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Yep, that's the reference I found for the part - "special nut"It's not available anywhere I looked (plus my shop classes are way "over budget" anyway).I'm finally getting around to making the spindle nut for the Delta drill press at the school.(spent many, many hours fixing other tools and equipment)Anyway - I measured it today and the numbers don't make sense.LH thread 16 TPIMajor Diam: 0.930"Pitch Diam: 0.915"Minor Diam: 0.870"That doesn't make it 1" or 15/16"I even converted the measurements to see if it was m24x1.5 - that didn't work either.Is it actually possible they made their "special nut" really that special?My plan is to make a threaded stud to use as a thread checker while the nut is in the lathe.I'm guessing I have to just make it to the measurements I took and then make the nut to match?
Any insight into this? Anyone run into this before?
Hey Samm, how many pages do you think I should run this thread for full benefit?
Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:The nut that fell off looks terrible.Kind of looks like someone made a replacement that failed?
Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Is it like this one? https://www.fix.com/parts/drill-pres...l-nut-1346054/I was wondering if you could start with a 1" extended nut and cut it down, but it doesn't look that way from this one...Posted before you got the pic up.... wonder if this is what it started with?The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Just make one out of 1144 steel or better W1 tool steel.It does look like something that was manufactured maybe a milling arbor. Dave
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
The nut that fell off looks terrible.Kind of looks like someone made a replacement that failed?
Reply:The one in the link I posted looks to use some kind of special 1" spanner style wrench... guess you need a special wrench to turn the special nut...The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
Just make one out of 1144 steel or better W1 tool steel.It does look like something that was manufactured maybe a milling arbor. Dave
Reply:
Originally Posted by whtbaron
The one in the link I posted looks to use some kind of special 1" spanner style wrench... guess you need a special wrench to turn the special nut...
Reply:I'm thinking that based on my measurements, I better make my threaded stud "gauge" to my measurements and not to 1"x16TPI LH specs.The 1" specs don't match and would likely end up with a nut that is too sloppy.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Seems awfully close to 15/16-16.How did you measure the minor diameter?Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XLMillermatic 180 Purox O/ASmith Littletorch O/AHobart Champion Elite
Reply:
Originally Posted by jpump5
Seems awfully close to 15/16-16.How did you measure the minor diameter?
Reply:That is a milling arbor nut.You buy off the shelf Dave
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
It's close, but not quite there unfortunately. Plus I didn't find a LH nut that size either...dang it.Minor diameter is "measured" the way I normally do, knife edge of the dial calipers in the grooves, with a small correction.I know that's not the super "correct" way to find the minor, but I normally just use the angled measurement when making comparisons to another known part.
Reply:The cost is very high around $50.00 I would just make one from bar stock. Dave
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
It's close, but not quite there unfortunately. Plus I didn't find a LH nut that size either...dang it.Minor diameter is "measured" the way I normally do, knife edge of the dial calipers in the grooves, with a small correction.I know that's not the super "correct" way to find the minor, but I normally just use the angled measurement when making comparisons to another known part.
Reply:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
My plan is to make a threaded stud to use as a thread checker while the nut is in the lathe.I'm guessing I have to just make it to the measurements I took and then make the nut to match?
Any insight into this? Anyone run into this before?
Reply:Have you tried calling Delta? I know they are a shadow of their former selves, but they used to have super helpful tech lines you could call. They may have access to more info than you can find online and may also be willing to share it with you.Also checking Mcmaster is always one of my first stops...-DaveXMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled
Reply:
Originally Posted by 123weld
i done it for the dust cap on my trailers hub. i think i still have both pieces, its been 25 yrs. i think ur on the right track, the minor dia shouldnt matter, if its 60 degree u'r 60 bit will give u that auto. id measure actual spindles major dia, take measurent over thread wires, and confirm its 60 degree. then match ur measurement over the wires when cuttting the stud
Reply:This thread chart shows 15/16" machine screws for 12, 16 and 20 TPI:https://www.fastenersinc.com/wp-cont...rill_chart.pdfIt's also listed in my Machinery's Handbook 23rd Edition.Last edited by Denis G; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:44 AM.
Reply:Just a random thought - if this nut doesn't fit quite right, and I feel it'll come off - a little tig tack will fix the problem
But I'd likely just drill and tap two set screws instead, since I'd be the one having to take it apart when the bearings need replacing....
Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Sounds great.Note: Use a good steel like 1045 , 1144 or 4140 so the thread holdup Dave
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
Sounds good - I forgot my thread wires at home, but did remember my pitch diameter micrometer. I did verify 60° threads, so I think the plan of making it to match the measurements should work.I'll cut both pieces today and see how it goes
I did contact Delta - "that part is obsolete with no replacement." Mcmaster unfortunately didn't have it when I checked. I really thought they would have it.But since the numbers don't check out, a standard nut probably wouldn't work - too loose.Personally, since the P.D. is so close to the major diameter, I think the tops of the threads may have been damaged.Likely that when the original stripped, and then the replacement stripped, the thread tips were partially flattened a little.
