|
|
So, aside from being a skill that I'm likely to use on the farm, I work for a company that does some food grade conveyor repair and remodel. Typically the end shaft bearing surfaces are toast, and the solution has been to have new shafts machined, with the accompanying wait time, which sometimes plays heck with scheduling. I would like to repair them and then turn down to original OD. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm concerned about warpage if I use rod and weld paralell vs having a positioner and going around the piece. Looking for some ideas, tricks that could help me out. Thanks ahead of time.Being poor is the most expensive thing there is
Reply:My experience is limited.A couple I have done were built up, then checked with a dial indicator in a lathe. It takes a lot of cycles of heating to get it straight. Heat with gas torch on the side outside the bend.All this heat will soften the steel.One was at the upper end of a conveyor where the drive machine belts to it. That was broken off & it was a temporary repair. Took a long time to get it straight, but it worked.I've watched a You Tube video where A Bomb spray welds a shaft at speed in a lathe to build it up. I don't remember if he heat treated it after.Last edited by Willie B; 4 Days Ago at 07:36 AM.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Might be easier to turn shaft down to round make a sleeve shrink fit it on turn it to fit bearing Watched a friend of mine do it a lot .
Reply:I've done quite a few in 1018 or 1045. You mentioned food grade so I'm assuming some grade of SS. I've always done longitudinal beads, 180 degrees apart till built up. Stainless is an entirely different animal, much more prone to distortion. At the end of the day tho even if it pulls some the machining should true it up.
Reply:Most like 304 stainless with UHMS plastic bearing. I used 308 wire food grade for welding and shaft build up.Dave
Originally Posted by snoopdogg
So, aside from being a skill that I'm likely to use on the farm, I work for a company that does some food grade conveyor repair and remodel. Typically the end shaft bearing surfaces are toast, and the solution has been to have new shafts machined, with the accompanying wait time, which sometimes plays heck with scheduling. I would like to repair them and then turn down to original OD. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm concerned about warpage if I use rod and weld paralell vs having a positioner and going around the piece. Looking for some ideas, tricks that could help me out. Thanks ahead of time.
Reply:
Originally Posted by snoopdogg
So, aside from being a skill that I'm likely to use on the farm, I work for a company that does some food grade conveyor repair and remodel. Typically the end shaft bearing surfaces are toast, and the solution has been to have new shafts machined, with the accompanying wait time, which sometimes plays heck with scheduling. I would like to repair them and then turn down to original OD. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm concerned about warpage if I use rod and weld paralell vs having a positioner and going around the piece. Looking for some ideas, tricks that could help me out. Thanks ahead of time.
Reply:Offhand, as others have recommended I would think that turning the shaft down slightly, installing a sleeve and then machining to tolerance would be your best option. Sleeve could be installed with either loctite or brazing.Another option is the spray buildup that Willie B referenced.A third option would be to use a composite to build up the shaft, and then remachine it. There are products that are made in Texas for building up hydraulic spool valves, and they work quite well I'm told.Miller Trailblazer Pro 350DMiller Suitcase MIGMiller Spectrum 2050Miller Syncrowave 250DXLincoln 210MP
Reply:Offhand, as others have recommended I would think that turning the shaft down slightly, installing a sleeve and then machining to tolerance would be your best option. Sleeve could be installed with either loctite or brazing.Another option is the spray buildup that Willie B referenced.A third option would be to use a composite to build up the shaft, and then remachine it. There are products that are made in Texas for building up hydraulic spool valves, and they work quite well I'm told.Miller Trailblazer Pro 350DMiller Suitcase MIGMiller Spectrum 2050Miller Syncrowave 250DXLincoln 210MP
Reply:The problem with sleeving, is the bossman doesn't want stocked parts in the overhead, I know, but it is what it is. Not gonna get into bean counter policy, but sleeves would likely be as much a time lapse as new shafts.Being poor is the most expensive thing there is
Reply:Depending on how chewed up the shafts are, powdered metal spray welding might be a good way to repair them. You use a special oxy-acetylene torch that sprays powdered metal onto the workpiece to build up the surface. I've never used one personally, but I've seen people use them and they're very impressive. You can use do this with the part set up in your lathe without hurting the lathe, where arc welding would probably be better done in a rotary weld positioner. The exact powered metal blend you use depends on the application and base material. https://www.castolin.com/en-US/produ...yn-system-2000Here's a video of Adam Booth (abom79) trying out the Terodyn 2000.Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by snoopdogg
The problem with sleeving, is the bossman doesn't want stocked parts in the overhead, I know, but it is what it is. Not gonna get into bean counter policy, but sleeves would likely be as much a time lapse as new shafts.
