New to Arc Welding

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IntroLong-time woodworker learning to stick weld.  Borrowed an old ArcPro 175 (AC/DC) from a friend who's in the welding business. He seems to have 2 or 3 of everything plus all the gear on his truck!  Ran a 240V, 50A circuit in the garage.  Bought some Lincoln rods: Fleetweld 180 E6011, Fleetweld 37 6013, and 7018AC rods.  Have been puttering around with angle iron, steel plate, and a BBQ/smoker (3/8" plate and pipe). Great fun...but frustrating at times. Have welded (tried!) flat horiz and uphill/downhill vertical.  Have tried AC and DC with all rods, varying amperage while practicing. I like the continuous amp control on his welder, but maybe it's more comfort than need. I doubt it's calibrated so it's probably a matter of feel and knowing your machine.  Haven't decided if I like DC over AC. It seems if I find the right amperage, AC works just as well as DC, although DC is sometimes a bit "smoother,"  less drama if you know what I mean. As for the rods, the 6011 is noisy with lots of splatter, but deep penetration. I can't control it running a vertical bead. Looks lousy.  6013 is smooth, AC or DC, and even worked well on downhill vertical welding (which I believe it's meant to do). Great rod...seems to be very forgiving for a novice.  Less experience w/ the 7018, but I like it. Great looking beads as long as I go slow. Future PlansI don't ever see myself moving beyond mild steel.  May make a few smokers   for friends/family and do some minor repair around the place. No trailers. No auto body or auto frame work. Nothing that anyone's life must depend on.QuestionsIt's time to buy (230 V).  Have been reading all the blogs and asked my welder buddy for advice (AC/DC was his advice...more choice if I get serious). I've looked at Lincoln, Hobart, and Miller. Stick welders I've researched: Lincoln AC225 & AC/DC 225/125Miller Thunderbolt XL300 & Thunderbolt XL300/225 AC/DCHobart Stickmate 325AC/160DC & Stickmate 205V AC AC or AC/DC: AC is cheaper, and I really haven't seen the benefit of using DC. (Am I being cheap?)Continuous amp control: Miller and Hobart have it and Lincoln does not (except for the AC 225C model). Is it worth it? Do I really need it once I learn how to weld? I can see the advantages of changing by 5-10A, but maybe it's more technique dependent.  Could I could have the same effect by lengthening or shortening the arc?Quality:  How do Lincoln, Hobart, and Miller really stack up.  Equivalent internal components?  Is one manufacturer more conservative than the others with regard to the specs. Duty Cycle:  I've found I hate to wait on the welder to cool down.  Doesn't happen often, but occasionally, especially if I crank up the amps.  Hobart and Miller advertise a 100% duty cycle at 100A AC.  Lincoln 70A for 1 hr. If I take the square root of the duty cycle and multiply it by the max amperage of the unit, I should get the amperage at which I can run continuously, right? So, for the Lincoln AC 225 (20% @ 225A AC), I should be able to run at 100A, just like the Miller. Is Lincoln just more conservative or do its components heat up faster (poorer cooling?)Many thanks for any advice and insight.
Reply:Howdy!  I'm no expert, but it is my opinion that Lincoln and miller are on par with each other.  Currently, Lincoln seems to be on top of the technology game, and miller is keeping more to tried and true performers.  Hobart is a subsidiary of millers parent company, and I would say is the next best thing to either of the first two.  But these machines are not on the cutting edge so rather irrelevant.  Hobart, I believe is using alluminum now for their transformer windings, or so the rep had said.  All the machines mentioned are decent machines.  They're are probably more shadetree welders out there with a Lincoln AC 225 tombstone welder then anything else on the market.  They work.  They all work well.  If you have the extra 10 or 20% in finances, I would get the most amps and ac/dc.  Perhaps you haven't run into the situation yet, but there are processes that require one or the other current types.  That thunderbolt rocks.  If it were me, I'd get the AC/DC thunderbolt.  Another nice thing, there really isn't anything to go bad with them!  Keep in mind, the higher the amp rating, the longer the duty cycle at lower amps.  Even if you don't ever use the full 300 amps, you'll be happier  with a bigger machine running at 70% capacity or 225 amps with less down time then a machine built at 225 and running 100% all the time.  Usually you'll have better arc characteristics too.  Any way you go, the three you mentioned, can't go wrong.  As far as longevity, I would say the Lincoln and miller are about same.  The hobart, perhaps considerably less.  perhaps not.  Good luck!  Brian Lee  Sparkeee24!