Reply:That thread pitch and diameter seems to be the same as JIC hydraulic fittings, I believe -10. Of course they are right hand thread but dimensions should be the same. Correction, sae flareLast edited by M J D; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:53 AM.
Reply:If remember right that thread use on some Milling machine arbor They are just under size so the milling cutters will slip over the thread and L/H too.Most machine shops will make a new nut in shop due the high cost manufactures put on part.Dave
Originally Posted by M J D
That thread pitch and diameter seems to be the same as JIC hydraulic fittings, I believe -10. Of course they are right hand thread but dimensions should be the same.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Denis G
This thread chart shows 15/16" machine screws for 12, 16 and 20 TPI:https://www.fastenersinc.com/wp-cont...rill_chart.pdfIt's also listed in my Machinery's Handbook 23rd Edition.
Reply:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
If remember right that thread use on some Milling machine arbor They are just under size so the milling cutters will slip over the thread and L/H too.Most machine shops will make a new nut in shop due the high cost manufactures put on part.Dave
Reply:Here's a LH tap that is that size, if you cannot find the nut that you need (or you don't want to turn it yourself):https://www.gaugestools.com/1516-16-...hread-tap-hss/Last edited by Denis G; 4 Weeks Ago at 01:29 PM.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Denis G
Here's a LH tap that is that size, if you cannot find the nut that you need (or you don't want to turn it yourself):https://www.gaugestools.com/1516-16-...hread-tap-hss/
Reply:What do you suppose the engineer who designed that was smokin' when he thought that was a great idea? And then some number cruncher decided "Let's not make any more of those cause we don't sell more that 20,000 of those a month." Short rant, I'm done.
---Meltedmetal
Originally Posted by Meltedmetal
What do you suppose the engineer who designed that was smokin' when he thought that was a great idea? And then some number cruncher decided "Let's not make any more of those cause we don't sell more that 20,000 of those a month." Short rant, I'm done.
Reply:If had shaft in my shop it would take under 1 hour to make a new nut. Less time if made out hex bar stock.If made hundred or more it would take about 5 minutes with tap and if single point 10 minutes in her bar stock . Add 5 minutes for your photo for milling the flats.Dave
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
From what I understand they do that a lot.The industrial Delta table saw at school is another example. When the saw arbor threads wore out there were no replacements.I considered disassembly, weld, turn on lathe, thread for a standard LH nut.But I finally found 1 company that sells a replacement - in the entire internet, 1 company.Screaming deal too. About $150 for arbor, LH special thread nut and the new bearings.They even duplicated the nearly Acme, sort of Square, thread.They must have sold millions of those saws, but Delta stopped making the part. I suppose they figure since it's "industrial" a company would just buy a new saw...
Reply:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
Dang, they even make the LH version I would need.School wouldn't buy a one-time tool though. I'll just machine it up - thank you for the help
Reply:You could remove shaft and thread with a standard 7/8" NF L/H thread and then use a standard 7/8" L/H NF nut. Dave
Originally Posted by Denis G
I'd do it on the lathe too! You'd have to wait for shipping from China and gamble on quality. With me, I'd have to be really careful because my lathe chucks are screw-on and I haven't done a lot of single point threading (but then again, a chance to practice is always good).
Reply:Had some time yesterday, made the test plug basically to 15/16" x 16tpi LH. With a little fudge factor to ensure fitting the drill press spindle measurements.It still falls within the specifications for 15/16" though. I was just specific when I hit the tolerances.The 3 wire measurements were repeatable, so my assumption is if the nut I make threads on with acceptable fit, it'll fit on the drill press (and get red locktight).
I cleaned the threads up some more after the pic.Used the south bend 16 instead of the heavy 10.Over kill, but I like that lathe a lot
Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Looks great 👍 Nice lathe too.Dave
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
Had some time yesterday, made the test plug basically to 15/16" x 16tpi LH. With a little fudge factor to ensure fitting the drill press spindle measurements.It still falls within the specifications for 15/16" though. I was just specific when I hit the tolerances.The 3 wire measurements were repeatable, so my assumption is if the nut I make threads on with acceptable fit, it'll fit on the drill press (and get red locktight).
I cleaned the threads up some more after the pic.Used the south bend 16 instead of the heavy 10.Over kill, but I like that lathe a lot
Reply:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
Had some time yesterday, made the test plug basically to 15/16" x 16tpi LH. With a little fudge factor to ensure fitting the drill press spindle measurements.It still falls within the specifications for 15/16" though. I was just specific when I hit the tolerances.The 3 wire measurements were repeatable, so my assumption is if the nut I make threads on with acceptable fit, it'll fit on the drill press (and get red locktight).