Reply:
Originally Posted by snoopdogg
The problem with sleeving, is the bossman doesn't want stocked parts in the overhead, I know, but it is what it is. Not gonna get into bean counter policy, but sleeves would likely be as much a time lapse as new shafts.
Reply:Our MILL in the mine here used TRUNNIONS that ran on Babbitt sleeve bearings, the trunnion shafts would typically be worn severely, they would come into the machine shop where they were degreased, turned smooth and sent to the welding shop where they were mounted in an OLD lathe equipped with a submerged arc wire feeder, the shaft was built up with sufficient weld metal to allow it to be returned to the machine shop to turn the shaft and often to retire the roller, there were never any problems with shaft warpage. submerged arc probably isn't available to you, but might be worth investigating.NRA LIFE MEMBERUNITWELD 175 AMP 3 IN1 DCMIDSTATES 300 AMP AC MACHINELET'S GO BRANDON!"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
Reply:A lot would depend on the diameter and length of the rolls along with how complex and or size of the shaft. Along with that of coarse is size of the lathe to do said machining. If it's a larger shaft and you have the size of lathe to handle it, build up is a good option. Smaller shorter shafts or rolls too big too handle , shaft replacement is probably going to be a better option. Spray buildup could be a decent option if the shaft in question isn't in a situation where lots of impact and other forces are an issue. Reason I say this is that spray buildup isn't really a true " weld" as it isn't really made one with the base metal.
Reply:The trouble with building up the shaft is welding time adds up fast and no matter how you do it machining a built up shaft it is always hard and it takes more time build one or two up machine them down figure out what you have in it your gonna be surprised it takes longer then you think your gonna find out that without proper procedures and post welding controlled cooling your gonna have problems with cracking
Reply:As machine to size sometimes it flakes off.I found weld build up works the best.Dave
Originally Posted by 52 Ford
Depending on how chewed up the shafts are, powdered metal spray welding might be a good way to repair them. You use a special oxy-acetylene torch that sprays powdered metal onto the workpiece to build up the surface. I've never used one personally, but I've seen people use them and they're very impressive. You can use do this with the part set up in your lathe without hurting the lathe, where arc welding would probably be better done in a rotary weld positioner. The exact powered metal blend you use depends on the application and base material. https://www.castolin.com/en-US/produ...yn-system-2000Here's a video of Adam Booth (abom79) trying out the Terodyn 2000.Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk
Reply:The length is probably an avg 2ft, the diameter of the bearing surface 1.25, the sprocket shaft, approx 2inBeing poor is the most expensive thing there is
Reply:I would build up using welding the machine to size.Dave
Originally Posted by snoopdogg
The length is probably an avg 2ft, the diameter of the bearing surface 1.25, the sprocket shaft, approx 2in
Reply:If you do choose to use a powder metal spray weld like the Terodyn, I suggest cutting a thread into the shaft before doing the weld build-up. It gives more surface area for the material to adhere to. Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by snoopdogg
The length is probably an avg 2ft, the diameter of the bearing surface 1.25, the sprocket shaft, approx 2in
Reply:I wasn't real clear on the roll diameter, I guess, I get the point, but the shape of the shaft is approx 2in square between the bearing surfaces, with retaining ring grooves for however many number of sprockets. So steady rest is out of the question, but with aminimum outside the chuck and tailstock center I think it would be fine. Thanks everyone for the input!Being poor is the most expensive thing there is
Reply:You turn square in a steady rest. By using a sleeveDave
Originally Posted by snoopdogg
I wasn't real clear on the roll diameter, I guess, I get the point, but the shape of the shaft is approx 2in square between the bearing surfaces, with retaining ring grooves for however many number of sprockets. So steady rest is out of the question, but with aminimum outside the chuck and tailstock center I think it would be fine. Thanks everyone for the input!
