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I'm trying my Titanium flux 125 out on some 1/4" material. I welded up a filet and then put it in the press. It broke fairly easily, but the break seems to be in the metal and not the weld. I maxed the machine out with .030 NR-211. It seemed to burn in nice and hot. What are your opinions on this failure? Metal or the weld? Before I get told to buy a bigger welder. I have several already. I'm just trying to find the limits of this little guy.
Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkLincoln Ranger 305gMiller X-Treme 8VS Suitcase FeederLincoln Powermig 210 MPLincoln AC225 TombstoneAmico MMA-160Titanium Easy Flux 125A pile of grinders.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Mark_D
I'm trying my Titanium flux 125 out on some 1/4" material. I welded up a filet and then put it in the press. It broke fairly easily, but the break seems to be in the metal and not the weld. I maxed the machine out with .030 NR-211. It seemed to burn in nice and hot. What are your opinions on this failure? Metal or the weld? Before I get told to buy a bigger welder. I have several already. I'm just trying to find the limits of this little guy.
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Reply:I can confirm this is mild steel.Sent from my SM-T878U using TapatalkLincoln Ranger 305gMiller X-Treme 8VS Suitcase FeederLincoln Powermig 210 MPLincoln AC225 TombstoneAmico MMA-160Titanium Easy Flux 125A pile of grinders.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Mark_D
I can confirm this is mild steel.Sent from my SM-T878U using Tapatalk
Reply:Because I was the one that cut it off. I was literally there.Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkLincoln Ranger 305gMiller X-Treme 8VS Suitcase FeederLincoln Powermig 210 MPLincoln AC225 TombstoneAmico MMA-160Titanium Easy Flux 125A pile of grinders.
Reply:Not fighting with you, just saying I have never seen mild break like that unless it was flex fatigue. Do you have more to try with a 7018 or ERS 70 wire? I once had a guy give me a bunch of random plates that turned out to be cast iron. I sold it off to guys that wanted it for camping griddles.
Reply:It came out of an old piece of angle. I've got some fresh 2"x1/4" flat stock I'm going to try next. If I can get the flux core welder to break I'm going to then do a comparison with 7018 as well as solid wire mig. My gut feeling is that this little flux core unit is going to hold it together pretty well. The t11 wire will probably be the weak point.Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkLincoln Ranger 305gMiller X-Treme 8VS Suitcase FeederLincoln Powermig 210 MPLincoln AC225 TombstoneAmico MMA-160Titanium Easy Flux 125A pile of grinders.
Reply:Mark, I vote metal failure, not weld. Grab a different piece of steel, run a few more tests and see if same results. Post pictures.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:the break started at that huge inviting crater, then went to the side of weld , and then ran even farther/away form welds side than id expect for mild. looking at it, if noone hadnt said anything, my guess would be it wasnt mild also . it may be, but i think something else might be going onLast edited by 123weld; 07-20-2021 at 10:10 PM.
Reply:I'd do some more test's as well, that is a failure in the base metal for sure, but its hard to tell if its due to embrittlement of the HAZ from the welding or not but that is the direction I'd be going in looking at how it seems to have failed, it doesn't look like the base metal yielded much at all before breaking which is what I'd expect to see on mild steel.maybe do some more tests, do one with 7018 and one with solid wire with the 210MP and a few more with the NR211MP and compare side by side and see, really you want to try and get the weld to break in the meld zon so you can get a peak at the root, I might even do a cut and etch as well if you have something to develop it with, naval jelly or pickling paste for stainless or something similar, i've heard even oven cleaner can work okay, just takes a while to show up the weld nugget.
Reply:One thing I didn't mention is that the metal was still warm when I put it in the press. Would this have a huge effect on the test?Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkLincoln Ranger 305gMiller X-Treme 8VS Suitcase FeederLincoln Powermig 210 MPLincoln AC225 TombstoneAmico MMA-160Titanium Easy Flux 125A pile of grinders.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Mark_D
One thing I didn't mention is that the metal was still warm when I put it in the press. Would this have a huge effect on the test?Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by ttoks
not massively, if anything it would have encouraged the base metal to bend even more.you'd be surprised by the T-11 wire as well, its not weaker per say than 7018, the tensile strength is actually higher, but it is more brittle and more prone to cracking, so for a test like this where it's one loading (rather than cyclical loading) i wouldn't expect it to do any worth than 7018.It will be more sensitive to stress riser's like that nice crater you left on the first test though because it's more brittle, so keep that in mind on the next one.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Mark_D
I knew someone was going to call me out on the crater. LolSent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
Reply:On a bright note this little inverter flux machine seems to be burning in hot. I do believe this will be my new go-to machine for small repairs. It runs so smooth with .030 NR-211MP. Almost no spatter at all.Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkLincoln Ranger 305gMiller X-Treme 8VS Suitcase FeederLincoln Powermig 210 MPLincoln AC225 TombstoneAmico MMA-160Titanium Easy Flux 125A pile of grinders.
