, red, and maybe some I might be forgetting.I tried gas lens configurations with friction collets and standard configurations with no gas lenses. I used an angle grinder to polish metal that showed signs of oxidation and then cleaned them in acetone. I cleaned the filler rod with acetone. There's no air circulation because it's in an enclosed garage so there's no chance of argon being blown away. All my tungstens are sharpened to a point with no oxidation with a slightly blunt tip as was suggested by Miller.I removed and re-tightened all hoses going from the gas tank to the machine and ground and DINSE connector on the front.I have officially reached the point where I don't know what I can try next and am about ready to find a place to fire sale all this stuff off to. I've spent hundreds on consumables of all different shapes and sizes and nothing I do is making a lick of difference.I figured a final hail Mary by seeking help on Reddit and welding forums might give me something to try that I may have missed. I don't care about feeling stupid if it was something simple just so long as I can actually practice welding again.Can anyone think of anything I missed?
Reply:Do you know anyone that's an experienced TIG welder? Offer him a couple beer to come and try out your machine... find out if it's you or the welder.The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Are you sure you're getting gas flow out of the torch, and is flow sufficient?NRA LIFE MEMBERUNITWELD 175 AMP 3 IN1 DCMIDSTATES 300 AMP AC MACHINELET'S GO BRANDON!"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
Reply:

Originally Posted by costapowicz

...For the last 6 months, I cannot for the life of me get a clean arc going, meaning that when I start an arc, I get sparks of metal flying all over the place and the workpiece has a big brown **** stain on it. It's as though I'm welding with no argon but I know I have argon because it's a huge brand new bottle that worked fine at first....Can anyone think of anything I missed?
Reply:Its either bad gas (mislabeled or they contaminated it when they filled it), lack of sufficient gas flow or incorrect polarity. I would swap out the bottle for a different one as a first step.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:The brown smoke does sound like no/ too little gas.Stupid question. Are you on DCEN?Airco Auto-Pak 130Forney 235AC/DC
Reply:Don't give up. If you got it to work once, you can get it to work again. As they said in "The Six-Million-Dollar Man," we have the technology...  Gas mixups by gas suppliers are more common than you probably think. That would be my first suspect. I believe "the wrong gas or gas mixture" (in other words, a MIG gas mixture) can cause the brown stains you describe.  You want straight argon, straight helium or a mixture of those two gases AND NOTHING ELSE.After that, maybe a leak in your torch/hose...I've heard that sometimes a leak in the hose or torch can pull in outside air (though I don't understand how if the hose is at higher pressure than atmospheric pressure, but that's what I've read here if I recall right)...  Welcome to the forum, good luck, and be sure to let us know the culprit when (not "if") you identify it.
Reply:

Originally Posted by StandarDyne

After that, maybe a leak in your torch/hose...I've heard that sometimes a leak in the hose or torch can pull in outside air (though I don't understand how if the hose is at higher pressure than atmospheric pressure, but that's what I've read here if I recall right)...  .
Reply:Are you sure the selenoid is opening when you press footpedal? I have had a bad one on old TIG welder. Easy to change. Also verify polarity for steel vs aluminum. You may have them crossed.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 120www.10FtDrillBit.comwww.MyWelds.com - pictures of my work
Reply:Use something to plug the cup so not much gas comes out (I'd whittle a piece of red oak) & electrical tape it in place. Then, with gas running go around with a small flame candle. A gas leak will make the candle flicker, or go out entirely. You have a gas problem. Not enough, too much, wrong gas, it's mixing with air from a leak.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:There was just a thread like this recently where it turned out the gas supplier had sold the guy a bottle of "argon" but it was actually filled with nitrogen on accident. Call your supplier and ask them which specific grade of argon they gave you, maybe they'll realize the error was on their end. It's possibly too that the vale on the gas bottle is bad, are you opening the valve fully so that it can seal the valve stem?I'd suspect the gas supply first of all if there's actual sparks coming off when you strike an arc, but posting pictures of your welds, your setup and the machine can always help with diagnosing problems. Your argon bottle might be filled with argon but at too low of a purity level for welding, maybe the supplier didn't hear that you were using it to weld or thought you were MIG welding? The "industrial grade" argon many gas suppliers sell isn't suitable for TIG welding because TIG needs low moisture and contaminant levels for the gas supply. That's part of why you can run Argon-oxygen mixes with MIG on mild steel but if you try and do the same for TIG you're probably going to have a bad time. It's not going to be anything to do with your tungsten, type, size or manner of prepping unless you prep it by rubbing it across an oil stain on the concrete or something obviously wrong like that. There's no way I can think of to load that much contamination onto a tungsten that you get sparks and it doesn't all eventually burn off. Gas lens/gas flow and gas leaks are a possible cause but again I don't think they'd get you sparks, that's a sign of there being severe contamination in the shielding gas. Small leaks in the gas line or problems with gas flow rate usually let you weld but the weld is always scummy and behaves weird. With leaks sometimes the problem goes away or gets worse if the leak is in the torch as things heat up/cool down. And on the topic of cups, if you want to use the Furick ones I won't tell you what to use or not use but we did a bunch of Schlieren photography which lets you see the actual gas flow coming out of the cup and found that the furick ones weren't noticeably different than the more standard miller or ck wide gas lens body with pink ceramic cup. I think we tested the Fupa's specifically (which fun fact, the #12 fupa actually measures  0.812" in diameter which would make it a #13 cup) and they actually performed worse if you had any kind of disturbance in the weld area or were forced to run an extreme length stickout. Real world testing did prove out what we saw with the schlieren but both cups/styles make acceptable welds under normal non-disturbance conditions using a typical 3/4"-1" stickout and a #12 cup (the fupa obviously needs a higher gas flow to accommodate the bigger diameter). The price difference was what made us stick with the pink cups in the end.
Reply:How is you mild steel welding experience? What joint are you welding? Could be too much gas flow ? GoodLuck
Reply:bad gas happened to me as well- both from the supplier and Taco Bell.