Reply:
Originally Posted by snoopdogg
I wasn't real clear on the roll diameter, I guess, I get the point, but the shape of the shaft is approx 2in square between the bearing surfaces, with retaining ring grooves for however many number of sprockets. So steady rest is out of the question, but with aminimum outside the chuck and tailstock center I think it would be fine. Thanks everyone for the input!
Reply:Reason I like the steady rest is that it's much easier to keep everything concentric. If the shaft gets distorted some from welding it won't matter as your turning it into concentricity with the roll. Personally I believe the best way to build a conveyor roll is to incorporate QD or taper lock hubs on the end plates of the roll. Then you can easily replace damaged shafts. In my experience the vast majority of shafts don't need to be keyed at the locking bushings as the opposing forces do an excellent job of retaining the shaft to the roll . In a lot of applications I would simply order sprockets in a large enough diameter that the teeth can be machined off to a size to the I.D. of the roll.
Reply:To stop distorted on a shaft you have to weld round the od.If weld by a pass in straight line it will distorted.Dave
Originally Posted by M J D
Reason I like the steady rest is that it's much easier to keep everything concentric. If the shaft gets distorted some from welding it won't matter as your turning it into concentricity with the roll. Personally I believe the best way to build a conveyor roll is to incorporate QD or taper lock hubs on the end plates of the roll. Then you can easily replace damaged shafts. In my experience the vast majority of shafts don't need to be keyed at the locking bushings as the opposing forces do an excellent job of retaining the shaft to the roll . In a lot of applications I would simply order sprockets in a large enough diameter that the teeth can be machined off to a size to the I.D. of the roll.
Originally Posted by smithdoor
To stop distorted on a shaft you have to weld round the od.If weld by a pass in straight line it will distorted.Dave
Reply:You weld it like you are thread with weld.I have done a lot of shafts that way and works every time. I have also did powder torch way too and just a big hart break 😢. Dave
Originally Posted by M J D
No, it doesn't work that way. Alternating sides and welding longitudinal will give you a better chance, but no guarantee of warpage. Any time you apply heat that's the chance you take, but alternating sides gives the best chance of correcting distortion.
Reply:
Originally Posted by snoopdogg
So, aside from being a skill that I'm likely to use on the farm, I work for a company that does some food grade conveyor repair and remodel. Typically the end shaft bearing surfaces are toast, and the solution has been to have new shafts machined, with the accompanying wait time, which sometimes plays heck with scheduling. I would like to repair them and then turn down to original OD. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm concerned about warpage if I use rod and weld paralell vs having a positioner and going around the piece. Looking for some ideas, tricks that could help me out. Thanks ahead of time.