I cleaned the threads up some more after the pic.Used the south bend 16 instead of the heavy 10.Over kill, but I like that lathe a lot
Reply:Nice work. Since you will find the specs for one nut, maybe it should be 2 thinner ones rather than one thick one? I would favor a nut and jamb nut over the red loctite since it has been apart before, and we both know who is likely to be the one fixing it if it has to come apart again...The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:
Originally Posted by M J D
That lathe looked a lot cleaner last time I saw it. Lol
Reply:If you need a manual or other data on your see.https://groups.io/g/SouthbendmanualDave
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
It pretty much stays dirty, even though I just cleaned it a few days ago
Reply:Forgot to update - yep, it's a nut
Basically 15/16" x 16 tpi LH, but changed slightly to fit the shaft measurements.
There was already a 3/8" end mill in the arbor, so I just went with it.Flats measure 1-1/4" minus a little for wrench clearance.
I made the nut extra long so I could trim to fit at school.Turned out that "too long" was good - gave me enough length to get a wrench on it easily.
I always bolt the drill presses sideways, use them on truck frames easier like that
Thanks much to all who helped me figure this out
Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Looks greatGood looking nut too.Dave
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
Forgot to update - yep, it's a nut
Basically 15/16" x 16 tpi LH, but changed slightly to fit the shaft measurements.
There was already a 3/8" end mill in the arbor, so I just went with it.Flats measure 1-1/4" minus a little for wrench clearance.
I made the nut extra long so I could trim to fit at school.Turned out that "too long" was good - gave me enough length to get a wrench on it easily.
I always bolt the drill presses sideways, use them on truck frames easier like that
Thanks much to all who helped me figure this out
Reply:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
Looks greatGood looking nut too.Dave
Reply:I can't remember seeing a threading tool with a back rake
I came across this https://sharpeninghandbook.info/MW-L...Threading.html , but I assume the tool holder is angled down when it's mounted so that the rake is eliminated. Or maybe the tool contacts the workpiece below the centerline.
Reply:I found another one. https://www.penntoolco.com/precise-h...nt=Catch%20AllI just can't wrap my pea brain around a rake on a form tool
It's driving me nutz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply:
They're popping up all over the place
How in the HELL do you get a proper thread form with one of these?????????????????????
I will be stressing over this for the entire day...........maybe the entire MONTH
It positively sucks to be me
They must make the damn things for a reason
Reply:I grinder all my cutter from blanks since 1960's Including drill bits. On a 6" grinder. Dave
Originally Posted by farmersammm
They're popping up all over the place
How in the HELL do you get a proper thread form with one of these?????????????????????
I will be stressing over this for the entire day...........maybe the entire MONTH
It positively sucks to be me
They must make the damn things for a reason
Reply:
Originally Posted by farmersammm
I can't remember seeing a threading tool with a back rake
I came across this https://sharpeninghandbook.info/MW-L...Threading.html , but I assume the tool holder is angled down when it's mounted so that the rake is eliminated. Or maybe the tool contacts the workpiece below the centerline.
Reply:
Originally Posted by farmersammm
They're popping up all over the place
How in the HELL do you get a proper thread form with one of these?????????????????????
I will be stressing over this for the entire day...........maybe the entire MONTH
It positively sucks to be me
They must make the damn things for a reason
Reply:
Originally Posted by Oldiron2
The OP's tool pictured in Post 30 appears to me to have no back rake near the tip, but was ground with a curve rather than flat rake surface, which might help with chip removal on some tenacious materials like copper alloys.
Grinding an actual 30* side angle gets trickier if also having back rake. Sometimes it is worth the trouble, usually not.I have an Aloris-type tool holder that holds the entire tool at an angle, giving it back rake...but again, that would require a threading tool to have slightly less side angle to give a 30* cut. I do use it for lots of normal cutting though.
Reply:
Originally Posted by farmersammm
I get my nomenclature all messed up on cutters. I'm not sure it's called a back rake.I'm referring to the angle on top of the cutting tool, which I assume is a positive rake, but I'm not sure which rake it's called.With that angle on top,, there's no way it's gonna do a proper thread form if the tool is centered on the workpiece. Root to crown height will be affected if you cut to the specified minor diameter.It might be a good grooving tool, but I don't see how it can cut an accurate thread form
Reply:
Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave
I don't know Sam, when viewed from the top, which is how the thread is engaged, it's still 60⁰.I didn't design the tool, nor do the math on it, but since I own it I am obligated to defend it to the death.
Reply:
Originally Posted by farmersammm
Hell, I dunno.................... I have two lists..............one is the stuff I know, the other is the stuff I don't know. The second list is longer
I guess it's made that way for a reason. And the nut fits, so it really doesn' t matter I guess. We could analyze it till the cows come home, and it probably doesn't matter.
Reply:I would call that top rake. My understanding is back rake would be cut on the top side of a turning or facing tool. For example, on a lh turning tool it would be lower on the Rh side as opposed to the lh cutting edge.
Reply:
Originally Posted by M J D
I would call that top rake. My understanding is back rake would be cut on the top side of a turning or facing tool. For example, on a lh turning tool it would be lower on the Rh side as opposed to the lh cutting edge . |
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发表于 2022-5-19 11:02:27