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I am trying to decide between a Hypertherm Powermax45 XP Plasma Cutter ($2150) or a Everlast PowerPlasma 60S ($879)? It will be used for home/hobby use. My dad taught me a long time ago that if you can afford it buy more machine that you would need now because you wind up growing out of one that you need now.JimLast edited by gorillamotors; 12-10-2019 at 12:45 PM.
Reply:hypertherm 100% neverlast boat anchor.... spend $2150 on equipment or waste $879 for chinesium junk...
Reply:Hypertherm all the way. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHTP Invertig 221H w/ CK20 water-cooled torch Lincoln PowerMig 210MP Hypertherm PowerMax 45XP Optrel Crystal 2.0
Reply:why is it just between those two? The cutmaster 60iX is arguably more powerful (7.5KW vs 6.5KW) for a lot less money. https://store.cyberweld.com/thermal-...-1-5630-1.htmlMiller Multimatic 255
Reply:
Originally Posted by Hobbytime
hypertherm 100% neverlast boat anchor.... spend $2150 on equipment or waste $879 for chinesium junk...
Reply:
Originally Posted by lugweld
Awful lot of CNC manufacturers would disagree with you since so many offer our units as a primary option these days.
Reply:I have not used the Everlast, but just about every other manufacturer. My preference is Hypertherm or Thermal Dynamics, they have been at it since the beginning of plasma. I own both brands, the plasma table I do like Hypertherm, but the Thermals can do just as well. For hand cutting I like the Thermal Dynmaics machines, the 60i has an incredible long arc. Consumables for both are easy to get and both have great warranties if ever needed.ESAB Rebels 215 and 235, ESAB HELIARC 281i, ESAB ET 301i, Hypertherm 85 and 45XP, Thermal Arc 185, TD 60i, HTP PRO PULSE 300
Reply:I would agree with Chris overall, but kind of like the CNC cutting on the Thermals, just a bit better for my use.. Although both leap frog each other depending what you are doing.. Really Easb's own torch on some of the Powercuts is my favorite machine torch setup. I really don't understand why Esab does not run the better cutting torch /consumable designs they own patents to? I know the one torch is the money maker in the line up, but not really the performance leader in any one area. maybe gouging on mid size units..I would look at the new Cutmaster 40i, might be a bargain in it's amp range.. The Everlast would be almost last on my list..The newer 60i X machine is quite a bit more powerful then stated above. It's getting real close to a hypertherm 65 then the 45XP.. Older model was right in between them, with the 3 phase unit a bit above the single phase unit..Last edited by Brand X; 12-10-2019 at 10:18 PM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:No, not just hobby, production guys.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Thanks for the advice but the question is now moot. I was driving around the other day and the owner of a machine shop put a sign outside of his business 'Going out of business sale'. I went in to investigate. The owner had a heart attack about a year ago and his doctor told him to basically stop working. He could not sell the business so he decided to sell bits and pieces at a time. I bought a brand new in the box not opened Hypertherm PowerMax 65 for $800. I was in heaven!!!Last edited by gorillamotors; 12-11-2019 at 06:49 PM.
Reply:Good deal, great machine overall. Had one, and it was flawless working on my CNC table..I was going to buy a 85, but for all practical uses. the 65 did all I needed. The 45 XP was just a little bit under powered when getting up to 1 inch edge cuts..Still, if you worked at it, nice cuts with it too..
Attached Images
Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:
Originally Posted by gorillamotors
Thanks for the advice but the question is now moot. I was driving around the other day and the owner of a machine shop put a sign outside of his business 'Going out of business sale'. I went in to investigate. The owner had a heart attack about a year ago and his doctor told him to basically stop working. He could not sell the business so he decided to sell bits and pieces at a time. I bought a brand new in the box not opened Hypertherm PowerMax 65 for $800. I was in heaven!!!
Reply:If the price at the point of purchase is your most important criteria.....then there are a lot of better choices than Everlast. The cost difference with the Powermax comes in time....depending on how much you use it. Compared to Everlast expect to use about 1/10th the consumables with the Powermax. Sure, the genuine Hypertherm parts cost more at the counter, however with the longer life (and less down time troubleshooting why the Everlast doesn't cut well) quickly makes the Hypertherm system the lower cost system to use. You also get the great Hypertherm factory support, and dealers with parts in stock around every corner. Oh, did I mention the Hypertherm units are designed and built in Hanover and Lebanon NH, USA by employees that own 100% of the company? Jim Colt
Originally Posted by gorillamotors
I am trying to decide between a Hypertherm Powermax45 XP Plasma Cutter ($2150) or a Everlast PowerPlasma 60S ($879)? It will be used for home/hobby use. My dad taught me a long time ago that if you can afford it buy more machine that you would need now because you wind up growing out of one that you need now.Jim
Reply:
Originally Posted by jimcolt
If the price at the point of purchase is your most important criteria.....then there are a lot of better choices than Everlast. The cost difference with the Powermax comes in time....depending on how much you use it. Compared to Everlast expect to use about 1/10th the consumables with the Powermax. Sure, the genuine Hypertherm parts cost more at the counter, however with the longer life (and less down time troubleshooting why the Everlast doesn't cut well) quickly makes the Hypertherm system the lower cost system to use. You also get the great Hypertherm factory support, and dealers with parts in stock around every corner. Oh, did I mention the Hypertherm units are designed and built in Hanover and Lebanon NH, USA by employees that own 100% of the company? Jim Colt
Reply:Main thing the guy got a great machine for the price of a Everlast.. The consumable life on a properly setup CNC table is excellent on a hypertherm.If they are not getting good life it's all about their setup. This is not hype, and real world experience. You just don't put Hypertherm, and Everlast in the same sentence unless you are trying to make a joke or something.. :Cut 50 maybe?
Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:Hypertherm systems have used high quality components sourced worldwide since 1968, no news there! Circuit boards and ALL electronics are designed engineered and built at Hypertherm facilities, as they always have been. There is a reason why Hypertherm plasma cutters are on the vast majority of cnc cutting tables worldwide (including in China), it is not the price. It is the performance, reliability and factory support.I think you misunderstood this statement that I made "If the price at the point of purchase is your most important criteria.....then there are a lot of better choices than Everlast". This means that if you are looking for the lowest cost plasma cutter....then there are dozens available at a lower price than Everlast. I have run a couple of Everlast models on CNC machines....am familiar with their capability. They have definitely improved over the models we used 4 or more years ago! Jim Colt
Originally Posted by lugweld
Ummm. Keep it real Jim. I have former Hypertherm customers converts to Everlast complain all the time that the "claimed" consumable life isn't as good as they claim and ours is better than they expected. Even so, if they come out 10x's the price its a wash. Ohh..and did you mention that your units are full of off shore components and that while they are built here, the majority of the electronics are sourced elsewhere, even the solenoids? Seems like Costa Rica comes to mind.There is a reason why market share is shifting. Just saying.
Reply:I have an Everlast 60 plasma. I have had it for 4 or 5 years ( not sure) it was a new model that had just come out. I do not use it on a CNC table but I have no complaints other than I wish Everlast made some scarfing tips for it. The only time I have ever had a problem was when I overlooked a kink in the air line one time and It would stop cutting . If you can afford the best for your hobby then buy it . Everlast has its place in the industry and I do not see them going away any time soon.
Reply:
Originally Posted by thegary
I have an Everlast 60 plasma. I have had it for 4 or 5 years ( not sure) it was a new model that had just come out. I do not use it on a CNC table but I have no complaints other than I wish Everlast made some scarfing tips for it. The only time I have ever had a problem was when I overlooked a kink in the air line one time and It would stop cutting . If you can afford the best for your hobby then buy it . Everlast has its place in the industry and I do not see them going away any time soon.
Reply:
Originally Posted by jimcolt
Couldn't agree more! By "scarfing".....do you mean gouging, such as removing a weld bead? I have seen some ads for Italian torches that use older style copies of (plunger blowback torch vs the newer "spring" blowback) Hypertherm torch designs.....and I suspect the older Powermax45 gouging parts will work. My only concern is if the Everlast power supplies will have issues with the higher load voltages required with a Hypertherm torch....as well as with the much higher load voltage required for gouging. Jim Colt
Reply:
Originally Posted by thegary
Yes gouging . I use mine to gouge with the standard tips and it works ok but it is hard on tips and insulators doing it. I have not had the need that often but when I do it saves a lot of time.
Reply:
Originally Posted by jimcolt
Couldn't agree more! By "scarfing".....do you mean gouging, such as removing a weld bead? I have seen some ads for Italian torches that use older style copies of (plunger blowback torch vs the newer "spring" blowback) Hypertherm torch designs.....and I suspect the older Powermax45 gouging parts will work. My only concern is if the Everlast power supplies will have issues with the higher load voltages required with a Hypertherm torch....as well as with the much higher load voltage required for gouging. Jim Colt
Reply:You heard wrong Lugweld! The torches that I have seen retrofitted are Techmo copies of the old plunger style torch, designed and patented by Hypertherm about 30 years ago. Jim
Originally Posted by lugweld
That's funny, Jim, I just remembered I heard from high up sources that Hypertherm is supposed to be paying royalties to the Italians you are speaking of....shhhhhh...keep it secret.If its been a few years, no doubt you haven't tried our latest products...and several customers have chose to refit their Everlast units with current HT torches for convenience sake and no issues. Our new units gouge btw.
Reply:neverlast are the democraps of the welding supply and hypertherm are the conservatives.......lots of fake news and and game playing on the side of neverlast and just facts and quality on the side of hypertherm....funny how different areas of life parallel....