Reply:Years ago, before I owned a TIG machine, I bought 5 motors. The local farm store had bought them new & had sold them to end users, then they were returned. For inexplicable reasons, they weren't returned to the distributor. After sitting around several years, they sold them to me cheap.In each case, the shaft was loose in the armature assembly, & ball bearings.At the time, my friend owned a machine shop, but welding wasn't offered. He sent two of the shafts out for welding. He then heat straightened, then turned them down to needed size & pressed them in.Those welds were applied like wrapping a string around the shaft. In a 5 HP farm duty motor, this amounted to probably 18" of weld build up, a big job for a motor barely worth the cost.I later figured out Locktite made a product that worked equally well.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Years ago, before I owned a TIG machine, I bought 5 motors. The local farm store had bought them new & had sold them to end users, then they were returned. For inexplicable reasons, they weren't returned to the distributor. After sitting around several years, they sold them to me cheap.In each case, the shaft was loose in the armature assembly, & ball bearings.At the time, my friend owned a machine shop, but welding wasn't offered. He sent two of the shafts out for welding. He then heat straightened, then turned them down to needed size & pressed them in.Those welds were applied like wrapping a string around the shaft. In a 5 HP farm duty motor, this amounted to probably 18" of weld build up, a big job for a motor barely worth the cost.I later figured out Locktite made a product that worked equally well.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Might be worth having some stock if this is a regular problem?www.urkafarms.com
Reply:Most start with Locktite they a Locktite for upto a 0.005" gap.After it is back to welding I have done 8" shafts welded then turned to size.Dave
Originally Posted by Willie B
Years ago, before I owned a TIG machine, I bought 5 motors. The local farm store had bought them new & had sold them to end users, then they were returned. For inexplicable reasons, they weren't returned to the distributor. After sitting around several years, they sold them to me cheap.In each case, the shaft was loose in the armature assembly, & ball bearings.At the time, my friend owned a machine shop, but welding wasn't offered. He sent two of the shafts out for welding. He then heat straightened, then turned them down to needed size & pressed them in.Those welds were applied like wrapping a string around the shaft. In a 5 HP farm duty motor, this amounted to probably 18" of weld build up, a big job for a motor barely worth the cost.I later figured out Locktite made a product that worked equally well.
Reply:Just trying to visualize what you've mentioned. Do they look something like this ? 2" square bar with 1.25" round shafts on both ends ? Are any of the ends keyed ?
I've tig brazed a few, less heat, and easier to machine on my clapped out WW2 Logan Lathe.I gotta wonder what these guys are doing to these shafts, are they taking them out with a torch, and sledge hammer. Most of the time the flange or pillow block bearings fail, the balls fall out, and the races run on each other. Once or twice, I've had the sprocket loose the key and setscrew, and spin on the shaft. Are they using the "Intra lox" plastic conveyor belts ?good luckLast edited by albrightree; 2 Days Ago at 12:39 PM.Airco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square waveMiller Synchrowave 180 sdMiller Econo Twin HFLincoln 210 MPDayton 225 ac/dcVictor torchesSnap-On YA-212Lotos Cut60DPrimeweld 225 ac/dcPrimeweld mig180Miller AEAD-200
Reply:Bingo on the bottom pic, with some variances , and yes on the intralox belting.Being poor is the most expensive thing there is
Reply:I am in a similar industry - except I just troubleshoot and don't have to lift tools (very much) anymore.If the bearings and shaft are fretting, has the cause been diagnosed?Long, but possibly pertinent story:Working with a plastic bottle blow mold plant, they had pulleys where the shafts and bearings were fretting regularly on 4 different machines. Only 100RPM +/-, 48" long, 3" diameter w/ 1.00" welded-in keyed shaft. After lots of talking to the mechanics, and seeing evidence on the floor - it was admitted that they removed a support post under each gearbox. This pushed the overhung load all onto a torque arm and the shaft. A dial indicator noted a gentle wobble as the PT worked, enough to exceed the misalignment spec of the bearings and grind it all to a big mess. Talked them into trying, at least on one, to replace the support and start with a new pulley and bearings.I haven't sold them a pulley since.Has the shaft runout been checked (possible bend in it)? Sanitation crew smack the frame with a lift? Take-up rails tight and not wallowed out?Just my $0.02Yeswelder MIG-205DS(3) Angle Grinders at the ReadyJust a hobbyist trying to improve
Reply:I've fixed shafts just like this. Square and round. If your doing weld build up, you will warp the shaft no matter what you do. It's just the nature of stainless. It is better to weld around vs down the shaft if you want less warping. You can use the tig welder to bring the shaft back into close tolerances. I've moved shafts over .050 with just the tog torch and an air nozzle.It is better on the lathe tools to weld around the shaft as well because you are more likely to have more variances when welding down the shaft.
