Let's talk files and filing

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Well, it took twice as long as I thought it would to get my gate 80% finished on the weekend. But that's the way things usually pan out with my projects. Only having the design partly resolved in my head before starting up my stick welder would have contributed to the time blow-out.I've got a whole bunch of ugly welds that need to be cleaned up and there's no way I can get a grinder near most of them - should have been grinding as I went.So I'm sitting here at work on Tuesday morning contemplating half a day of filing this coming weekend.I've never bought a file. Sure, I've got half a dozen, but I've got no idea how I came by them. Maybe they just sort of appear in all sheds (shops) just like coat hangers seem to appear in wardrobes?My files would be old. They certainly wouldn't have been looked after. (Is it possible to care badly for a file?)I'm presuming files go blunt over time. So I wouldn't mind buying a few this week. What makes a good file? Are there different grades? If I'm grinding welds, is there a particular type of file I'd need?Scott
Reply:Definately different types. *******-mill, smooth mill, double cut, single cut and rasp, to name a few. If the finish isn't too important, use a double cut. Fast metal removal but rough finish. A *******-mill would be my next choice. Not as fast metal removal, but a smoothe finish - a good compromise. Make sure to get an American brand such as Nicholson, worth the extra money!
Reply:Thanks Orphan,Sounds like I need a 'double cut' to remove the bulk of the weld, and then I can finish off with some of my old files.I'll see if the Nicholson brand is available here, but I suspect it won't be - the weight of files might make the cost of importing them prohibitive. Scott
Reply:Orphan,are you talking about a ba$$tard file/mill?  If you have an air tank you might could use an air drill with a metal rotary rasp thingie in hard to reach places.just a thought.  They (being some company) make a thin belt sander too.Hey Scott,Heard yall had a cyclone of epic proportions down under.  Everyone still in one piece?Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:or a die grinder and a carbide burrChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Yeah,  files do wear out, however, prior to that they get loaded with metal shaving and/or rust.  loading inhibit the files ability to remove metal. A cleaning by dipping and leaving in a weak solution of muratic will do wonders to restore an old file.  An occasional wire brushing the filing out of the file helps maintain good cutting action.  Keeping them sprayed with light oil will inhibit rust.
Reply:I sure was, but it censored it. Didn't know how to get it to display so left it alone
Reply:I was wondering what ******** meant. Now I know it's a ba$tard file. That's as funny as Richard Cheney's abbreviated first name getting deleted.I don't have an air tank, but I'll check out the cost of thin belt sanders and die grinders. There would be some cheap chinese ones around. Even if they just last one of two jobs they're sometimes worth it.Yes, Smithboy, yesterday a huge cyclone/hurricane hit our far north coast. It's pretty late in the season. Its name was Larry and it was a Category 5 i.e. comparable with Katrina. It hit the coast about 60 miles south of Cairns. It's not a heavily populated area, thankfully. People up there are used to cyclones and would have been reasonably well prepared. New buildings need to be cyclone proof, and lots of the old buildings would have blown away over the years, so most people would have been safe if they'd stayed inside. There were no deaths and no serious injuries. I think 30 people were treated for minor injuries. My brother lives up that way, but he's holidaying further down the coast this week. Last year he went on holidays and another cyclone hit while he was away. What a coincidence.Ten years ago he used to live with his gilrfriend in a house out in the rainforest. It had no windows. Once when a cyclone came through, they put their two couches back to back and tied them together. Then they put some bedding in there, some food, water, and a bottle of Bundy Rum, and crawled in for 10 hours or so. The rain, branches, small animals etc blew in one window and out the other. The only time they weren't too happy was when a big snake decided their shelter looked nice and cozy. At least it was a big one. The really dangerous ones (and I think Australia has something like 9 of the 10 deadliest ones) tend to be smaller.I heard something funny on the radio a few months ago. There was a cyclone about to hit the north west coast and they were interviewing a local about his preparations for it. He was shouting over the wind and had to cut the conversation short because if he didn't he'd 'lose his place in the queue'. 'The queue to leave town?' the interviewer said. Nope. It was the queue at the pub. He was stocking up on alcohol. Apparently alot of the locals get together in eachother's houses for 'cyclone parties'.
