The last word on 7014?

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After reading several web sites and searching this and other forums, I still haven't come up with a definitive conclusion about 7014, at least from the perspective of an AC-only welder. I have read comments like:"I would never use 7014 for any weld where strength was important.""7014 is just as strong as 7018/7018AC, and doesn't need to be stored in an oven.""7014 is a medium-penetration rod, the same as 7018.""7014 is a light-penetration rod, used mostly with sheet metal.""I've used 7014 on our farm equipment for many years, and have never had a weld failure."Both Lincoln and Hobart's web sites say 7014 is "ideal for applications requiring light penetration and faster travel speeds."Miller's site doesn't even mention it: "Common electrodes used for general work include 6010, 6011, 6013, 7018 and 7024, each of which has specific properties."Lincoln's site says 7014 is good for  "Maintenance and repair welding, sheet metal and fillet welds, and heavy sections." It would be useful, especially for us beginners, to hear from some of the more knowledgeable members of this forum on the subject, even if they disagree, and maybe we can reach some consensus. One gets the impression that 7014 is some kind of "orphan child" of the electrode world.
Reply:I would like to hear some experts chime in on 7014 too!  I use 1/16 rods for sheet metal work and would love to know what welders that make a living off the work think of it.Hobart LX235Victor 250 Oxy-Acetylene Rig (welding and cutting)Bobcat 773F-350, 1999, 4x4, 16' 10K# trailerOutdoor Wood Burner - 10 cords/year
Reply:When I worked for a compactor company we used 7014 to weld the sheets of 1/8" to the frames, faster than MIG, and cheap like the owner.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally

."
Reply:I am a "Hobby Welder", and very aware of my limitations.  I like 7014: because it is a "Drag Rod", there is almost no skill required on my part to use it, It builds a very smooth bead, it fills gaps nicely, it  leaves behind a slag coating that chips very easily.  Another big, in my opinion, plus; 7014 does not need a rod oven to properly store it.I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:I'll be interested to follow this thread, as well.Seems like you never hear much about 7014 – only 7018.
Reply:70XX is what 90% of the engineers drawings say. So 7014-7018-7024 would all qualify. Some project specifications will further define other requirements like Charpy V Notch requirements among other requirementsFor the home hobby crafter.  7018 might not be the best choice just because of the skills needed to run it. Can a weld made with non CVN 7018 work as well as one made with 7024-7016-7014-70XX YES definitively YES. Can you make that weld is the bigger more important question. As for quality of deposited weld material, they all have the one thing in common they are all 70,000 tensile electrode rods. the XX14-18-16-24-...... and on designate position and coating type and polarity requirements. I do suggest that you all go to Lincoln Electrics web site or ESAB and get the knowledge form the manufacture and not from morons spouting off in a forum. ME INCLUDED. The only motivation ESAB Lincoln Hobart have is to sell you more rod and equipment. The more you know about their product the more likely you'll be to buy their product. THEY ALL HAVE INFORMATION  available for free and customer service persons to talk you through selecting rod.   SO you will not get the definitive answer here in a forum you will get it from the manufacture of the rod if you select a manufacture worthy of your money.Last edited by Fat Bastard; 08-24-2011 at 03:58 PM.





Reply:I love 7014. Imake my foreman always have a box of it on the job. Not only is it my first, second and third choice for welding bridging, I can also hotrod metal if I have to, which is often. I carry 7018 and 7014 in my rod pouch.7014 has the same tensile strength per square inch as any other 70xx series rod. It is however more brittle - I can tell you this from many experiences. for instance a tack weld made with 7014, especially on something where we will be moving the other end, is a poor choice. A similar tack weld with 7018 is much more flexible. 7014 is a "fill-freeze" rod. It has a decent deposition rate, but is not a fast fill rod. The slag also solidifies quickly, but is not a fast-freeze rod. So for me that makes filling gaps easy. I also like it for welding thin deck because it does not penetrate as quickly as 6022 which sometimes just blows the sheet away instead of welding it.  Also, for welding in pour stop, which is usually galvanized sheet metal in and around holes in the floor to stop concrete, it penetrates that galvanize better than 7018. Restrike is easy as well.on edit: there is no definitive rod out there man.  I can do everything I like to do with 7108, or 6011, or whatever they give me. Some guys dont like 7014 at all. You really need to work with all of them, and understand how, for YOU, it works, and the applications for which it is appropriate. 7024 is on the way out in the structural world. Vulcraft/NuCor prohibits the use of it to weld their joists. Need a jet rod? 7028 is the way to go.Last edited by tenpins; 08-24-2011 at 04:26 PM.Weldanpower 225 G7Ironworkers Local #24
Reply:You have gotten some good advice here, but I'll add my 2 cents as well. If you are limited to an AC stick welder, 7014 is one of the better choices out there. They are easy to strike and easy to run, as the coating can be dragged on the base metal. They run well even on welders with low open-circuit voltage. They are strong enough for most non-critical applications, and critical applications are best not attempted by beginners.

