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I'm attempting to run some .045 Lincoln Outershield 71 Elite and it's driving my crazy. I've had similar problems with this wire before and the same with ESAB Dual Shield II 70 Ultra.Welding on a Millermatic 252 w/ a Bernard Q300 gun.25V @ 350 IPMGas C25 @ 37 CFHStickout approx. 3/4" (I'm not great at keeping that consistent but am trying)Metal wire wheeled or ground clean.Here's my first weld on this project, vertical up, pretty close to 90 degrees, maybe a slight upward angle, not my best weld but no porosity:
I made some other welds, was getting some porosity but not enough to make me quit, but got the gun hot enough I stopped to let it cool off.These are the next 2 vertical up welds i made, same setup, just about 30 mins later:
I've had this problem w/ fillet welds in the past, never going vertical up. I've ground welds like these out in the past and the porosity goes all the way to the root.In the past, I've tried playing with voltage/speed settings, changing CFH anywhere from 30-50, change my angle, grind metal completely clean instead of just wire brush, etc with very little success.I don't believe it to be an issue with my gas because I never have a problem w/ hard wire. Was just using hardwire with this bottle before I threw the 71 Elite in it and had 0 problems.I have the same problems whether I'm using the stock mig gun or the Q300.I love these wires when they work for me but this intermittent porosity is going to force me to stop using them.What am I doing wrong?!?Any help/ideas would be greatly appreciated, thanks.Last edited by ccs; 15 Hours Ago at 12:23 PM.Millermatic 2521965 SA-200 (burns oil)1975 Miller 55g (leaks oil)
Reply:Is this a brand new roll that you yourself opened? If not, how old is the wire and where was it stored? What is your stickout aka contact tip to work distance ?
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Reply:It's not a new roll, it's several years old. I had problems with both of the rolls (the 71 Elite and the II 70 Ultra since they were new though). It's been stored in a cabinet in my shop. We're generally quite low humidity here in Wyoming. Forgot to list my stickout, I'm trying to maintain around 3/4" stickout. Also forgot to mention it's .045Thanks for the reply.Millermatic 2521965 SA-200 (burns oil)1975 Miller 55g (leaks oil)
Reply:Can you move over an inch and lay a bead in a flat part of the same material? See if that is better? Most of my trouble with porosity in dual shield is from impurities in the joint. Im wondering if there could be just enough crap in that lap joint thats boiling out to give you trouble. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:So I grabbed a piece of scrap and wire wheeled it a little.Here's a quick bead in flat position:
And here's another vertical up in the corner of the I-Beam:
The joint in question looks? quite clean, but I've wondered the same thing. In the past, I ground out some welds like these and rewelded with the same result. I tried that on the same weld at least 3 times before I gave up. Do you think the impurities would still be there after that many tries? I thought surely I would have burned them out by then which made me think maybe it wasn't impurites? That particular joint was new/clean cut 1" plate welded to used but ground clean channel.Last edited by ccs; 14 Hours Ago at 12:55 PM.Millermatic 2521965 SA-200 (burns oil)1975 Miller 55g (leaks oil)
Reply:Is C25 the recommended gas for this wire?Some dual shields use 100% CO2. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by danike110
Is C25 the recommended gas for this wire?Some dual shields use 100% CO2. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:I have some E81 dual shield and it calls for 40-45 cfh. Which sounds like a lot. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by danike110
I have some E81 dual shield and it calls for 40-45 cfh. Which sounds like a lot. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Looks like no gas What type gas are using and cfh?Dave
Originally Posted by ccs
I'm attempting to run some .045 Lincoln Outershield 71 Elite and it's driving my crazy. I've had similar problems with this wire before and the same with ESAB Dual Shield II 70 Ultra.Welding on a Millermatic 252 w/ a Bernard Q300 gun.25V @ 350 IPMGas C25 @ 37 CFHStickout approx. 3/4" (I'm not great at keeping that consistent but am trying)Metal wire wheeled or ground clean.Here's my first weld on this project, vertical up, pretty close to 90 degrees, maybe a slight upward angle, not my best weld but no porosity:
