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Ok, so this is my 2nd post, my first being the obligatory introduction post. I just purchased my first welder which is a HF OmniPro 220. I was a little disappointed to learn that my garage outlets are on 15 amp breakers so I can't really use them even for 120v. The good news is that one of my best friends is a professional electrician. He said he could wire me up for 30amp 120 and 50amp 240.However, the way my house was built my breaker box is on the opposite side of the house from my garage, and there is no accessible crawl space to make running the wire easy. I would have to knock holes in my drywall and then pay to have that repaired.So instead I'm thinking of just placing the 2 new outlets below the breaker box and run an extension cord from there. To reach everywhere I might want to use the welder on my property, I'm looking at a 125' cord. I'm thinking 6 guage (6/3 SEOOW) for that length. My electrician friend seems to think I'd be okay with that given the input amp draw on the machine. What do you all think?Last edited by dbrent; 3 Days Ago at 02:05 AM.
Reply:It will work, wait till you price a 6. In the end you have no use foir a 6 cord and you still dont have a real wire. Some careful planning can save a lot of drywall work and small isnt bad to fix,,, I would say if a gy has trouble with a drywall patch tghen I got to wonder if he is cut out for a welder? Second,,, yes,,, if will be fine with the cord but,,,, if a guy "thinks" this will be alright I am curious as to what type of electrician he is? Not everyone gets a grip on the nature of a welder circuit and since a guy needs both voltages this is a place to carefully consider the options and make this a real asset and improvement instead of a pile of heavy cord.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:3rd ly,,, this machine would probably run on 10 at that distance. I am not familiar with omni pro but if it is DVI it will. It will run 100 ft of 12 easy, if I was going 125 would want a 10 which is really better anyway, the cord is a bit more robust and would work on 50A units in the future.Last edited by Sberry; 2 Days Ago at 07:46 AM.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:6 SOOW will work no problem, but it is overkill. The machine draws 26 amps on 240 volts at max output with a 25% duty cycle. NEC article 630 regulates the sizing of cables for a dedicated welder circuit. If I am reading it correctly you could get by with 12 gauge conductors at that distance, 14 gauge at shorter distances. A lot of people make this mistake, including professional/licensed electricians sometimes. The normal code for sizing a circuit doesn't apply if the circuit is dedicated to a welder. IN that case you can size down the wire size and size up the breaker, based on a formula in NEC 630 that is based on the duty cycle of the welder.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Think about other ways,,, I looked while having a coffee,,, I wouldnt be nuts about running this cable without upsize in attic in Phoenix, you can go underground and around, can do a combination but tat this distance and since you do not have 20A my choice in todays world would be a 3 conductor 4 wire cable or even better piped 10 and put it to a 6 space panel. If you are wanting to size uyp and have air on demand another size up or go to aluminum which is what I would do but,,, we do this type of install all the time.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:"and there is no accessible crawl space"You have no attic space?
Reply:Louie,,, you sure we aint related? I can remember starting out,,, worried to death about size and spent a lot oif time toting and hooking monster wire 2x as big as I need. But what I like about how you describe this,,,, is you start with the legal requirements and step up as needed or practical instead of starting at the top down. I am kind of a 10 fan for terminations and just a touch of future proof but it will serve a buzzer which was always a benchmark and 2 sizes bigger than the new machines need but,,,if its a cable,,, there goes a size which still throws us well over the top. 2ndly,,, I have actually metered the machines and some cords, read the manuals and the code that applies and havce quite a little direct experience with this. I ran a few buzzers with 10 cable to the pole and never burn one up and ran them wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy beyond the listed duty cycle.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:In fact I tried a couple times,,, or certainly didnt care,,, to burn up a welder or 2 back in the day and tired out before it happened and ran whole handfuls of 14 and 18 even in hot weather, mostly in the hot. Aint no way no how a guy in the burbs could even find enough to weld to even try that, tanker trucks or big trailers etc. Built up a set of crusher jaws with one. Ha Box of rods, 1 machine and 2 cases of beer my helper was handing over.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:If running new line I would run a 50 amp 240 volt 4 wire.It will save money 💰 in long time.It same labor as running a 120volt 20 amp just larger wire just a 4 wire 6 gauge wire. Cheep upgrade as you do more work.Dave
Originally Posted by dbrent
Ok, so this is my 2nd post, my first being the obligatory introduction post. I just purchased my first welder which is a HF OmniPro 220. I was a little disappointed to learn that my garage outlets are on 15 amp breakers so I can't really use them even for 120v. The good news is that one of my best friends is a professional electrician. He said he could wire me up for 30amp 120 and 50amp 240.However, the way my house was built my breaker box is on the opposite side of the house from my garage, and there is no accessible crawl space to make running the wire easy. I would have to knock holes in my drywall and then pay to have that repaired.So instead I'm thinking of just placing the 2 new outlets below the breaker box and run an extension cord from there. To reach everywhere I might want to use the welder on my property, I'm looking at a 125' cord. I'm thinking 6 guage (6/3 SEOOW) for that length. My electrician friend seems to think I'd be okay with that given the input amp draw on the machine. What do you all think?