Reply:Of course, the cyclone this week has impacted upon me, too. I just heard that 90% of our bananas are grown up there and there isn't a tree standing. I eat at least one banana each day so I'm, shattered.Scott
Reply:i got a harbor fright electric die grinder i use at work every day kinda of big but man dose it take off metal fastChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Hey Scott,Don't be throwing your new files in a drawer with a bunch of wrenches and other metal stuff. Rust is instant death. Don't be doing any heavy back-strokes (lays the edges down). Just general care untill you need them, then do what ya gotta do. Keep your old files out and around as sacrifice files. Some things that can zing a smooth spot or stripe down the middle of a new file quick are; edges cut with a torch, sharpened tool points, polished edges, weld spatters. Those are the things you can use your sacrifice files for or at least to cut the surface on. There's your secret special files you keep wrapped up in oil cloth for sharpening, then there are your general purpose files for utility work then there are your 'beater' files you don't care what happens to them. Drive them in as a wedge if you need to. Rotate one in and one out as time goes on.
Reply:I just went out to get some lunch - and to stock up on bananas.There's a hardware store down the road, so I wandered in. They had a pretty good range of files - different lengths and grades.Guess what the brand was? Nicholson.So I now have a 250mm (10 inch) half round ba$tard file sitting on my desk. Beside my bananas.Tapwelder, I'll give my old files a clean as you suggested.Sandy, you said:Don't be doing any heavy back-strokes
Reply:Originally Posted by scott brunsdonI just went out to get some lunch - and to stock up on bananas.There's a hardware store down the road, so I wandered in. They had a pretty good range of files - different lengths and grades.Guess what the brand was? Nicholson.So I now have a 250mm (10 inch) half round ba$tard file sitting on my desk. Beside my bananas.Tapwelder, I'll give my old files a clean as you suggested.Sandy, you said:Excusing my ignorance, that would mean I only exert pressure when pushing the file as opposed to pulling it back?Scott
Reply:This is true, the file only cuts when pushed, not pulled. You shouldnt have to use too much pressure to get the file to cut either. If you do, you may not have the right file (in this case probably no true) or you are in too much of a rush. Take your time, a file is just as dangerous as any other tool. If you can afford to buy handles for your files, do so, if not, be very, very careful. If the file gets stuck, the end can go into your wrist.
Reply:Yes, all my files at home have no handles. And never having bought one I just assumed for a long time that was the way they came. My brand new file has a nice red handle.
Reply:, that would mean I only exert pressure when pushing the file as opposed to pulling it back?
Reply:I use a file alot. Believe me if a file has to die to get the job done then it's a goner for sure, but I always try to keep them graded and try to judge which one will get the job done with the minimum sacrifice. I even keep one on the welding table to knock spatter off. I grind the end sharp for scraping. But if you ever need to put and edge on an axe or tool, there's nothing finer than a good file. Buy and extra now and wrap it up in an oil rag. Good fine file and a sharp edge tempered with blood, love it!!!
Reply:I prefer smooth cut files for almost every situation.  They cut with less downwards force, almost none, when compaired to a ******* file.  You get more material removal with less effort at times.  Nicholson is generally accepted as the best brand of file.  I personally prefer Kearney and Foot, but they haven't been made in about 50 years.  Their double cut files are extremely sharp and even a smooth cut rivals ******* cut files for speed yet still leaves an excellent finish.
Reply:I prefer an electric rotary tool, (die grinder) for most of my Wrought Iron weld clean up.  Look around for a carbide cutter in the "flame" shape, it's large at the body, but pointed to get into the fight areas. The electric type tool is larger than the air powered, but the max speed is a bit slower, an I find it more controllable, less chatter. Do you use a 4" rule for your picket spacing down there?I save a bunch of smaller grinding wheels for the times that I am able to use the grinder between the pickets.Just my  opinion, not from a book, just from the road.Howes Welding Inc.www.howesweldinginc.com
Reply:Looks like I'd better get a smooth cut file, too. I'd like to get a die grinder or a carbide cutter (whatever that is), but it's hard to justify the expense.The gate I'm making doesn't have pickets. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I will post some pics when it's finished in a week or so. I quite like how it's turning out, thankfully.We do have pretty strict regulations for balcony railings and pool fences. I'm sure you guys do too.I tested my new file last night and it worked a treat. I also looked closely for the first time ever at some of my old ones - they're a bit sad and sorry looking. All of them have some rust. Most have damaged edges...(Sandy, you'd better stop reading now.)...And one I used once to stir some paint. I gave it a wash afterwards, but I suspect the paint that's still there is possibly impeding its action.I look after my other tools (hand and power), but somehow I've always seen files as sort of indestructible.