Reply:Everyone will a comment. The Good the Bad and the Ugly.You doing a good job by testing. If read some of my post's you find a 120 volt welder not up to the job.I have own a Miller and a Chinese 120 volt welder and want to launch both to space. Then sold the welders to the next #%#.Dave
Originally Posted by Mark_D
I'm trying my Titanium flux 125 out on some 1/4" material. I welded up a filet and then put it in the press. It broke fairly easily, but the break seems to be in the metal and not the weld. I maxed the machine out with .030 NR-211. It seemed to burn in nice and hot. What are your opinions on this failure? Metal or the weld? Before I get told to buy a bigger welder. I have several already. I'm just trying to find the limits of this little guy.
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Reply:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
Everyone will a comment. The Good the Bad and the Ugly.You doing a good job by testing. If read some post you find a 120 volt welder is a 120 volt welder just not up to the job.Dave
Reply:
Originally Posted by Mark_D
That's why I added the disclaimer. I have a 300 amp engine drive
Reply:
Originally Posted by Mark_D
One thing I didn't mention is that the metal was still warm when I put it in the press. Would this have a huge effect on the test?Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
Reply:If you are doing research this test would be inconclusive Try a different.piece of metal. Did you quench it is dry ice? Looks suspect. Present another example. How old is the Angle. Many years ago i did a repair on a metal deck. The deck girder was broken similar to that. No sign of bending just a glass like break in a 12 inch wide C-channel. It was some version of cast. Weld looks fine? Try different material. Do spark test and compare to new mild steel.The weld looks alright. But you have not tested it.Last edited by tapwelder; 07-21-2021 at 06:16 PM.
Reply:I had a century 110 that ran awesomely on 120v and 30 amp input. What amperage input are you using?
Reply:
Originally Posted by tapwelder
I had a century 110 that ran awesomely on 120v and 30 amp input. What amperage input are you using?
Reply:I redid the test with a fresh piece of 3/16" flat stock. I thought I had 1/4 but it was only 3/16". I allowed it to cool about 10 minutes before putting it in the press. Same result....the metal broke fairly easily but the weld held. I'm very confused by this. I don't know why this metal is so brittle.
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Reply:Nothing wrong with that weld. Get real steel and bend towards the weld. That way is should break through the weld and you can examine the penetration. If it bends all the way you have an excellent weld. That is how AWS certified weld inspectors do a bend/break test.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:It should also be noted I had a failure of some leaf spring shackle mounts on a trailer several years ago. Same story, the weld held but the shackle mount ripped out just like this. Could this be something the flux core wire is doing to the steel?Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkLincoln Ranger 305gMiller X-Treme 8VS Suitcase FeederLincoln Powermig 210 MPLincoln AC225 TombstoneAmico MMA-160Titanium Easy Flux 125A pile of grinders.
Originally Posted by shovelon
Nothing wrong with that weld. Get real steel and bend towards the weld. That way is should break through the weld and you can examine the penetration. If it bends all the way you have an excellent weld. That is how AWS certified weld inspectors do a bend/break test.
Reply:Try heating the next plate to dull red and let cool slowly, after cool to the touch weld and let cool to the touch and bend toward the weld. Breakage is happening in the heat affected zone. Research heat affected zone weld failures.ChrisAuction Addict
Reply:Just braze it,lol. That break look like a shear. With the Hf bender if you use their 90 degree bend attachment on 1/8 material, It will leave it brittle and a shot with a hammer while install brackets in under ground ventilation ductwork will cause a break like that. Perhap, that is another reason to bend it the other way. Cut it apart, let us see the root.
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Reply:Ok I did another test on the 3/16. Welded on one side and bent towards the weld in the press. It was folded almost flat before it finally let go. What do you experienced guys make of this bend?
Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkLincoln Ranger 305gMiller X-Treme 8VS Suitcase FeederLincoln Powermig 210 MPLincoln AC225 TombstoneAmico MMA-160Titanium Easy Flux 125A pile of grinders.
Reply:Tomorrow I'm going to follow up with a hardwire MIG test as well as a 7018 test on the same material. I will post the results. I may also do a test with some .030 Hobart 21B Fabshield. I'm not overly impressed with the way the NR211 broke in the bend test.Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkLincoln Ranger 305gMiller X-Treme 8VS Suitcase FeederLincoln Powermig 210 MPLincoln AC225 TombstoneAmico MMA-160Titanium Easy Flux 125A pile of grinders.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Mark_D
Ok I did another test on the 3/16. Welded on one side and bent towards the weld in the press. It was folded almost flat before it finally let go. What do you experienced guys make of this bend?
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Reply:That's how it should break, in the middle of the weld, but that isn't the best weld with porosity and the huge crater. The problem with using a press is it can be hard tell how much stronger or weaker different filler metals are. 7018 and Mig will often fold over and have to hit or twisted back the other way.I don't think the 1st break was a HAZ break. I think the piece was too hot and not mild steel.
Reply:That looks more like it should. Work on the craters as that is where the break is starting.
Reply:Here is a test for the .035 mig wire with 75/25 gas. I know the weld looks cold. It was at 21v and 350 ipm. It bent all the way over without breaking.