Reply:Hobbytime. Come back to us when you have some real experience and knowledge of our product.Jim, You might want to check with your higher ups about where you are paying royalties to. And the techmo/Innotec torches have a patented start.It's funny you think hypertherm "invented" everything related to plasma and that everyone else copies you. Of course you would. But the company you are paying royalty to isn't techmo but it is Italian.Last edited by lugweld; 12-16-2019 at 11:07 AM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:"Jim, You might want to check with your higher ups about where you are paying royalties to." Dream on Lugweld! I am retired now, however during the 41 years working for Hypertherm I was on the new product design teams for almost every new product between February 1978 and December 2018. I am quite aware of all of the technology, patents, and details of every product in that time range! Jim ColtBy the way....it is interesting that Tecmo makes a torch that uses Hypertherm consumables (as a retrofit for Everlast, Razor and other imports) but does not make the consumables that fit (because they are covered by Hypertherm technology patents). Check out patents on Coaxial flow and conical flow for nozzle and shield designs....Last edited by jimcolt; 12-16-2019 at 11:30 AM.First let me say I am not getting into this, but want to clear up some mis-information. Also if it came down to it I would chooses a Hypertherm plasma cutter over others for a company that makes its money from it.First - "TEC,MO,Srl" and "Innotec" are not the same company.Second - "TEC,MO,Srl" makes consumable to fit all the Hypertherm torch's, except the spring back electrode that is still under patent.Third - The Chinese copy and make consumables for the Hypertherm torch's and don't care about a patent.Fourth - "TEC,MO,Srl" does not make Hypertherm torch's, but it does make them for other "name brand" plasma cutters.Last edited by mechanic416; 12-16-2019 at 01:22 PM.www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:All good info from Mechanic416. As always, my comments!-TEC Mo is careful about copying Hypertherm patents. They typically wait until they have expired before doing so. By the time Hypertherm patents expire, Hypertherm typically has developed newer, better technology that improves consumable life, cut quality, reliability.-YES, There are always Chinese copies. There were three large companies in China shut down in 2019 thanks to Hypertherm's pursuit of its intellectual property (patent protected technology that Hypertherm spend millions to develop. The owners and management from some of these companies are incarcerated. These companies make cheap copies (not understanding critical design factors or stackup tolerance issues) that can cause torch failure and poor cut quality and short life. Many purchasers think they are getting Hypertherm parts....as the packaging says they are Hypertherm. Hypertherm manufactures its consumables entirely in its state of the art New Hampshire, USA facilities to strict specifications.- Hypertherm manufactures and designs all of its own torches. Other major manufacturers "farm out" their torch design and manufacturing.Jim Colt
Originally Posted by mechanic416
First let me say I am not getting into this, but want to clear up some mis-information. Also if it came down to it I would chooses a Hypertherm plasma cutter over others for a company that makes its money from it.First - "TEC,MO,Srl" and "Innotec" are not the same company.Second - "TEC,MO,Srl" makes consumable to fit all the Hypertherm torch's, except the spring back electrode that is still under patent.Third - The Chinese copy and make consumables for the Hypertherm torch's and don't care about a patent.Fourth - "TEC,MO,Srl" does not make Hypertherm torch's, but it does make them for other "name brand" plasma cutters.
Reply:If its been a few years, no doubt you haven't tried our latest products...and several customers have chose to refit their Everlast units with current HT torches for convenience sake and no issues. Our new units gouge btw.[/QUOTE]You want cheap 100% import stick with the China stuff. You want Made in USA, by a employee owned company, has proven itself in the market for 40 years, by a Hypertherm .Attend Fabtech and walk around. Most tables have Hypertherm. I did see a everlast machine used as a door stop, actually two because it was double doors to an exhibit.Many here bought everlast but after using renamed Neverlast. They even posted negative comments on the everlast site only to find them deleted. You maybe able to con rookies but the professionals know betterMany newbies prefer a harbor freight brick and mortar store where you can bring in the machine. Return by mail is a inconvenience. I have not seen any everlast equipment sold by a welding supplier near me. That tells me something right there. Sorry,but everlast isnt for us professionals no matter how much BS they say. Youd definitely would sell them if you offer a Hypertherm free with everlasting purchase.
Reply:BD1,You are living in la-la land. Granted, our products may not be for you, but it's arrogant to speak for other professionals. You are way under-informed and just plain ignorant of the countless numbers of pros that use our units, snickering at you and the likes of you everyday on their way to the bank. Ours company is grassroots based in growth.Hypertherm may design (as we do much of the design work here in the US our selves and are based here) and "assemble" their product here, but they do not make the subcomponents that make up their product."Most tables" have Hypertherm. Sure. So? Point is? They've been in it longer. They should have most of the market by now. And they do a decent job of marketing...but you know when they are in trouble and they start throwing off on other upcoming products and acting like an internet "bully" ( words of several of my customers who decided to go with us, not mine) with a self-appointed watchdog of the company to troll internet threads anytime the word "plasma" is mentioned, trying to protect their "turf". A clear case of a company too big to fail.Posting negative comments do not get your comments deleted. Posting unfounded or "drive-by" by people who never had or owned Everlast posts do. There is a difference, and one that you fail, conveniently to point out.Last edited by lugweld; 12-18-2019 at 02:09 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:So, the original poster wanted a comparison specifically between a Hypertherm Powermax45XP and an Everlast PowerPlasma 60S. There were a number of replies that actually talked about these two plasma systems from a price and performance and a use related experience position, all pretty valuable when making a buying decision,Some buy with a high regard for the best price at the time of sale, some buy with less of a purchase price criteria, but more of a long term "cost of ownership" (better cut quality, longer consumable life, factory support, lower long term operating cost. There were a few replies along those lines!Ultimately the original poster ( gorillamotors ) found a killer deal on a pre-owned Powermax65, sounds like a great deal! Ultimately the system comparisons with any level of technical and experience related advice stopped, and the mud slinging and insults started rolling out! I don't think I have ever been called a "self appointed industry troll" ! Good one Lugweld, and it sure brings out your character. If we can't provide better technical reasons why a product is better.....then let's just start with childish insults aimed at the industry professionals that spend their free time offering advice on dozens of forums in regards to plasma cutting! If anyone has questions regarding plasma cutting applications....keep them coming! We'll work on ignoring those with less to offer.