Seriously, I did get a bad jug from the supplier. It sucks when trying to learn.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:I have experienced bad gas before, too.  Even had a two contaminated tanks over the years.
Reply:I read it so often, the gas was contaminated. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, at 52 years welding, it hasn't happened to me.I've experienced the OP's problem many times. Mostly, I forgot to turn on the gas. Other times a leak. I've never used wrong gas, but it happens.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:I think you guys are right. Has to be contaminated gas. I took apart everything after this post and put it back together like the day I bought it all. Same thing. I have pictures now. I called Linde and they told me they'd check it out if I bring it in, whatever that means. The tank clearly says Argon on it. Here are the pictures I took like some of you requested. https://postimg.cc/gallery/B6VMNCW
Reply:

Originally Posted by costapowicz

I think you guys are right. Has to be contaminated gas. I took apart everything after this post and put it back together like the day I bought it all. Same thing. I have pictures now. I called Linde and they told me they'd check it out if I bring it in, whatever that means. The tank clearly says Argon on it. Here are the pictures I took like some of you requested. https://postimg.cc/gallery/B6VMNCW
Reply:Zero coverage.That is 100% no gas or wrong gas.
Reply:I've been tigging about 12 years. Never had bad gas but I have forgotten to turn it on, and IIRC, I got brown marks like those in the pics.
Reply:

Originally Posted by danielplace

Zero coverage.That is 100% no gas or wrong gas.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Lis2323



Reply:

Originally Posted by 52 Ford



Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk
Reply:Did you try calling customer service ? Help is included with the machine, and I have always found them helpful. They might want to sell you a new bottle of argon, but that might not be a bad thing.Looked at the pictures :

Looks like the tip is out a little far, notice the oxidation past the yellow arrow.

The flow looks a little low for that size cup. How far away is you're tungsten from the work? Try holding the tungsten about as close to the work as you can without touching, and make a spot weld pointing the tungsten straight down. it should make a shiny spot weld with little or no heat discoloration. good luckAirco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square waveMiller Synchrowave 180 sdMiller Econo Twin HFLincoln 210 MPDayton 225 ac/dcVictor torchesSnap-On YA-212Lotos Cut60DPrimeweld 225 ac/dcPrimeweld mig180Miller AEAD-200
Reply:It takes time and practice. There are books 📚 that help.There is YouTube that may help. Dave

Originally Posted by costapowicz

Hi guy. I'm a novice TIG welder and started last year and have been practicing on and off mostly on steel and a little on aluminum and stainless. For the last 6 months, I cannot for the life of me get a clean arc going, meaning that when I start an arc, I get sparks of metal flying all over the place and the workpiece has a big brown **** stain on it. It's as though I'm welding with no argon but I know I have argon because it's a huge brand new bottle that worked fine at first.I'll describe my setup and what I've tried so far. I have a PRIMEWELD TIG225X with a CK Worldwide CK17  flex torch, Every consumable I use is CK Worldwide. I've tried Furick cups (sizes 10 and 12) used with 3/32 tungsten. I have literally every type of tungsten there is including blue, purple, pink, Lazer green, gray, red, and maybe some I might be forgetting.I tried gas lens configurations with friction collets and standard configurations with no gas lenses. I used an angle grinder to polish metal that showed signs of oxidation and then cleaned them in acetone. I cleaned the filler rod with acetone. There's no air circulation because it's in an enclosed garage so there's no chance of argon being blown away. All my tungstens are sharpened to a point with no oxidation with a slightly blunt tip as was suggested by Miller.I removed and re-tightened all hoses going from the gas tank to the machine and ground and DINSE connector on the front.I have officially reached the point where I don't know what I can try next and am about ready to find a place to fire sale all this stuff off to. I've spent hundreds on consumables of all different shapes and sizes and nothing I do is making a lick of difference.I figured a final hail Mary by seeking help on Reddit and welding forums might give me something to try that I may have missed. I don't care about feeling stupid if it was something simple just so long as I can actually practice welding again.Can anyone think of anything I missed?
Reply:

Originally Posted by albrightree

Did you try calling customer service ? Help is included with the machine, and I have always found them helpful. They might want to sell you a new bottle of argon, but that might not be a bad thing.Looked at the pictures :

Looks like the tip is out a little far, notice the oxidation past the yellow arrow.

The flow looks a little low for that size cup. How far away is you're tungsten from the work? Try holding the tungsten about as close to the work as you can without touching, and make a spot weld pointing the tungsten straight down. it should make a shiny spot weld with little or no heat discoloration. good luck

Originally Posted by N55_6MT

I agree, too much stickout with not enough flow. With a collet, general rule is 1x the cup size at the most, so for a #6 that would be 3/8" of stickout and you should try be way under this if you can. If your tungsten is only discoloring past the end of the cup then you've got good enough gas coverage inside the cup but not enough at the tip and at the work.