   That being said, all rods have their uses- there would not be as many different electrodes as there are if there was one "best for everything" rod. You should try to become proficient with 6011, 6013, and 7018 as well (use 7018AC on an AC welder). If you are welding out-of-position (that is on vertical or overhead joints), you will find that 6011 and 7018 work a lot better than 7014.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:I never seen 7014 on a job site, so I'd never ran any, until a couple months ago. After reading post after post about it, I decided to give it a go. I thought it was child's play

.

Attached Images




Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!

CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST

3 SA-200sVantage 400


Reply:Cool demo CEP. Way cool.





Reply:How are samples prepared for those root and face bends? Cut strips with the bandsaw and then polished with a belt sander or something?Mikel
Reply:That's pretty much it in a nut shell.

Attached Images


Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!

CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST

3 SA-200sVantage 400


Reply:Thanks for those picts CEP! I'll save them for a thread I want to do in October on bends when I have the free time and access to more of the 3/8" material.Nice job on the bend demo as well. I may steal those picts as well when I do the thread..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Cool bend tester.
Reply:I'm planning to weld 3/8" chain hooks onto the bucket of my tractor's front end loader. These are pretty common; you hook a chain through them so you can use the loader to pick up heavy objects such as large logs, tree stumps, etc. which may weigh upwards of 1,000 pounds.  It seems universal to attach these chain hooks with 7018. But all the "experts" here are shouting, "no, don't use 7018 if you don't keep it in an oven!!!" Would you use 7014?  Here is a picture of one such installation:http://tinyurl.com/3negt86Last edited by Ruark; 08-25-2011 at 10:44 AM.
Reply:Instead of welding the hook to the bucket I suggest you weld an eye to the bucket and connect the hook via clevis and pin. Good hooks are hardened and welding them will negativity effect the the hook material. This welding can all be accomplished with any E(R)70XX





Reply:

Originally Posted by Fat Bastard

Cool demo CEP. Way cool.
Reply:

Originally Posted by tenpins

I love 7014. Imake my foreman always have a box of it on the job. Not only is it my first, second and third choice for welding bridging, I can also hotrod metal if I have to, which is often. I carry 7018 and 7014 in my rod pouch.7014 has the same tensile strength per square inch as any other 70xx series rod. It is however more brittle - I can tell you this from many experiences. for instance a tack weld made with 7014, especially on something where we will be moving the other end, is a poor choice. A similar tack weld with 7018 is much more flexible. 7014 is a "fill-freeze" rod. It has a decent deposition rate, but is not a fast fill rod. The slag also solidifies quickly, but is not a fast-freeze rod. So for me that makes filling gaps easy. I also like it for welding thin deck because it does not penetrate as quickly as 6022 which sometimes just blows the sheet away instead of welding it.  Also, for welding in pour stop, which is usually galvanized sheet metal in and around holes in the floor to stop concrete, it penetrates that galvanize better than 7018. Restrike is easy as well.on edit: there is no definitive rod out there man.  I can do everything I like to do with 7108, or 6011, or whatever they give me. Some guys dont like 7014 at all. You really need to work with all of them, and understand how, for YOU, it works, and the applications for which it is appropriate. 7024 is on the way out in the structural world. Vulcraft/NuCor prohibits the use of it to weld their joists. Need a jet rod? 7028 is the way to go.
Reply:I for one hate 7014 there is nothing I like about it, I for one learned to weld using 7018 and can use it in all positions. All we have at work is 7014 and the boss uses it because anyone can strike a arc with it. I for one wouldnt want "anyone" welding a sign thats 60' tall that would kill someone if the weld were to fail.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Donald Branscom

7024 is NOT on its way out.7024 is used in the horizontal or flat position. The"2" of the 7024.It is a iron powder rod and it makes a large fillet weld which is good for many things.It makes a good fillet weld around the deck of a boat where you want a joint that is easy to clean ,smooth , thereby reducing uneven weld surface that can start corrosion if the paint is not smooth. 7024 deposits a lot of metal.Many people on this forum need to take the time to find out what different rods are  used for and what the numbers mean. You need a POCKET WELDING GUIDE. You can get them on Ebay. It fits in your pocket and can answer many simple welding questions.The pocket welding guide can tell you what the numbers of the welding rod mean, type of flux (light or heavy deposition), depth of penetration, tensile strength, How to run the rod.
Reply:

Originally Posted by thelbz

I for one hate 7014 there is nothing I like about it, I for one learned to weld using 7018 and can use it in all positions. All we have at work is 7014 and the boss uses it because anyone can strike a arc with it. I for one wouldnt want "anyone" welding a sign thats 60' tall that would kill someone if the weld were to fail.
Reply:CEP, very nice demo and post!

