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Howdy guys, been a while since I stopped by. I've sent a few folks over this way though. As the title states, I just picked up a SA250 D3 152, code 9599 from the scrapper for $400. It appears to be 99% complete. I have a few pieces of sheetmetal not pictured, and a part of the rotor that was removed which is also not pictured. I will get pics of the other pieces and add them in a little bit. It looks like the brushes have been pulled out of the holders, so I'm guessing they were trying to troubleshoot. Can I tie the brushes back out of the way and see about getting the engine running, or do these require output on the welding alternator to start/run? Anything I should check or look for before trying to spin it over by hand? I did check the oil, no coolant or water contamination. The radiator didn't appear to have much coolant in it. Haven't checked the fuel tank or filter yet.Here's the pics I have. https://imgur.com/gallery/7tkiolb I'll go lay out the sheetmetal and the rotor piece, snap pics, and add those to the gallery. TIA for any help.
Reply:New gallery link. https://imgur.com/gallery/LztmwEWFound a couple of wires that had been cut/severed. Also looks like the wires to the oil pressure sending unit need at least a section replaced. Radiator is indeed full of clean coolant. Tank is full of old diesel. I'm going to drain the oil and fuel. Nothing in IM407 is telling me what weight of oil to use. Nothing about the air filter either. I know this is a perkins engine, but no idea where to look on the casting for ID. Just found info on where to look for the serial number, so maybe I can find a manual. The coarse current rheostat is stuck, so I'm going to have to pull the hood for a good look at it.Last edited by machinisttx; 08-29-2020 at 04:16 PM.
Reply:Got the cut/severed wires and the ones with missing insulation replaced or spliced. Fixed the coarse rheostat. Turned out that the spring was bent/misaligned. Replaced the fuel return line and siphoned ten gallons of stinky old red diesel out. Still another 3 gallons or so in the tank. Was going to pull the tank, until I realized it was banded like a pallet. I'd still pull it, but we don't use steel banding at work, so I can't put it back on the same way. Going to have to replace the sediment bowl/fuel valve....tried cleaning it out. Can't get it to flow more than a tiny trickle, then it plugs back up with gummy crap. It was terrible when I first took it apart. Finally found the serial number on the block, this one's a 1993. Figured it used 15w-40, found info to confirm. Convenient for me since I buy Rotella by the 5 gallon pail. Found oil/fuel filter numbers. It has the wrong oil filter on it. Planning on picking that stuff up and a new fan belt tomorrow after work.
Reply:Perkins AD3-152 is one of the best engines ever made and sips fuel. I have one in an MF135 tractor. Biggest problem on SA250's was they vibrated a bit much at idle. 15W-40 would be a good oil to use.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Welder Dave
Perkins AD3-152 is one of the best engines ever made and sips fuel. I have one in an MF135 tractor. Biggest problem on SA250's was they vibrated a bit much at idle. 15W-40 would be a good oil to use.
Reply:
Originally Posted by machinisttx
Here's the pics I have.
Reply:
Originally Posted by FlyFishn
Can you post pictures directly here? I can't see the pictures on the links you provided - the site requires registering, of which I am not going to do. I presume there are a lot of others in the same boat.
Reply:Sorry guys, I didn't realize imgur required you to register just to view. I just uploaded them here to weldingweb. Maybe this will work? https://weldingweb.com/vbb/album.php?albumid=5016Picked up new breakers a little while ago, along with some hardware and a new flapper for the exhaust. I never thought I would be disappointed by rain in September here in TX, but at least it held off long enough for us to get our dove hunt on this morning.Last edited by machinisttx; 09-01-2020 at 03:17 PM.
Reply:Happy birthday daddy. Fwt ready to est this cake like you eat ??? Wow!Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:
Originally Posted by N2 Welding
Happy birthday daddy. Fwt ready to est this cake like you eat ??? Wow!
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Originally Posted by machinisttx
Sorry guys, I didn't realize imgur required you to register just to view. I just uploaded them here to weldingweb. Maybe this will work? https://weldingweb.com/vbb/album.php?albumid=5016Picked up new breakers a little while ago, along with some hardware and a new flapper for the exhaust. I never thought I would be disappointed by rain in September here in TX, but at least it held off long enough for us to get our dove hunt on this morning.
