Heavy welding parameters, wire, gas suggestions needed.

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We are welding an engineered beam, and having some penetration issues at the toes of the weld. The penetration is good if we are perfectly centered, but if the bar stock is bowed at all, like 1/8", it will not penetrate the far side. It appears that the arc fails to burn through the mill scale. I would like to try .052" wire but I don't want to buy a drum if it will make our problem worse. Base material, 3/4" HR bar Wire ER70S6 generic wire in a drum, .045 diameter. 1F position, gun vertical 0Deg.Wire speed, 475 IPM.Volts, 35.2Gas, 90 AR/10 CO2Amps, 400 +/- 10This is on our CNC machine. When we were still hand welding these we tried some Dual shield but we weren't too impressed with the mess it makes, smoke and slag. Is there any other options without spending big$?



Last edited by B&M Welding Inc; 4 Weeks Ago at 01:10 PM.Reason: Added more images
Reply:If you want to weld through mill scale 70s6 is not your friend. I think for this application a metal cored wire such as Hobart fabcor 86r would be a good option. you should be able to increase travel speed with it as well. you could try removing the millscale but I would guess you want to avoid that.
Reply:

Originally Posted by bigd250

If you want to weld through mill scale 70s6 is not your friend. I think for this application a metal cored wire such as Hobart fabcor 86r would be a good option. you should be able to increase travel speed with it as well. you could try removing the millscale but I would guess you want to avoid that.
Reply:There are different flavors of the solid wire also but as they say at the front of the book, using as big a rod as you can reduces cost.  Not sure why I would be scared of using a larger wire if the machine will burn it.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:

Originally Posted by Sberry

There are different flavors of the solid wire also but as they say at the front of the book, using as big a rod as you can reduces cost.  Not sure why I would be scared of using a larger wire if the machine will burn it.
Reply:I just recently bought some spools of 86r. it was $4.60 per pound. if you're buying in drums it should be less than that. if you are using 1.00 dollar per pound 70s6 mig wire, that maybe part of the problem. it's usually cheap for a reason. finding a solid wire with more deoxidizers may fix the problem as well. with .045 70s6 wire running 475 Ipm you are around 12lbs per hour deposition rate. with  .045 86r you could get near 20lbs per hour 24lbs with 1/16" close to doubling your productivity. select arc also has a wire they claim to be a replacement for 86r it's Select 70C-6.  I have no experience with that particular wire, I have had good results with hardfacing wire from them.
Reply:

Originally Posted by bigd250

I just recently bought some spools of 86r. it was $4.60 per pound. if you're buying in drums it should be less than that. if you are using 1.00 dollar per pound 70s6 mig wire, that maybe part of the problem. it's usually cheap for a reason. finding a solid wire with more deoxidizers may fix the problem as well. with .045 70s6 wire running 475 Ipm you are around 12lbs per hour deposition rate. with  .045 86r you could get near 20lbs per hour 24lbs with 1/16" close to doubling your productivity. select arc also has a wire they claim to be a replacement for 86r it's Select 70C-6.  I have no experience with that particular wire, I have had good results with hardfacing wire from them.
Reply:I thought I had posted this, but you might want to check out Kiswel USA.  They have a wire manufacturing plant in Florence, KY.  Maybe they have something that meets your needs.  FabCor 86R is classified as E70C-6M H4, so perhaps they have a matching wire.  I've ran their 035 & 045 metal-core KX-706M in smaller spools on a couple small projects here and there and it runs well IMO.  I don't have any ¾" steel to run any tests with the wire, but I have scrap ½" thick if you need any small samples.  Or you can send some ¾" thick slivers and I can hand-weld and then cut-polish-etch (sorry no CNC/robotic welding here

)Last edited by Oscar; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:06 PM.

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Reply:These are some major wire producers:   Kiswell(korean) Hyundai(korean), Kobelco(japanese), Select Alloy(Usa?), Lincoln, Hobart, ESAB have plants in the US. I've seen Select Allioy in the $5/lb price for a 60lb reelof .045"  E70C-6M . I have used select alloy stainless wires(gas shielded) and found them to be a quality wire. I have never used their  E70C-6M wire.My guess on the cut and etch is that it is inconsistent all along the weld. If you were to make several cuts on one weld, you would see lots of variation in the penetration. I think you would need the deoxidizers to make a consistent weld. The gains in efficiency , and penetration might pay for the difference in the wire cost. I believe the  E70C-6M wire is really made for what you're doing, high speed, high amperage, robotic welding without removing mill scale. Let us know how it works out.Like the Pictures.RegardsAirco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square waveMiller Synchrowave 180 sdMiller Econo Twin HFLincoln 210 MPDayton 225 ac/dcVictor torchesSnap-On YA-212Lotos Cut60DPrimeweld 225 ac/dcPrimeweld mig180Miller AEAD-200
Reply:

Originally Posted by albrightree

These are some major wire producers:   Kiswell(korean) Hyundai(korean), Kobelco(japanese), Select Alloy(Usa?), Lincoln, Hobart, ESAB have plants in the US. I've seen Select Allioy in the $5/lb price for a 60lb reelof .045"  E70C-6M . I have used select alloy stainless wires(gas shielded) and found them to be a quality wire. I have never used their  E70C-6M wire.My guess on the cut and etch is that it is inconsistent all along the weld. If you were to make several cuts on one weld, you would see lots of variation in the penetration. I think you would need the deoxidizers to make a consistent weld. The gains in efficiency , and penetration might pay for the difference in the wire cost. I believe the  E70C-6M wire is really made for what you're doing, high speed, high amperage, robotic welding without removing mill scale. Let us know how it works out.Like the Pictures.Regards