Reply:The OP mentioned being able to "reach anywhere on the property" so, I assume that means outside also,,I was reading a Facebook page about installing a heat pump,, the outside unit now, per code, needs a GFCI breaker in case some kid runs into it on a bicycle.Surely, the BIG extension cord needs GFCI protection,,,
Reply:Only piece I owned that outright failed was a Linc Pro Cut 60. I bought the thing thinking it was heavy duty and had so many off the shelf parts we could deal with it but they had already slid in some boards with logic on them and sheet,,,, I still need to get the schematic and do a work around. I am about sure its go0t something to do with that tip stuff that always was a pain in the arse and very poorly designed to start with. I think I come up withb a welding wire wrap fix for it ion about the first month I had it.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:First of all thank you for the replies... I'll address a few comments here:
Originally Posted by Sberry
Some careful planning can save a lot of drywall work and small isn't bad to fix. I would say if a guy has trouble with a drywall patch then I got to wonder if he is cut out for a welder?
Reply:
Originally Posted by SweetMK
The OP mentioned being able to "reach anywhere on the property" so, I assume that means outside also,,I was reading a Facebook page about installing a heat pump,, the outside unit now, per code, needs a GFCI breaker in case some kid runs into it on a bicycle.Surely, the BIG extension cord needs GFCI protection,,,
Reply:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
If running new line I would run a 50 amp 240 volt 4 wire.It will save money in long time.It same labor as running a 120volt 20 amp just larger wire just a 4 wire 6 gauge wire. Cheep upgrade as you do more work.Dave
Reply:
Originally Posted by Louie1961
6 SOOW will work no problem, but it is overkill. The machine draws 26 amps on 240 volts at max output with a 25% duty cycle. NEC article 630 regulates the sizing of cables for a dedicated welder circuit. If I am reading it correctly you could get by with 12 gauge conductors at that distance, 14 gauge at shorter distances. A lot of people make this mistake, including professional/licensed electricians sometimes. The normal code for sizing a circuit doesn't apply if the circuit is dedicated to a welder. IN that case you can size down the wire size and size up the breaker, based on a formula in NEC 630 that is based on the duty cycle of the welder.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Sberry
Think about other ways,,, I looked while having a coffee,,, I wouldnt be nuts about running this cable without upsize in attic in Phoenix, you can go underground and around, can do a combination but tat this distance and since you do not have 20A my choice in todays world would be a 3 conductor 4 wire cable or even better piped 10 and put it to a 6 space panel. If you are wanting to size uyp and have air on demand another size up or go to aluminum which is what I would do but,,, we do this type of install all the time.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Willie B
I just ran a #2 feeder for my son 100 miles away. Stupid me! I installed an 8 circuit panel. Within a week he outgrew the 8 circuit. Had to change it to a 12 circuit.Like most development houses, he has a finished basement, but the ceiling is suspended.
Reply:
Originally Posted by dbrent
Thank you for this information Louie! I'm going to read up on this. The only thing I will say is that I don't want to size my connection as if this is the last or only welder I will ever own which is why I was oversizing... but yeah, maybe I went a little too oversized.