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Originally Posted by FlyFishn
Thanks for the pictures. You can load them directly to the thread also. They don't have to be in an "album". To each their own. What I like about the in-thread pictures is you can describe them in the thread right along side the pictures. That and people replying can comment on the individual pictures by quoting them. So that adds some consistency to the conversation, I think. In any event, that machine looks like a lot of work. Pace yourself and tackle it in segments. Don't expect to throw in some new parts and have it work in a week. Enjoy the journey, don't get impatient for the destination and end up resenting the journey. Likewise, if something is going to need time to do it "right" - now is the time to do it "right". You hopefully won't ever have things torn apart or ground down to bare metal again in the future, so while you're there you should make sure things are done "right" (what ever you determine is "right" - either by your own judgement based on what you know or research, or what guidance you're offered here on the forum or elsewhere). Some times "just getting it running" isn't good enough. Making it "right" and making it "run" are two different things.Its kinda like a beater pickup truck. Do you want to get it running long enough to make it to the junk yard under its own power? Or do you want it to run well enough you can use it on the farm to haul stuff between fields the rest of the season and next several seasons?
Reply:Those are damn good welders, even today they will do a nicer job stick welding than anything else, good find there. Who in their right mind would toss something like that in a junkyard?
Reply:
Originally Posted by Popeye an old miner
Those are damn good welders, even today they will do a nicer job stick welding than anything else, good find there. Who in their right mind would toss something like that in a junkyard?
Reply:Coils and rotors should not have any cross-continuity/shorts between legs, but should between poles of each phase (coils in series - in some designs there are several coils per phase, for example, not the same reference as "3 phase power" - as in a 3 phase alternator where each phase has coils is in series to boost the voltage - hence the continuity between the poles of the phases). Without seeing a schematic its hard to guess at it. However, the two legs, say, of the rotor you were checking should show some resistance, but not a short. That appears to be what you show. As to how much resistance - that I have no idea. When I got my Round Top home I did the same thing you're doing - checked over the transformer and electrical side doing continuity checks. What I was after was exactly what I typed above - to see if there were any shorts (namely in the transformer between the primary and secondary windings). Finding none - the next step was to plug it in and fire it up. If there were shorts between turns of the primary or the secondary the resistance check of each (primary or secondary) would test lower (shorted windings meaning that current has a shorter distance through the windings = less conductor to pass through = less resistance) and the operational affect of that would be the machine voltage operating out of spec, if it ran at all and didn't throw the breaker. So again - giving a numerical value to what resistance you should see is incredibly difficult to nail down. What is most important, though, is that you don't show a short. So with what you have found so far I say don't worry about it and set it aside until you need to put it back together. Or, if someone else pipes in here with more detailed information that can give you a spec range of resistances for what you're testing that would be great information to have and work with. For now, though, I'd roll with it then get to where the machine runs and check the voltage spec.Last edited by FlyFishn; 09-03-2020 at 12:05 AM.
Reply:machinisttx PM sent
Reply:WOW! Nice Find! I have the DC only version SA 250. That 3-152D Perkins engine is hard to beat. I have the same Engine in my Massey 135 tractor, sips fuel. That will be a nice fixer upper.SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969 1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only2004 Ranger 10,000Lincoln Pro Mig 135Miller Load BankHobart GPB 258 PipelinerHobart GPB 261 MainlinerHobart Airforce 250Everlast PA 200st
Reply:Just came in from checking out a few more things on the electrical end and replacing the 120v duplex. As far as I can tell, the magic smoke end is all good. I'm going to clean the tank out as best I can, get everything bolted back on, bleed the fuel system, and see if she'll chooch. I'm going to be through the roof if it runs, makes power, and welds.
Reply:Tried to start it this evening. No luck. Could hear it trying, but just wouldn't go.
Reply:
Originally Posted by machinisttx
Tried to start it this evening. No luck. Could hear it trying, but just wouldn't go.
Reply:If you have bubble free fuel at both bleeder holes on the injection pump, usually a tiny shot (1 second) of ether will get it to fire. If it doesn't, pump the hand primer more and try again. In a welder it might not be too bad to loosen the fuel lines at the injectors. In my tractor they're very hard to get at. Do not use the Thermo-Start if using ether.
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Originally Posted by Welder Dave
If you have bubble free fuel at both bleeder holes on the injection pump, usually a tiny shot (1 second) of ether will get it to fire. If it doesn't, pump the hand primer more and try again. In a welder it might not be too bad to loosen the fuel lines at the injectors. In my tractor they're very hard to get at. Do not use the Thermo-Start if using ether.