Reply:There doesn't seem to be a single cause, I feel it's the nature of the beast, that does'nt really want to pay for qualified help( not meant to be political). But the last set came in with a set of CARBON bearings, chewed up. Where and how does the maintenance dept not understand that in the food industry? I feel confident, after all the input, and some searches, that this is no hill for a stepper.Being poor is the most expensive thing there is
Reply:
Originally Posted by Leogl
The trouble with building up the shaft is welding time adds up fast and no matter how you do it machining a built up shaft it is always hard and it takes more time build one or two up machine them down figure out what you have in it your gonna be surprised it takes longer then you think your gonna find out that without proper procedures and post welding controlled cooling your gonna have problems with cracking
Reply:First thing I will say which is not directed at anyone here but more repairs in general. For the love of all that is sacred if what you are working on is stainless steel do not weld with anything that is not stainless steel! I don't care if you didn't know it was stainless or that all you have is some steel stick rods and a buzz box if its stainless and you can't do it properly DON'T!!!Sorry but the amount of times I have seen people who are ignorant of stainless steel and or don't even know something is stainless and treat it like steel is way too many. I have done stainless shaft repair. Can be done with stainless stick rod or TIG, I have always just tig welded it. As for shaft warpage I have lucked out where the only place the shaft bends from welding is where I welded which is usually the end of the shaft leaving the rest of the shaft straight. In that case I have always filled any keyways with weld and welded it up enough to where as long as you clock the shaft in true the act of turning the new end will give you a true shaft. Sometimes if it has a center in the end you will have to re-machine the center. If you do re-machine the center you have to actually bore the center true not just put a center drill in there as the center drill may follow the original hole and wont be perfect.Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch BOC Smootharc 185dc tig Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:Somebody mentioned there is a problem with one of the product conveyors. See if you can guess what's wrong.https://www.instagram.com/p/CeerwmCDzBO/Airco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square waveMiller Synchrowave 180 sdMiller Econo Twin HFLincoln 210 MPDayton 225 ac/dcVictor torchesSnap-On YA-212Lotos Cut60DPrimeweld 225 ac/dcPrimeweld mig180Miller AEAD-200
Reply:
Originally Posted by albrightree
Somebody mentioned there is a problem with one of the product conveyors. See if you can guess what's wrong.https://www.instagram.com/p/CeerwmCDzBO/
Reply:Here's the square shaft version:
This is the round shaft version that we use. Only had to replace one keyed shaft in 16 years on 3 conveyors.
Mcmaster is reasonable, and almost always next day delivery.
Airco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square waveMiller Synchrowave 180 sdMiller Econo Twin HFLincoln 210 MPDayton 225 ac/dcVictor torchesSnap-On YA-212Lotos Cut60DPrimeweld 225 ac/dcPrimeweld mig180Miller AEAD-200
Reply:
Originally Posted by albrightree
Here's the square shaft version:
This is the round shaft version that we use. Only had to replace one keyed shaft in 16 years on 3 conveyors.
Mcmaster is reasonable, and almost always next day delivery.
Reply:The bearings are on the ends. Build up the ends and turn each in a lathe with a steady-rest on the business end.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Lis2323
Thats the stuff we used on our carrot wash and grade lines.
Reply:
Originally Posted by 52 Ford
I notice that a lot of threads lately are turning to discussion of root vegetables..."How can I attach sides to this trailer?""Well, we had high sides on the ol onion wagon that my great grandpappy made and....."Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk
Reply:Welding the end isn't a big deal in my opinion. Weld it, turn it, be happy.
Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I agree 👍 A simple job.Dave
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
Welding the end isn't a big deal in my opinion. Weld it, turn it, be happy.
Reply:Stainless shaft buildup with TIG
After machining
RichardWest coast of Florida
Reply:
Originally Posted by LtBadd
Stainless shaft buildup with TIG
After machining
|
|
发表于 2022-6-8 15:51:31