Originally Posted by gorillamotors
I am trying to decide between a Hypertherm Powermax45 XP Plasma Cutter ($2150) or a Everlast PowerPlasma 60S ($879)? It will be used for home/hobby use. My dad taught me a long time ago that if you can afford it buy more machine that you would need now because you wind up growing out of one that you need now.Jim
Reply:
Originally Posted by lugweld
BD1,You are living in la-la land. Granted, our products may not be for you, but it's arrogant to speak for other professionals. You are way under-informed and just plain ignorant of the countless numbers of pros that use our units, snickering at you and the likes of you everyday on their way to the bank. Ours company is grassroots based in growth.Hypertherm may design (as we do much of the design work here in the US our selves and are based here) and "assemble" their product here, but they do not make the subcomponents that make up their product."Most tables" have Hypertherm. Sure. So? Point is? They've been in it longer. They should have most of the market by now. And they do a decent job of marketing...but you know when they are in trouble and they start throwing off on other upcoming products and acting like an internet "bully" ( words of several of my customers who decided to go with us, not mine) with a self-appointed watchdog of the company to troll internet threads anytime the word "plasma" is mentioned, trying to protect their "turf". A clear case of a company too big to fail.Posting negative comments do not get your comments deleted. Posting unfounded or "drive-by" by people who never had or owned Everlast posts do. There is a difference, and one that you fail, conveniently to point out.
Reply:Hobbytime:Not even close to being on the loosing end of the debate. And you are distorting the facts. Jim was the first to Attack Everlast outright. I don't even see how you can post with a straight face. Go back and read who interjected what when and where about another company. Jim's the culprit here, not me. I have every right to defend vigorously an attack from another company. So hold Jim to the same standard, instead of giving him a "good ole boy" slap on the back and a wink which is so often done here.To answer your questions:1) We do sell in Brick and Mortar. Not a lot, but we do all the time. But Brick and Mortar stores usually sell whoever offers the most "incentive" in the seller's paycheck. They tend to be dismissive unless "incentivized" by a company. Our business model is different, and follows the trend in sales where customers actually prefer buying online to save the middleman. Middle men cause you to pay more. period. We offer a product and philosophy where we offer the most we can at a lowest price, and offer direct interaction and input from the customer. We listen to and hear the customers on a daily basis telling us what they need and want, and the issues they have and build and design our product around that kind of input. Selling in Brick and Mortar robs companies of the chance to think outside the box and be light on their feet in response to customer's ever changing needs. Our record breaking, typically double digit, yearly sales figures prove out that we are on the right track with this.2) If you read the fine print on the warranty of Miller and Lincoln, they specify that the customer is responsible for shipping. Before you say, yeah, but they don't enforce that. Well, I can guarantee you that the guy out in the middle of Montana is going to pay for the shipping to repair to their unit on any brand. And when backed into a corner, the lawyer is going to refer the customer to said warranty terms. And for comparison, just to show how unjust and uninformed you are, here is a excerpt from Hypertherm's warranty on their page:Hypertherm provides repair, replacement or adjustment of the Product as the sole and exclusive remedy, if and only if the warranty set forth herein properly is invoked and applies. Hypertherm, at its sole option, shall repair, replace, or adjust, free of charge, any defective Products covered by this warranty which shall be returned with Hypertherms prior authorization (which shall not be unreasonably withheld), properly packed, to Hypertherms place of business in Hanover, New Hampshire, or to an authorized Hypertherm repair facility, all costs, insurance and freight pre paid by the customer. In Rural areas we have great growth and see brand loyalty where shipping is a moot point. Try going to your local welding supply store out in Montanna or Wyoming, or even Alaska. Or conside people who feel "intimidation" at local retail stores to buy this or that when they walk in, often times buying the wrong product all together based off a salesman's desire for greater commission. These guys in the local welding supplies are steel recommending green tungsten as the only way to weld Aluminum, even for inverters. Their last training seminar was in 1988...so its still good right? As far as "paying for shipping" another point of misinformation you are sharing, we offer a 30 day shipping policy, neither of which Miller, Lincoln, or Hypertherm does. We will cover shipping both ways during the first 30 days of operation if anything fails. This gets customers through the "infancy failure syndrome" time. And if a customer needs a unit shipped in under warranty, we can work with them to offset the cost of shipping if they call us and ask us to send them a shipping label, which will take advantage of our volume discount on shipping.3) We don't build here because we offer a great price structure. We are bringing down the prices on the name brands with competition and forcing them to offer better product. They know. Our price structure actually makes the growth sector of the welding economy possible. We offer an entry point to the market for welders who would otherwise struggle with a 6 or 10,000 price point for a couple of thousand dollars. The welding industry is diverse and large. The industry growth is in the artists, the startup welding shops,small business owners (and no, not just the multi-million a year small shops, but the guys who are inking out a living and trying to add to their bottom line) the auto customizing, and with companies seeking to vertically integrate their business. This may jump all over the ladder climbing, paying your "dues" crowd, but history is leaving that type mentality behind for a more pragmatic approach. Furthermore, Lincoln, Miller have long been importing, and offering less than full disclosure on the practice. Most all of Lincolns latest and hottest products are not made in the U.S. I think you should pose those questions to them, since they have a long, storied history, of claiming "made in the USA" before posing the question to us. We've never said we were made in the U.S.A. But what we do, is increase the capability of goods and services to be "Made in the USA" by offering a more affordable product, leaving funds left over for expansion, hiring extra employees. 