Reply:Skip the Hobart, not worth the money.  Lincoln with tapped amp settings will put you within 5-10amps of your target range and you make up with welding technique if you are not exactly where you need to be.  You also have less moving parts and when you change settings you can always get back to where you were before.  Miller with infinite adjustment lets you fine tune almost exactly where you need to be.  Problem is when you change setting, you cant back to exactly where you were before, close but not exact same setting.  Not just a problem with Miller, but all infinite amp adjusters unless machine has digital amp indicator which in this case it wont.  Go with the AC/DC machine however you chose.  Also, stay away from the Lincoln 225C, its not comparable with the tombstone Lincolns of old.A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter   Victor O/A
Reply:i second this.   DC is safer in damp conditions and in cramp conditions.  While AC will work, dc is smoother.  In years past, before added stabilizers ac had trouble as it will die out when the wave length of electrode neg to pos and back goes to zero.  Tig still suffers this same problem.   fixed with things like hf.  still, even with stabilizers you still have a more stable arc with dc.  ac good to have though for cases involving arc blow.   when i first started out I had the Lincoln 225/125 ac/dc   Found it a pleasure because with the taps easier to dial in.  You get it close, and then forceably have to adjust your technique to achieve good welding.  found this good lesson.   these machines are almost bullet proof.   ive dropped my off the back of the p/u once, no intentially, and never affected the machine.   banged the dent out and good as new.  i like em.  though i think tbolt has longer leads?   Ive built several trailers of good size with this machine.   it was a dandy.  anyway,  good luck.Chris
Reply:I'm simply a beginner, but I have been very impressed with my Lincoln.  Mine is just a simple flux core welder, but you do not have to have something fancy to appreciate a quality tool.  I would reccomend that you go with Lincoln.  However, like others have said, Lincoln and Miller are similar.  Just my $0.02.  Cheers!Better than a thousand days of diligent study is one day with a great teacher.
Reply:Hi again.  While I see a lot of folks are talking about miller vs lincoln, I want to say that there are going to be differnces.  Some of lincoln's products are older designs, some of miller's are the older designs.  Lincoln has some new innovations, and so does Miller.  But all in all, its all about the specific product.  Lincoln's design for the 225 is a bit older than the thunderbolt.  However, they both serve a purpose.  Your welding supply distributor is where you can find your Miller machine.  You can usually find your Lincoln machine though at Home Depot or even at Lowe's.  The Lincoln machine is generally a tad bit cheaper.  But is cheaper better?  I could be wrong, but to my recollection the Lincoln has slightly shorter leads than the Miller.  This could be important.  The Miller has to be bought from a welding distributor, maybe thats a turnoff.  Ordinarily when purchasing a machine you want to keep parts availibility a number one priority.  Well for one, the Lincoln can be bought at a welding distributor just like the Miller if you choose, so if parts were needed they can be aquired at a local welding supply.  However, generally speaking, when these machines need servicing you might as well buy a new one.  There aint much to one of these machines..  They just dont break.  Not many parts on them to break.   They are sturdy little machines.  If you search the Miller site, it gives you a list price. This means very little.  Miller and Lincoln both have list prices on these two machines in the $500 range.   If you go to Home Depot, Ive found the Lincoln AC/DC machines around $350.  Your local welding supplier gets to name his own price on machines.  So his machine might be as low or lower.  Besides, you can always go in there and try to make a deal with the guy.  They are salesmen just like at a auto dealership.  Salesmen make deals.  You can go in and tell the guy you want the Miller but you can get a Lincoln at Home Depot for a hundred or two less.  You can ask him to give you some extras to make the Miller more appealling for the price.  Ive gotten a lowered price, plus leads on an engine drive that way.  All in all saved couple hundred dollars.  But you gotta go in there and talk.  After that, when the days said and done, more importantly than anything, the two machiens will do you a great service. But you gotta choose which machine will serve you just that much better.  Happy hunting,  good luckCHRIS
Reply:I have both Miller and Lincoln, but there is models from both that I won't touch, as I'm not sure of what available in the states I can't say any more than that.Stephen
Reply:Logger: Altho I like Miller machines the best I have in my shop at home a old linc. 250 thombstone ac. dc. and a miller suitcase squirtgun. With this mach. I can stick weld, scratch start tig., or use the squirtgun, have even done a little arc gouging with it. As far as the infinite amp adjustments a newbie won't know the differance of a couple of amps either way. By the time that you can notice you will allready know how to handle the rod to compansate. If I were just starting out welding I would go around to my local welding suppliers and see about some used machines first. Usually they are at least checked out and there is not to much that goes wrong with them anyway. I would stay with a known brand of mach. tho' (linc.,miller,hobart,powcon,ect.). I would definately go ac dc mach. Right now you probably won't use anywhere near the capacity of the mach. but as you progress in your learning you will appreciate the benifits of the capabilities of a ac dc.     revpol