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Originally Posted by Fat Bastard

Instead of welding the hook to the bucket I suggest you weld an eye to the bucket and connect the hook via clevis and pin. Good hooks are hardened and welding them will negativity effect the the hook material. This welding can all be accomplished with any E(R)70XX
Reply:

Originally Posted by Fat Bastard

Instead of welding the hook to the bucket I suggest you weld an eye to the bucket and connect the hook via clevis and pin. Good hooks are hardened and welding them will negativity effect the the hook material. This welding can all be accomplished with any E(R)70XX
Reply:

Originally Posted by Donald Branscom

You need a POCKET WELDING GUIDE. You can get them on Ebay. It fits in your pocket and can answer many simple welding questions.The pocket welding guide can tell you what the numbers of the welding rod mean, type of flux (light or heavy deposition), depth of penetration, tensile strength, How to run the rod.
Reply:7014 is a iron powder 6013 good for sheet metal and poor fit up . We use it on my side job to tack detail on structural. At harris we use 8018 c 3 as we do a lot of 588 work a terriable tack rod. E 7024 is a low hydrogen fast fill Jet rod good for structural.

Originally Posted by Donald Branscom

7024 is NOT on its way out.7024 is used in the horizontal or flat position. The"2" of the 7024.It is a iron powder rod and it makes a large fillet weld which is good for many things.It makes a good fillet weld around the deck of a boat where you want a joint that is easy to clean ,smooth , thereby reducing uneven weld surface that can start corrosion if the paint is not smooth. 7024 deposits a lot of metal.Many people on this forum need to take the time to find out what different rods are  used for and what the numbers mean.
Reply:Then whats the advantage to 7028?[Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:

Originally Posted by Ruark

Thanks, but I think I'll go with welding them directly to the bucket. That's the standard way to do it, as it has been done with tens of thousands of FELs out there. The one in that picturre is a classic example. In fact, you can buy hooks (as I have) called weld-on hooks, shaped specifically for being welded in this manner.I'm planning to use 7014, although a sizable number of people out there will shudder in horror at the idea of using anything besides 7018(AC).
Reply:

Originally Posted by Lanse

Then whats the advantage to 7028?
Reply:I prefer bondo and super glue , if i think its gonna be structural ill use super man's laser beam eyes....I charge 115 a hour, cant make this **** up.I forgot how to change this.
Reply:I bookmarked the link, but don't know who originally posted it.https://www.welding.org/c-22-general-welding-books.aspxMontgomery Ward Powr Kraft AC-DC 230/140
Reply:

Originally Posted by Stick-man

There are weld on hooks by Gunnebo that specifically state to use 7018.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Ruark

Specifically, it says "AWS A 5.1 E 7018 or equal." Does "or equal" include 7014?A comment on the guy a few posts back who mentioned not wanting "anyone," evidently his boss using 7014, welding a 60-foot metal sign that could fall on somebody:Here, once again, we have somebody stating, or at least clearly insinuating, that 7014 produces a weak, inferior weld. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've read something like, "never use 7014 for any weld where strength is important," the idea being to use 7018 instead.  You get the impression 7014 is seen as a weak, crummy rod that you would never use for anything serious.  Miller's web site lists rods that are "frequently used": 6010, 6011, 6013, 7018, 7024. 7014 isn't even mentioned.Yet there are still those who support using it, including farmers and ranchers who have used it for years on heavy farm equipment and never had a weld failure. Even my own experience: the other day I welded the end of a 4" piece of 2" X 1/4" square pipe to a sheet of 3/8" plate with 1/8" 7014 @ 130 amps, running the bead all the way around. Then I tried knocking it off with a 5 pound sledge.  I beat the living CRAP out of that thing until I was ready to drop from exhaustion. No luck; it was absolutely immovable.  Of course, that wasn't a scientific test, but that damn 7014 seems like pretty strong rod to me.Again, input or reflection from knowledgeable people is welcome.
Reply:Not advocating anything but here is a link to a "somewhat" subjective test. The OP is a retired bridge weldor of 30+ years.http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/w...reak-test.htmlI use 7014 on the farm only for cosmetic purposes where there is a lot of restarting. IE - building a brush guard for the tractor from 2" x 3/8" flat stock. At the ends of the T's a little filler is needed to finish off the joint. It is then ground flat/flush for appearance.
Reply:Stick welding is a art and 7014 take alot of the art out of it so welder are afraid. At a weld school the teacher started a 7014 and laid it on it side it made a weld better looking than some people can make.All rod have their place.
Reply:

Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLC

I prefer bondo and super glue , if i think its gonna be structural ill use super man's laser beam eyes....I charge 115 a hour, cant make this **** up.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Fat Bastard

You are making foolish, brash and ignorant comments. They are not relevant to the discussion, relevant to 7014, nor relevant to general welding practices.  Welds today don't typically fail "joints" do.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Ruark

Here, once again, we have somebody stating, or at least clearly insinuating, that 7014 produces a weak, inferior weld. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've read something like, "never use 7014 for any weld where strength is important," the idea being to use 7018instead. Yet there are still those who support using it, including farmers and ranchers who have used it for years on heavy farm equipment and never had a weld failure. .
Reply:Breaking News Everybody!! The Pity Train has derailed at the intersection of Suck It Up and Move On, and Crashed into We All Have Problems, before coming to a complete stop at Get The Hell Over It!!! Any complaints about how I Operate this Household can be forwarded to 1-800-Waa-Waaaa!!!! This Is Dr. Sniffle Reporting LIVE From Qiitchur Bitchin!!!! Suck it up Cup Cake, Life Doesn't Revolve around YOU!!





Reply:

Originally Posted by Fat Bastard

Breaking News Everybody!! The Pity Train has derailed at the intersection of Suck It Up and Move On, and Crashed into We All Have Problems, before coming to a complete stop at Get The Hell Over It!!! Any complaints about how I Operate this Household can be forwarded to 1-800-Waa-Waaaa!!!! This Is Dr. Sniffle Reporting LIVE From Qiitchur Bitchin!!!! Suck it up Cup Cake, Life Doesn't Revolve around YOU!!
Reply:Thank you FatBastard, that was very helpful.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Ruark

Thank you FatBastard, that was very helpful.
Reply:I don't have a dog in this fight, but post #9 by CEP pretty much answers the whole 7014 issue.
Reply:

Originally Posted by welds4d

I don't have a dog in this fight, but post #9 by CEP pretty much answers the whole 7014 issue.
Reply:FB: you're a poster on a public forum, too, does that make you a blowhard?  I'm just a beginner trying to learn, and everywhere I look, I read comments about never using 7014 for any weld where strength is important, it's used mainly for sheet metal. So that's some kind of urban legend?  Or maybe it's one of those self-perpetuating rumors - one guy reads it and repeats it, then another guy reads it and repeats it, etc. and eventually everybody believes it simply because they're heard it so many times.  It's not that I believe what I read here, it's trying to determine WHAT to believe.  And yes, of course I checked the Lincoln/Hobart sites. All they say is "ideal for applications requiring light penetration and faster travel speeds." Lincoln adds: "good for maintenance and repair welding, sheet metal and fillet welds, and heavy sections." Uh, what does that NOT include?Let me put it this way: would you build a trailer with 7014?
Reply:

Originally Posted by Ruark

FB: you're a poster on a public forum, too, does that make you a blowhard?  And yes, of course I checked the Lincoln/Hobart sites. All they say is "ideal for applications requiring light penetration and faster travel speeds." Lincoln adds: "good for maintenance and repair welding, sheet metal and fillet welds, and heavy sections." Uh, what does that NOT include?Let me put it this way: would you build a trailer with 7014?
Reply:AWS A5.1/A5.1M: 2004 E7014ASME SFA-A5.1: E7014ABS: E7014Lloyd’s Register: 1MDNV Grade: 1GL: 1BV Grade: 1CWB: E4914





Reply:AWS A5.1/A5.1M: 2004 E7018 H4RASME SFA-5.1/A5.1M: E7018 H4RABS: 3Y H5Lloyd’s Register: 3YM H5DNV Grade: 3 YH5GL: 3 YH5BV Grade: 3YHHHCWB/CSA W48-06: E4918





Reply:Aws a5.1/a5.1m: 2004 e7018 h8asme sfa-a5.1: E7018 h8cwb/csa w48-06: E4918-h8





Reply:

Originally Posted by Pavinsteelman

7014 is a iron powder 6013 good for sheet metal and poor fit up . We use it on my side job to tack detail on structural. At harris we use 8018 c 3 as we do a lot of 588 work a terriable tack rod. E 7024 is a low hydrogen fast fill Jet rod good for structural.