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Originally Posted by machinisttx
It was bubble free the second time I bled it. Going to try bleeding at the injectors. Forgot to mention it before, but the gauge was showing 60psi oil pressure when cranking, so I'm assuming the engine is in pretty decent shape internally.
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Originally Posted by ronsii
I rarely bleed at the pump because any air up there will get into the injector lines anyway and you'll have to do the process all over again at the injectors. Just crack all the lines loose at every injector and go for it
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Originally Posted by 12V71
Yep, at cranking speed all that happens is compressing the air in the lines, more than once on an older Cat 3406 that ran out of fuel on the road I've had to pull a rocker cover to bleed at the injectors on a couple holes to get it to fire. Once it started on 2 or 3 cylinders it would force the air through the rest of them. That's why the touch of ether works at times too, gets it spinning fast enough and long enough to push the air through the injector.
Originally Posted by ronsii
LOL!!!! 'A touch' yeah, I've told people just a tiny bit of ether will help... they call up a few hours later telling me how it's almost running and it'll 'run on ether' -- so I show up and there's 3-4 empty cans of ether on the ground and two sets of jumpers running to the batteries...
Reply:Perkins can be a little finicky to bleed but talked to an experienced mechanic who said a a small shot of ether after hand priming with no bubbles wouldn't hurt. Small shot is 1 second not 1 can. A lot of people don't pump the hand primer enough. After the bubbles are gone you need to pump about 20 times more.
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Originally Posted by Welder Dave
Perkins can be a little finicky to bleed but talked to an experienced mechanic who said a a small shot of ether after hand priming with no bubbles wouldn't hurt. Small shot is 1 second not 1 can. A lot of people don't pump the hand primer enough. After the bubbles are gone you need to pump about 20 times more.
Reply:I have one of these there is a real fine screen in the sediment bowl MAKE sure it is clean there is also another screeen in or by the electric fuel pump you have to take out a small Phillips screw in the middle of the lid there is a Oring a small one my experience has taught me to change that oring they leak and makes it hard to prime
Reply:I finally got back to it and made a little progress. Bled the injector pump and fuel filter again, just to be sure. Then I bled the injectors, twice. Stale diesel really has a stench of it's own. The lines were full of air and stale diesel. Then I started cranking. It started puffing a little more, and a little more, and a little more, then a lot, then it finally hit a good lick, caught, and would have run on it's own if I'd held the button down another half a second. Mashed it again, it popped right off and ran. Oil pressure gauge showed close to 80 psi oil pressure, which dropped a little as it started warming up. Blew a whole lot of garbage out of the exhaust pipe.
I didn't run it long, but did run it long enough to figure out it isn't charging the battery, the idler isn't working, there's no welding current output, and no auxiliary AC output. Also not sure if the temp gauge or sending unit are any good. Engine felt warm enough that the gauge should have registered, but it never moved.The commutator and AC slip rings are clean. The brushes are all in very good shape and making good contact. I'm suspecting that either the oil pressure switch is bad, or the alternator is bad, or both. I assumed it was the alternator last night and so took the existing Prestolite unit off. Bought a one wire Delco to replace it for $60 or so. Didn't get it on last night, so I spent some time reading up while the wife was gone this morning getting groceries. That lead me to wondering if a bad oil pressure switch might have caused all the problems rather than just some of them. Also wondering if I should check the reed switch.
The panel that the welding lugs are connected to is somewhat bent. It's bent enough that it might have damaged the reed switch.
Originally Posted by Leogl
I have one of these there is a real fine screen in the sediment bowl MAKE sure it is clean there is also another screeen in or by the electric fuel pump you have to take out a small Phillips screw in the middle of the lid there is a Oring a small one my experience has taught me to change that oring they leak and makes it hard to prime
Reply:Glad to hear you've got it running.My two cent would be to focus on finding the problem with the welding section and when that's fixed work on the alternator and auto idle (reed switch etc).Since you question the temperature gauge carefully monitor the temp during testing.Check wiring diagram for your machine for fuses or circuit breakers.Next since you don't have AC output, flash the fields. Search the net for instructions or a service manual if you can find one.Next would be testing the field diode bridge. Again net search or manual.Keep us posted and good luck.
Reply:
Originally Posted by KC51
Glad to hear you've got it running.My two cent would be to focus on finding the problem with the welding section and when that's fixed work on the alternator and auto idle (reed switch etc).Since you question the temperature gauge carefully monitor the temp during testing.Check wiring diagram for your machine for fuses or circuit breakers.Next since you don't have AC output, flash the fields. Search the net for instructions or a service manual if you can find one.Next would be testing the field diode bridge. Again net search or manual.Keep us posted and good luck.