I made some other welds, was getting some porosity but not enough to make me quit, but got the gun hot enough I stopped to let it cool off.These are the next 2 vertical up welds i made, same setup, just about 30 mins later:
I've had this problem w/ fillet welds in the past, never going vertical up. I've ground welds like these out in the past and the porosity goes all the way to the root.In the past, I've tried playing with voltage/speed settings, changing CFH anywhere from 30-50, change my angle, grind metal completely clean instead of just wire brush, etc with very little success.I don't believe it to be an issue with my gas because I never have a problem w/ hard wire. Was just using hardwire with this bottle before I threw the 71 Elite in it and had 0 problems.I have the same problems whether I'm using the stock mig gun or the Q300.I love these wires when they work for me but this intermittent porosity is going to force me to stop using them.What am I doing wrong?!?Any help/ideas would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
Reply:I thought 71 Elite required lower gas flow than some others, but I just found the spec again and it's 40-50 CFH. Maybe I'll try turning it up and try that weld again though I have my doubts as I've tried all the way up to 50 before and I don't think it changed much for me.It seems like it happens mostly with fillet welds, I have no idea why?Thanks guys.Millermatic 2521965 SA-200 (burns oil)1975 Miller 55g (leaks oil)
Reply:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
Looks like no gas What type gas are using and cfh?Dave
Reply:Ok thank you. You point problem. Most time you need 50 cfh and I use CO2 as work better back 1980 and never used anything else since. I would avoid any wire that need some other than CO2 gas. Dave
Originally Posted by Lis2323
Reply:The other part put black paper over the voltage meter you read the meter with hood on. Makes life simpler. Dave
Originally Posted by ccs
I thought 71 Elite required lower gas flow than some others, but I just found the spec again and it's 40-50 CFH. Maybe I'll try turning it up and try that weld again though I have my doubts as I've tried all the way up to 50 before and I don't think it changed much for me.It seems like it happens mostly with fillet welds, I have no idea why?Thanks guys.
Reply:I've had similar problems with 71M and 100% CO2. It was corrected by increasing the gas flow.Miller Trailblazer Pro 350DMiller Suitcase MIGMiller Spectrum 2050Miller Syncrowave 250DXLincoln 210MP
Reply:The dual shields are normally designed to drag the bead but run ok if you don't when in position but vertical up will be more straight in or a slight push and will need more gas. 35-40 and a little less stick out. Wouldn't hurt to increase the nozzle opening size either.Thermal Arc 320SP ( Lorch )Cobra PythonsThermal Arc 300 AC/DC ( Sanrex )ESAB 301i AC/DC ( Lorch )Thermal Arc 161STL ( WTL )Thermal Arc 190S ( Sanrex )Cut Master 82, 42. Cut45 ( WTL )Victor Gas Apps.Boxes and boxes of welding crap.
Reply:Trying to think about this a little, I keep walking past the vertical weld I made on the piece of scrap earlier. That's not a real different setup than the filet weld that is full of holes. If my issue was gas flow, shouldn't they both be bad?Millermatic 2521965 SA-200 (burns oil)1975 Miller 55g (leaks oil)
Reply:
Originally Posted by scsmith42
I've had similar problems with 71M and 100% CO2. It was corrected by increasing the gas flow.
Reply:Those aren't worm tracks. Worm tracks can be fixed by lowering the voltage, but that's not the situation here. This looks like lack of gas coverage. Are you welding outdoors? It really looks like your shielding gas is blowing away. Turn up the gas and use a wind block if there's too much air current/wind/breeze
Reply:It's inside my shop, zero air current.Millermatic 2521965 SA-200 (burns oil)1975 Miller 55g (leaks oil)
Reply:
Originally Posted by ccs
Were those problems intermittent or constant out of curiosity? Thanks
Reply:Fluxcore needs more gas than solid wire. Fluxcore is faster than any other command type of welding Sorry about post did prof read My last post should said .The other part put black paper over the voltage meter you can not read the meter with hood on. Makes life simpler..