4 or 5 units in a shop of a name brand, easily can pay the salary of an extra employee versus the difference in cost of 4 or 5 of our units....or leave room for much more equipment.4. If you go back a re-read the post, instead of trying to "guess" what you remember. I didn't repeat what was bad. I have defended our product and negative statements made about it from the beginning. And never mentioned Hypertherm before JIM COLT jumped in with his bully tactics (which backfire on him on this forum and another forum and results in sales for us many times because of it!) and tried to smear our consumable life...I merely pointed out...well on to answering #5.5. Consumable life tests have been done by nearly every manufacturer including us. If you look ESAB claims best consumable life too. I've seen other tests claiming this or that. Fact is, they are unreliable in real world conditions. I've used Hypertherm extensively in the real world. And when it comes down to it, whether Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, or Hypertherm, or us when you weigh consumable costs versus lifespan, it is pretty much a wash. Each company tests their consumables against other company's conumables, in a way that shows their consumable life the best. Just recently I sold a former Hypertherm customer a large 80. He was complaining about the awful cut life of his former HT product. He said he never could get consumable life out of his products. Yes, it is an anecdotal point of evidence, but he also complained, as many have, about the endless, confusing list of consumables that they offer, and the incredible expense he had to go through to maintain a supply of backup consumables to do what he wanted and it outstripped his budget and practical capability to keep up with them. But if you are in a brick and mortar type of distributing system, you get isolated from this type of input and you sit in your ivory tower and think about how to make it more complex and make "more" money off a product. People want simplicity and economy by and large. Anything more results in having to spend much extra in training costs and results in misunderstandings and downtime and general confusion. Here you have Hypertherm always pushing a "latest, greatest product" and touting the new life span and efficiency, while they throw their older product under the bus, and try to sell customers new stuff or new torches to make their older product work better...which just months before was the "latest, greatest". This is the surest way to drive costs of a final product up to the consumer, and a great way to loose market share. But what do we know? We just keep steadily improving a simple, affordable, easy to maintain, and operate product and keep increasing our market share.In short, our consumables have great life span. Do they last as long as Hypertherm, we've never claimed that. Are ours more affordable? Yes. Do they last 10 x's less that Hypertherm? Laughable at best. I don't think that was a respectable, nor accurate reply from Jim. Are ours far lower priced? Yes. When you factor cost and life span together, are ours as good as value? Yes, I believe so. Without double talk? Really? Jim throws around terms like " greater arc density" when they just mean they've jacked the voltage, trying to make it sound mysterious or something. They compare a 45 amp product to our 60 amp product, and fail to mention that they use a higher voltage than Miller or Lincoln or US. When it comes down to it, cutting is about Wattage. When you have a 45 amp cutter putting out more voltage (which we can do with a different torch if we want to, but we have safety concerns) you are going to get equivalent wattage of a 60 amp cutter with more traditional volt/amp relationships. VxA=W, right? So if they choose to compare only on amperage, but fail to mention the voltage increase? Double talk? Really, come on now. Hypertherm is "made and designed" in the USA? Anyone that wants to believe that will. Sure they are put together here. But simple things you'd think they'd build here like solenoid valves are farmed out to Costa Rica. Again, double talk. The way they want to talk about it, is that they are the only ones that do, and then mention "importers". Well by definition, HT is an importer of foreign product. We are based out of the USA, have multi-national distribution, and create initial design work right here in the USA. Yes, we build in China, using global components, including the same places HT gets their parts, some of which are coming out of the USA, and many of which are made by USA based companies...I have answered your questions. I've given you proof. I've mentioned some things that I know, and related information indirectly gleaned or directly stated from customers. Yes, I've mentioned what is "bad" about other companies only in the light to correct misinformation out there about ours in comparison. Now, if you want to know what is "better about Everlast", they are in my answers above...but I will summarize and add a couple more that did not fit in the replies. I've done this multiple times, yet people deny that but a search of this site will show everyone you stated about me/Everlast as not being true or biased, as so many customers who have contacted have done and stated themselves.1) We listen to our customers directly. We get daily input from them on our improvements and what they need, and not just at shows, or special events, or delayed routing up through the supply chain.2) We offer a 30 day satisfaction warranty, where we cover shipping both ways if a problem, or a return for your money back if it fails to meet your needs.3) We offer a far greater price point and lower access to the market for people needing to get into it, or looking to expand their current business with limited funds.4) We have a fully factory equipped with proper testing equipment, factory trained(with factory tooling and special equipment), highly qualified, and well stocked repair center outside of Knoxville TN. When a customer's unit is repaired there, they are more fully gone over, and load bank tested, upgraded in programming (if any exists) and boards etc. where there are issues than your average "repair" facility or local dealer with limited tools and knowledge of the product.5) We have a 5 year warranty. Yes, you ship to and from us after 30 days. Which is better than any other offer in the industry as stated on paper. One board failure on a HT will likely cause you to have to buy a new product. With a 3 year warranty, you'd still have 2 more years of coverage on ours. Sure