Reply:Just got some schematics from Lincoln. Looks like my suspicion was right and I need to at least check the oil pressure switch. Alternator went to the repair shop today, so that's getting ruled out. Ordering a new pressure switch today.
Reply:Alternator repair guy said it was in bad shape, but got it rebuilt and back to me today. Put it back on this evening. Charging problem is solved and the oil pressure switch is good. Still no welding current, no AC, and the idler isn't working.. I flashed the AC side per the instructions Lincoln sent me. Still got no AC.
Reply:Glad you're making some progress.Was the fuse you checked on one of the AC wires feeding the bride rectifier? I'd suggest following the troubleshooting guide in the service manual you have. It may not be for your exact machine but should be close.After flashing with no AC output test for problems with the welding alternator(exciter).
Reply:
Originally Posted by KC51
Glad you're making some progress.Was the fuse you checked on one of the AC wires feeding the bride rectifier? I'd suggest following the troubleshooting guide in the service manual you have. It may not be for your exact machine but should be close.After flashing with no AC output test for problems with the welding alternator(exciter).
Reply:I have a Lincoln Ranger 250 I have got trouble with it when you start it if it goes to a idle it will weld but when you change rod it will not weld again until you kill the machine and start it and it goes back to a idle then you can weld again I though it may be the PC Board but never had this to happen before. anyone have any ideals
Reply:Getting 0.6 volts at the welding lug terminals and 1 volt to 1.6 volts from the 115v outlets. Talking to a tech at Lincoln. Maybe I'll get it sorted out. If not, I bet I can get more than $400 out of the engine.
Reply:Well, just got off the phone with Bob Crow at Lincoln. Looks like the armature is shorted.
Gonna call around and see if anyone has a good used one or has recommendations on a rewind service.
Reply:Sorry to hear that.I had the same situation several years ago and was lucky enough to find a parts machine. I used Eurton to rewind an exciter armature several years ago and at that time they listed main armature rewinding on their website. I don't see it now but worth a call https://eurtonelectric.com/catalog/armatures/lincolnBob Crow is a class guy. I think formally retired but still helps out.
Reply:Thread got hijacked with a new title. I put the title back to the way it was using the Advanced Reply. Will see if that sticks.Century buzzbox that I learned on 40+ years ago (was Dad's)Crappy Century 110volt mig 70 amp pigeon pooper.Lincoln Idealarc TIG-300
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Originally Posted by KC51
Sorry to hear that.I had the same situation several years ago and was lucky enough to find a parts machine. I used Eurton to rewind an exciter armature several years ago and at that time they listed main armature rewinding on their website. I don't see it now but worth a call https://eurtonelectric.com/catalog/armatures/lincolnBob Crow is a class guy. I think formally retired but still helps out.
Reply:Thanks for the info. Bob said he was retired, but still came in a couple of days a week to help out with the older machines.
Originally Posted by duaneb55
Ditto on Bob Crow.Eurton is my go to for rewinds. Shoot John Buchanan an email ([email protected]) and he'll give you a quote in short order.
Reply:Got another armature(used). Pressure washed the machine a few days ago to get all the grime off. When I was washing it, it occurred to me that the grime around the welding generator looked an awful lot like the rear main seal had been leaking. Made me wonder if that was what shorted it. Waiting until I have the rest of the parts I plan on replacing before I separate it. It has some blow by, and since there's no hour meter, I'm debating whether to do a full rebuild while it's out.
Reply:Took the Lincoln to work(overhead hoist for the win) a couple days ago and have been working on it here and there when the boss is out of paying jobs for me. Got it split yesterday and pulled the old armature off. Confirmed leaking rear main seal. Also popped the valve cover off and set the valve lash. Going to pick up some miscellaneous stuff today along with a new thermostat. Maybe by the end of the day Monday I'll have it all back together and welding.
Reply:Got it all put back together. It runs and welds now. Haven't had time to check OCV or voltage at the outlets.
Reply:Hi machinisttx, Did you ever get your machine welding? Hey I need to re-wire my oil pressure switch on my Sa 250 and am having a hard time figuring out where the 2 wires go to coming off of the pressure sensor. The schematic I printed off is very confusing. Did you figure out the correct way to wire yours?Thanks in advance
Reply:You can pressure wash the bottom of the tank.www.urkafarms.com |
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发表于 2022-5-19 11:02:37