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Reply:Here is the test for the 7018. 3/32" rod straight out of the oven at 80 Amps. It broke as easily as the NR-211 did. Surprised me. MIG wins so far. In the next day or two I will do one testing Hobart 21b wire.
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Reply:The last weld has some strength but would fail a break test. The way a single sided fillet weld is fit creates a natural crack on the opposite side in the middle of the weld/plates. The break should be for the most part in the middle of the weld. It looks like there is slight undercut along the top edge that is likely where the crack originated. Another factor in doing a break test is the weld needs to be the same size as the 2 plates that are welded, IE/ 1/4" plate requires a 1/4" fillet or 3/16" plate requires a 3/16" fillet. Here is one of CEP's break tests which I asked if he could do. It is slightly undersize but shows how it should break. It also clearly demonstrates why we are not fans of 6013. When I have more time I'll try to find his other break tests. 7018 took 18 blows out of the package to break and 22 I think out of a rod oven. It also had to be beat back the other way to break off.https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/c...oolt&th=293747
Reply:Ok I tested some .030 Hobart 21b tonight. I didn't get any pictures, but it broke as easily if not a bit sooner than the NR211 did. Solid wire MIG easily wins this competition over flux core and 7018. I was a bit surprised at the results.Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkLast edited by Mark_D; 07-25-2021 at 01:30 AM.Lincoln Ranger 305gMiller X-Treme 8VS Suitcase FeederLincoln Powermig 210 MPLincoln AC225 TombstoneAmico MMA-160Titanium Easy Flux 125A pile of grinders.
Reply:On another note, the Hobart 21b seems to be a bit more forceful and maybe not quite as smooth as the Lincoln NR211 on this machine. However both are very smooth with almost zero spatter. The Hobart seems to like to run at a little bit lower voltage. Going forward I will probably buy the Hobart since it comes in 2lb spools vs the Lincoln's 1lb spools (this machine does not accept 10lb spools). I'm thoroughly impressed with this 110v inverter flux machine and going forth it is going to get a lot of use. I have a feeling it may be the most used repair machine in the shop.Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkLast edited by Mark_D; 07-25-2021 at 01:45 AM.Lincoln Ranger 305gMiller X-Treme 8VS Suitcase FeederLincoln Powermig 210 MPLincoln AC225 TombstoneAmico MMA-160Titanium Easy Flux 125A pile of grinders.
Reply:After a bit of thought, I've decided I'm going to continue this break test with some 7014 and 6011. Results to follow soon.Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkLincoln Ranger 305gMiller X-Treme 8VS Suitcase FeederLincoln Powermig 210 MPLincoln AC225 TombstoneAmico MMA-160Titanium Easy Flux 125A pile of grinders.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Mark_D
On another note, the Hobart 21b seems to be a bit more forceful and maybe not quite as smooth as the Lincoln NR211 on this machine. However both are very smooth with almost zero spatter. The Hobart seems to like to run at a little bit lower voltage. Going forward I will probably buy the Hobart since it comes in 2lb spools vs the Lincoln's 1lb spools (this machine does not accept 10lb spools). I'm thoroughly impressed with this 110v inverter flux machine and going forth it is going to get a lot of use. I have a feeling it may be the most used repair machine in the shop.Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by ttoks
it seems crazy to me to be looking at a machine that wont accept 10lb spools, I just went from one machine to another partially because I was limited in what wires I could get in a 10 LB spool, I needed to be able to use 33 lb spools.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Mark_D
I originally thought this would be a bad thing. However, this is not a machine that I'm going to use for large scale fabrication. Using the small spools will force me to keep fresh wire in the machine and avoid the problems of humidity-soaked wire.Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by ttoks
i couldn't find a reliable supply of .035 dual shield
Reply:
Originally Posted by ttoks
I more so mean variety of wires available, i couldn't find a reliable supply of .035 dual shield, and couldn't find -8 self shield at all in 10 lb spools, I'd imagine going down more to 1-2lb spools would make that problem worse.For what your using this for it makes perfect sense, if I could buy HF machines here is have one for the price they're asking for the convenience of a tiny mig without gas.
Reply:A-36 will yield before the weld yields. If it yields outside of the weld zone, your weld was fine. In this case, it yielded above the upper weld toe, so it's simply a matter of the steel yielding. 36Ksi steel vs. 70Ksi weld.
Reply:Aw Hell...........so many pics, I'm not sure which set I responded to
Reply:In order to do a proper break test, you have make sure the weld is the proper size to match the plate. You can't just do a random weld and break it. The example I showed of CEP's break test is how it is done. His 6013 test was just slightly under size (1/32") but still broke in the weld. It's still a crude way of testing weld strength but he broke all his tests with the same hammer where he could better judge how strong each weld was. In a press you don't have much way of knowing how much stronger or weaker each weld/rod is. All of CEP's break tests broke primarily in the weld.Last edited by Welder Dave; 07-27-2021 at 12:13 PM.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Mark_D
I can confirm this is mild steel.
Reply:It's breaking in the HAZ.-RuarkLincoln 3200HDHobart Stickmate LX235TWECO Fabricator 211i |
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发表于 2021-9-1 23:15:56