you may say, but it doesn't need a longer warranty because they are so good. Well, you can find any number of threads on here, where their unit failed a little after the 3 year warranty called it quits. We've gotten many converts from that btw. All our details are clearly listed under the very visible "warranty" section on our site. We hide nothing and try to explain everything we can.6) Our products have shifted to Plug and Play design. This means that if a customer calls us in our free North American based tech support lines, we can usually diagnose the unit over the phone. And if the customer wishes, we can have the parts shipped direct to them, and can be installed with marginal delay, and faster service than you could if you took it to a local repair center.7) Our new plasma cutter line has been improved and converted to fully digital operation and control, which has yielded better consumable life and a slightly greater cut capacity in our testing. No new torches, no new stuff to buy. Just improvement based off of customer's needs and input.8) All our units are CNC capable with both a CNC switch on the front and a CNC socket on the back. 9) Our units now have a high visibility digital display for air pressure, Amps, and post flow time for our PowerPlasma 52i, 62i, 82i and 100i units.10) Speaking of new units, we've long had a full range from 50 to 100 Amps, which most companies stop at 40 or 60 amps these days. 11) If you compare an average price on a HT 45 XT of the stated price of around 2000, versus, our current price of 900 (roughly on the 62i) that we have now, (even if you buy our consumable kits at full price without a unit purchase) that is roughly 600 consumables you can buy for our unit before you can purchase the HT45 without a consumable kit. Thats including cups, nozzles, electrodes! Using Jim's math of only using 60 consumables for our 600, that would cost you at least 567.00. But this is clearly an overstatement, especially considering our new product. But lets say that ours last only 1/2 the amount of time of a hypertherm, that would mean 300 consumables for our 600.00, which is closer 2800.00 for HT consumables during that same time period ( and twice the operation cost of ours) And that's just the standard ones...not to mention all the other ones they want to pile on you. No doubt the HT consumables do last longer. But considering the endless and confusing number that you need, that even balloons further in figures. Yes, tecmo and innotec have other consumables for specialty applications and there are US torch distributors for these units that offer them at a lower cost than we do even! 1/2 the time? Lets say that sounds more believable/ reasonable, though it is better than that in real world testing and customer (and mine) practical experience. For 1271.00 worth of current price difference between what the OP stated as the 45 XP and our (now current) PP62i, the math just doesn't seem to add up at all on the consumables and seems to be heavily in our favor. But you know what, let's just call it a wash, like I did before, conservatively. Really, it is a case of the "Emperor" has no clothes in the case of Jim and Hypertherm. Everyone is to embarrassed to say anything but the new kid on the block.12) The great majority of our plasma market is small businesses and part time, or startups/expansions. We are not seeking huge industrial manufacturers with 400 amp plasma systems. We'll leave that for others. We have a fair amount of home owners that buy our Super series plasma and our Powerplasma 50/52 units. These perform well and the PowerPlasma 50/52i can handle daily fabrication/cutting chores that 50% or so of our customers have. But we do sell a good many 80 and 100 amp units these days because well, for 1500.00, you can buy twice the cutting power of an HT 45, roughly...or 1/2 price of a HT 105.Last edited by lugweld; 12-19-2019 at 01:43 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I do appreciate the reply and will read it through....
Reply:For those looking for an alternative, the HTP Microcut 875SC is a great machine. Rated IP23, dutycycle is 100% at 45 amps (PM65 is 100% @ 46 amps PM45 is 100% @ 32 amps) Of course I am biased..Jeff NolandDrive a LincolnDrink a MillerWeld with an HTP
Reply:Finally Lugweld
..you are on the right track here to answer the original posters questions about comparing specific systems. You are wrong is suggesting I attacked you.....look back at the posts and you will see I did not in any way. I compared different capabilities and features (gouging was one, price was another, load voltage and torch design, in house manufacturing, etc. That was product comparisons which the poster asked for. No attack on you whatsoever. Good response on most things, though backing it up with some type of data helps! You are on the right track towards providing product info....it works so much better than trying to bash those that have a lot of industry experience. Keep in mind that I do not collect a paycheck from Hypertherm since my retirement last December 28th, however I do stay active in the industry working with many plasma cutting OEM's, distributors and end users. Jim Colt
Reply:Jim, good job of back tracking. But the information is there still for all to read what you posted. I didn't say you attacked me personally, but as someone who represents the brand, you attacked Everlast and named them by name, creating negative comments rather than simply promoting Hyptherm's strengths. You skated through by using " fast and loose figures" figures of 10x's longer. You were using old data, not up to date as well, I suspect many years old. Stating there are better choices than Everlast for cheaper. etc...rather than promoting the HT product is not relevant to the O.P. either, and you initiated all of this... Trying to side step and pass the buck is not becoming of you or helpful to your cause. Saying you no longer receive a paycheck, and citing vague current relationships with many plasma cutting OEM's and distributors simply isn't germaine to the argument. If you don't receive a check from HT, then you still are on the face of many videos, blogs etc. For many, you are still Hypertherm, regardless. But to put yourself in a position of saying I am bashing "those (ie. you) that have a lot of industry experience", is arrogant and simply self promoting. I could cite big goofs in the past on your part like when you overstated the capability of Plama vs. Oxy Acetylene, and one of the members here showed you wrong, and you were for a lack of words and back tracked all over that one when the evidence was presented.Oh well.Here is a pic (however unflattering until the photoshoot takes place) of the PowerPlasma 82i currently on sale for Christmas for 1000.00 plus shipping.
Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I like people who are passionate about their products, in the welding and fabricating sector you will find the most die hard of those individuals. I think the end users benefit from the continued dedication and information being supplied by representatives, former or current, even if sometimes it rubs somebody the wrong way, forums can do that.I have been very lucky to meet a lot of these people at trade shows, and learned something from everyone of them regardless if they were trying to sell me the latest and greatest magical box or contraption. Now the only way to do this right is to have a shootout, in the real world. I am sure there is money in the corporate budgets to sponsor a plasma "put up or shut up". A neutral testing location for CNC and hand cutting under strict criteria to keep it fair, yes they would be pushed to the limit of what the manufacturer has specified. Would have to find comparable machines in say the 45-60 amp range. I can think of a few people on this forum who have enough experience and years behind them with plasma that would attend and conduct these tests, not some paid Youtube junkies. The companies can of course send their best representatives also, to watch and take notes. All the criteria would be considered for final evaluation in differnt categories. Somethig to think about, WW and PlamaSpider sites probably make up the largest target audience in the USA.Last edited by Jawslandshark; 12-20-2019 at 02:27 AM.ESAB Rebels 215 and 235, ESAB HELIARC 281i, ESAB ET 301i, Hypertherm 85 and 45XP, Thermal Arc 185, TD 60i, HTP PRO PULSE 300
Reply:Many members here HAVE posted negative comments on everlasting , issues, and complaints on the everlast site. I'm not sure if there still available in searching. They may have been lost when Weldingweb was down for months. I don't know any Miller customer that paid warranty shipping. Any issue within warranted period take machine to welding supplier where purchased. I guess if you're out in no man's land you may have to ship. Sorry, but no way would I invest dollars on any online or mail order purchase. When welding suppliers start carrying everlast machines, they may have a chance in the industry. They need to be prove themselves first. You buy what you can afford. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Over the years I have had the opportunity to use a variety of different brand air plasma cutters on my home CNC machine (which is a 17 year old PlasmaCam DHC2 using Design Edge software and advanced machine and height control upgrades). I have used (of course) Hypertherm systems including the Powermax1000, 30XP, 45, 45XP, 65 and 85 , Thermal Dynamics, Esab, Lincoln, Everlast, Razorcut as well as a few of the extreme low cost plasma's.This was done on my own time with "borrowed" plasmas. The reason was so that I could understand the capabilities of each, especially with verifying the manufacturers cut specs (if any....many of the machines had virtually no cut charts, and vague specs about duty cycle). By understanding the capabilities I could then help owners of specific machines get the most in cut quality with the machines and brands that they bought. I get generic questions often about how to make other brands cut as well as possible on a variety of cnc machines. The PlasmaCam is an ideal test bed as it has a universal 4 wire interface that allows the use of any non-high frequency start plasma, and it has both hand and machine torch holders as well an excellent height control that is adaptable to any plasma.So...if anyone is interested in seeing what a particular machine will do on the same test bed that I have used for a long time....send me the plasma (I will return it when done!) and we ultimately could develop some good data and expectations all on the same platform. Of course with my background (41 years at Hypertherm, now retired), I could likely be accused of playing favorites.....and I am not the least bit interested in arguing that point anymore. I am interested in helping sort out the capabilities of the many different choices of plasma cutters out in the market today for use on light industrial and entry level cnc tables. Jim Colt
Originally Posted by Jawslandshark
I like people who are passionate about their products, in the welding and fabricating sector you will find the most die hard of those individuals. I think the end users benefit from the continued dedication and information being supplied by representatives, former or current, even if sometimes it rubs somebody the wrong way, forums can do that.I have been very lucky to meet a lot of these people at trade shows, and learned something from everyone of them regardless if they were trying to sell me the latest and greatest magical box or contraption. Now the only way to do this right is to have a shootout, in the real world. I am sure there is money in the corporate budgets to sponsor a plasma "put up or shut up". A neutral testing location for CNC and hand cutting under strict criteria to keep it fair, yes they would be pushed to the limit of what the manufacturer has specified. Would have to find comparable machines in say the 45-60 amp range. I can think of a few people on this forum who have enough experience and years behind them with plasma that would attend and conduct these tests, not some paid Youtube junkies. The companies can of course send their best representatives also, to watch and take notes. All the criteria would be considered for final evaluation in differnt categories. Somethig to think about, WW and PlamaSpider sites probably make up the largest target audience in the USA.