Reply:a 6 awg extension cord at 100+ feet is going to be very expensive, and a complete hassle to handle. Thicker wire is much more difficult to pull/run than thinner wire. Running wire through conduit outside of the house is sometimes the only viable option, the upside of this is you can usually get a few outdoor outlet locations.If you KNOW you'll ONLY run said welder on the circuit for the rest of your life (or devices the same power or less)you will be fine with a smaller gauge (higher number) wire, 10 or even 12. ***IMO at this gauge and point you might as well just wire a 30 amp receptacle under the main breaker panel and use an extension cord*** Use cragslist/offerup or similar to find cheap, new 10 awg cords, or harbor freight.If you plan to run more (plasma cutter, air compressor, electric vehicle charging port) run the full 6 awg 50 amp circuit (fine for 125').If you're going through the cost and trouble of running wire, might as well do it *Extra* right.Yes it is NEC compliant to wire DEDICATED circuit (your machine will have a semi unique amperage draw and duty cycle, any machines that meet or are less than will also be safe (legal) on this circuit) with smaller gauge wire, but IMO it is often not the best advice for a long, already expensive, already work heavy installation/wire pull.Matching drywall texture so it is hidden to everyone else is not very difficult! Practice the brush technique -slinging/flicking mud off the bristles of a stiff brush until the blobs are about the size you want, and then "knock down" the blobs with a spatula to match the general size of surrounding texture blobs. Do the same for "pop corn" finishes with no knock down.Smaller drywall patches in general are EXTREMELY common and easy to repair - everyone should know the basics. You can use "patch kits" if you really just can't get it, but drywall, mud, and paper are very easy to work with. Remember - YOU will ALWAYS be able to tell where the patch is no matter how well it is matched, and even if you do it so well it is invisible to everyone else (just the nature of the game).Last edited by SlowBlues; 2 Days Ago at 03:07 PM.
Reply:brent,if you just need "temp power" until you decide to put permanent power in the ol' geerage - have yer sparky drop in the outlets and use an extension cord. But what a couple people have mentioned in this thread is that if yer gonna have to dig a trench, put in a Sub Panel in the garage.Then from the sub panel you can run a dedicated welder receptacle/circuit and a couple of 20amp circuits.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:That is really true. I might or would save on materials but no matter what the diy save, get a bud to help approach is well worth the time and investment. If I was doing that and had some free 6,,, which I might but 50 or 60 with modern service and welder leaves enough for air on demand for plasma cutting mainly. A lot of professionals are familiar with the term "Green Acres" which means one thing at a time. I know a couple guys do it instinctively but even in size shop most loads with 1 or 2 men very similar to a modern kitchen in nature. Sundown of past live in a nice place and even 20 years ago now had all 30A equipment and lived with spec built 30 circuit. I can instinctively not strike an arc while the comp is running in a small garage, dont got to run it all at once. So,,, absolutely due to distance and nature of the load would not ruin 2 circuits but agree with the Dave would run 1. How and how good is another matter, once this is designed a bit different cant derate wire. If I was acting as a salesman in some sense would offer to upsize the wire due to the labor aspect and offer the option,,,,, as a circuit designer lets say if it included a calculation to meet real world load for this type of guy we would install number 10 wire with 30.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I agree with the extra circuit concept here since there are not any good tool circuits. Remember, cant downsize wire from panel to panel but from panel to a welder outlet. I usually use 2 alum wire and a 60 to nother panel. lets a guyy have a couple 240 and a couple 120. You can put 40 spaces on the end of the wire but 6 space panel is really cheap and they make 8 just for these type of installs, within the same structure. This also gives local control over these circuits and that is never a bad thing. The big deal is the wire in place. can always add more spaces.Last edited by Sberry; 2 Days Ago at 03:05 PM.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:Louie, are you sure its 10/80 I think using breaker is 60.Last edited by Sberry; 2 Days Ago at 03:18 PM.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:depends on the type of breaker Cary, 60 for a slow blow breaker, 80 for a "regular" breaker.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:The modern breakers are now all slow blow versions. I believe the conductor size for 60 is limited to 10 as well as the ground wire. A bit of that language is sort of,,,,, while not technically outdated and a hold over from fuses and earlier breakers. Seems we/I went over this on one of the earlier fussy butt code and inspectors forums. The language might remain so old circuits can be used. The same type hold over as the 3 wire dryer or range. But,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, that all has been a while since I crack the book and really needed it splained to me as I recall.Last edited by Sberry; 2 Days Ago at 04:48 PM.www.urkafarms.comThe first ones they changed the trip curve on were labeled HAVC I believe, not sure new ones are marked or now e just assume new are that way, They make 1 that is 2x I believe for problem cases. But,,,, again, just generalization and not meant to be specific as a disclaimer for net police.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:
Originally Posted by Broccoli1
100 mile run? dat's a long feeder
Reply:
Originally Posted by Willie B
I wish I could be funny like you.
Reply:Hahaha!Miller Multimatic 255 |
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发表于 2022-6-16 15:51:54