Reply:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
Fluxcore needs more gas than solid wire. Fluxcore is faster than any other command type of welding Sorry about post did prof read My last post should said .Most try to set the weld voltage by meter on welder. The charts take voltage reading at the tip and weld. Dave
Reply:Looks great.Dave
Originally Posted by cornchip
i bought a roll of dual sheild to mess around with and dont recall using a alot of gas flow. certainly not even close to 50cfh. probly like 20 or so. my first ever dual shield looked fine from what i could tell
Reply:I had trouble running the same wire (I believe) a month or two ago, one of my issues was gas leaking at the oring where the euro torch connected to the machine, if you have a handheld flowmeter, check the actual gas flow at the nozzle, I almost guarantee its not the same as what's showing in your tank flowmeter Sent from my fab shop using a mig welder and a grinder
http://www.philswelding.comThe ball will stay floating if u have a leak. Sometimes my gas line gets in a kink so you could check over youre gas line. And I’ve had cups go bad and get gas problems like that so replace the cup
Reply:So I went out and ground out the worst of those 2 welds:
I turned the gas up to 45 CFH and started welding again and partway up I noticed my stickout was a lot more than I thought it was so I tightened it up.I'm guessing that long stickout led to the small amount of porosity in this weld, it's about the right spot.
I got myself in a better position to see my stickout and welded the rest of the joint:
So I'm thinking the issue was likely not enough gas flow coupled with a bad job of holding the proper stickout, just making the problem worse. Sound reasonable to you guys?You guys hit the nail on the head, lack of gas coverage. I fight to keep myself from getting tight on the metal as I would for hardwire, I guess I was way overdoing it.Thanks again for all your help!Millermatic 2521965 SA-200 (burns oil)1975 Miller 55g (leaks oil)
Reply:Try 1/2" stickout. Are use a cup for fluxcore or mig? Dave
Originally Posted by ccs
So I went out and ground out the worst of those 2 welds:
I turned the gas up to 45 CFH and started welding again and partway up I noticed my stickout was a lot more than I thought it was so I tightened it up.I'm guessing that long stickout led to the small amount of porosity in this weld, it's about the right spot.
I got myself in a better position to see my stickout and welded the rest of the joint:
So I'm thinking the issue was likely not enough gas flow coupled with a bad job of holding the proper stickout, just making the problem worse. Sound reasonable to you guys?You guys hit the nail on the head, lack of gas coverage. I fight to keep myself from getting tight on the metal as I would for hardwire, I guess I was way overdoing it.Thanks again for all your help!
Reply:You can make a dual shield weld with almost no gas. The weld rubs hotter with lack of gas and looks brighter in the mask.
Reply:
Originally Posted by motolife313
The ball will stay floating if u have a leak. Sometimes my gas line gets in a kink so you could check over youre gas line. And Ive had cups go bad and get gas problems like that so replace the cup
Reply:Valve in the wire feeder machine?
Reply:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
Try 1/2" stickout. Are use a cup for fluxcore or mig? Dave
Reply:It's actually just 4.5" pipe, i didn't take off all of the millscale though. You may be right though, dunno. I thought dual shield was supposed to be good at burning out impurities vs hardwire. Doesn't seem so though, I could be welding directly on paint w/ hardwire and not get a small fraction of the porosity as I got on these welds.Millermatic 2521965 SA-200 (burns oil)1975 Miller 55g (leaks oil)
Reply:Dual shield does shielding gas or you get porosity. They make cups for Dual shield wire they longer than solid wire cups as you need a longer stick out for flux to work. But same time you still need shielding gas . Dave
Originally Posted by ccs
It's actually just 4.5" pipe, i didn't take off all of the millscale though. You may be right though, dunno. I thought dual shield was supposed to be good at burning out impurities vs hardwire. Doesn't seem so though, I could be welding directly on paint w/ hardwire and not get a small fraction of the porosity as I got on these welds. |
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发表于 2022-8-8 15:51:37