Reply:Jim Colt would be a great neighbor to have.
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Reply:I don't have a dog in this fight but I did own a Power Max 45 a while back that blew up a month or so out of warranty. Hypertherm would not help. Had I owned a different brand It would have been covered. Instead I had to pay out another $1800 for a different brand with a longer warranty.Thermal Arc 320SP ( Lorch )Cobra PythonsThermal Arc 300 AC/DC ( Sanrex )ESAB 301i AC/DC ( Lorch )Thermal Arc 161STL ( WTL )Thermal Arc 190S ( Sanrex )Cut Master 82, 42. Cut45 ( WTL )Victor Gas Apps.Boxes and boxes of welding crap.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Rondo
I don't have a dog in this fight but I did own a Power Max 45 a while back that blew up a month or so out of warranty. Hypertherm would not help. Had I owned a different brand It would have been covered. Instead I had to pay out another $1800 for a different brand with a longer warranty.
Reply:
Originally Posted by kize
Are you telling us that " Had I owned a different brand It would have been covered." if it was out of warranty as well ?? Doubtful. No matter what the brand--- no warranty means " no warranty". I looked at quite a few plasmas when i was shopping for one. What sold me was an American employee owned company, making american products. And supporting the American way of life. Yeah it was more money. But it was important enough to me to pay for it. All politics/ arguments aside, this Country needs to get back on track manufacturing its own products.
Reply:^^ Now that there is funny
Reply:
Originally Posted by Rondo
Do your homework. Hypertherm 3 year warranty. Several others offer more than 3 years of warranty. I've sold Plasma systems since the 80's and have worked for several manufacturers. I think I know what I'm talking about.
Reply:There are cases when the company will help after the warranty is up.. Friend got some great help from the guys at Lincoln advance process tech. It was my old machine C-300 powerwave, and they took care of him.. He has owned Lincoln/Esab/Miller/Thermal-arc/Hypertherm/Thermal Dynamics/Hobart, and no other company has stepped up to the plate like the Lincoln advanced process guys.. They did not have too,but they did.. In fact, that also sent him a board to fix his PM-350 he bought for $100.00 I have always received excellent help there too.. Still would not buy their Plasma cutter, unless it's a deal..
Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:
Originally Posted by Rondo
Do your homework. Hypertherm 3 year warranty. Several others offer more than 3 years of warranty. I've sold Plasma systems since the 80's and have worked for several manufacturers. I think I know what I'm talking about.
Reply:
Originally Posted by kize
Are you telling us that " Had I owned a different brand It would have been covered." if it was out of warranty as well ?? Doubtful. No matter what the brand--- no warranty means " no warranty". I looked at quite a few plasmas when i was shopping for one. What sold me was an American employee owned company, making american products. And supporting the American way of life. Yeah it was more money. But it was important enough to me to pay for it. All politics/ arguments aside, this Country needs to get back on track manufacturing its own products.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Hobbytime
as said before, a warranty is only as good as the company backing it and actually fixing it under warranty..you could tell me some chicom seller has a 10 year warranty, but if for years you read about all kinds of problems getting warranty work done, and yes thats the company with the 5 year warranty and green paint....the amount of complaints are high enough to get attention, when a company, as Luggy stated, has been around MUCH longer and sells MUCH more equipment has very few complaints, yes every company will have failures and complaints..you have to take that into consideration that the warranty isnt worth the paper its written on.....
Reply:
Originally Posted by lugweld
Again with the "chicom" label crap. It's only to smear and trying to mislead. We are based in the USA, design and support from the USA. We build in China with label brands from the USA, Europe, China, Taiwan, Japan and elsewhere. The only difference is where the stuff is put together for the most part. Our company supports an ever growing number of employees right here in the USA. Yes, there are complaints. But most people often forget to look for the complaints that are plastered all over like the above individual that had a unit fail after 3 years with HT. This is common, not isolated, but people seem to sweep it under the rug, or dismiss it, or conveniently forget about those complaints. But they are all over too. When we deal and market online, it is natural to have a higher level of complaints issued online. Where else would they? You are completely missing the point and the context of the complaints. If you see one complaint online with a company that largely markets locally, there are many, many more complaints that don't go online. But when you see complaints online about a company that markets and sells direct, online there are far fewer that don't go remarked about because people buying online, are far more accustomed to complaining than their local purchasing counter parts.Our factory repair center is right outside of Knoxville TN and has been for about the past 5 years. The warranty is worth exactly 5 years. We honor and follow the terms of our warranty. Period. In times past, warranty was slow, but it was honored. Now, when you can (besides having a fully staffed, equipped repair facility capable of handling the warranty load) 1) Get free technical help and diagnosis over the phone 9-5 Eastern 2) Email, and receive help via forums and social media 3) Have a unit that is plug and play that can if needed be repaired in a few minutes by most customers for most repairs if they want the fastest and easiest route to repair 4) Provide assistance in getting things shipped, customers who don't receive warranty support or get their product warrantied do not usually try or aren't following the simple process to initiate and receive warranty help. Complaints stem from expectations that aren't valid or from customers trying to "circumvent" the simple, but required process. |
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发表于 2021-9-1 23:19:27