Reply:In the past, I have used scavenged golf balls as handles.  Just put the file in a vice and hammered the ball onto the sharp end (is it called the tang?)  With my skill at golf, that's their best use anyway.  I once shot about a 72...on the first hole.  I am not sure if golf is played in AU, in my opinion it shouldn't be played at all (and, that is definately not a biased comment stemming from my bad experiences with golf in any way  ).Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:That's a great idea for a file handle, Smithboy.I don't play golf, but it's a very popular sport here because we have so much space. We have nearly 100 public courses just in Sydney and a whole bunch of private (members only) ones.I've only ever played half a dozen times. It takes too long. I do like golf course, though, because they are so well cared for and pleasant to wander around.
Reply:I have only been a couple of times...on both occasions I was nearly the cause of bizarre fatalities.  I once tried to drive off the tee and my ball, rather than it going down range, it took another path directly into the back of a lady standing off to the side of our party...I though I'd killed her.  She went down like a sack of wet cement.  When she got up, she thought I'd done it on purpose..."nobody is that ******* stupid," she said (I put the stars in cause I know the board will, if I dont).The second time, I hit an approach shot that took out the plexiglass in a personal golf cart being driven (moving target) by a very prominant member of that club...I was actually quite proud of that one...however....Two times was all it took to convince me that I was not cut out for it.  I was borrowing clubs.  SOOOOOOO.....now all my golf balls are dedicated to be used as file handles and for squirrel repelant (ha, got back to the topic of files...)Last edited by smithboy; 03-21-2006 at 08:39 PM.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:My mother is a keen golfer. She'll be so pleased when I ask her if she has any spare golf balls. She'll be imagining all those times in the future when we'll play golf together.
Reply:Damn dangerous this golf stuff a friend killed a goose when it wandered ten feet in front of him.  My personal bet ... club went about 50 yards on the driving range ... gave the rest of the balls to the guy next to me, he was trying so hard not to wet himself laughing!  NEVER been on a real golf course to play.My angle grinder is my best friend!A friend of mine hit a guy in the head once. He was teeing off on a course that has rows of trees down each side. A guy who must have been walking across the course stuck his head out from between the trees about a hundred yards away and got hit. So unlucky. It's as if the guy's whole life had some lead him inevitably to that place and that moment in time. Thankfully he didn't die.it's a bit like that story Smithboy told about the guy being run down by a bear in Alaska.Can't work out how to get this back to files and filing. Sorry. At least it was a conversation I started.
Reply:...And one I used once to stir some paint. I gave it a wash afterwards, but I suspect the paint that's still there is possibly impeding its action.
Reply:Lots of good advice above.  Let me toss in a few comments from my metal shop classes 55 years ago, supplemented by many decades of use of the "Armstrong Milling Machine."It's interesting to read all the comments about oiling files to preserve them.  In my experience, oil is very bad for a file.  It leads to clogging of the teeth, which is one of the main causes of poor filing action and wear of the teeth.  Additionally, lubrication of the file/work interface is the last thing you want.  Instead of applying oil, keep your files in a dry place to avoid rust.  If you have problems with rusting, you might use one of those VPI (Vapor Phase Inhibitor) rust inhibiting capsules in a reasonably airtight drawer with your files and other items you want to protect from rust.  You can also buy VPI treated paper or salvage it from tools shipped with it in the shipping box.  That odd looking, brownish paper that some steel tools are wrapped with by the manufacturer is probably VPI paper.  But the best protection is just keeping the files in a dry place.As soon as you sense or see metal particles starting to clog the teeth, use a "File Card," stroked parallel with the teeth to remove the clogging metal.    (Funny thing is I just bought a file card yesterday for the first time in several decades for a young friend asking how to clean up his files.  Nicholson brand at Home Depot.)  A file card is a special wire brush with very short (about 3/16"), stiff wires.  The stiffness and hook shape of the wire bristles aids in scraping out the clogging metal from the file teeth.  Once clogging starts, it accelerates the clogging process and results in a poor finish.  As soon as you sense clogging, stop and card your file and apply chalk.  If you do it at the first sign of clogging, it only takes a couple of strokes, minimizing wear on the file.  Pick out stubborn metal particles with a sharp pick.Use white chalk (yes, from the blackboard) on the file after carding it to absorb any oil present and inhibit clogging.  Apply the chalk regularly by "filing" the side of the stick of chalk.You can feel the productive drag of a sharp file that is cutting properly.  As soon as you feel the file gliding across the work without the normal "drag" feel it's time to card the file and apply chalk (or toss the file into the "junker" drawer).Never use a good file on metal that is too hard.  If you are not sure of the metal hardness, use just a short stroke with the corner of the file to see if the file will cut the metal.  It is a waste of time and a waste of a good file to try to file metal that is too hard for the file.If you can see a shine on the file, the file is shot.  And attempting to file metal that is too hard will shine up your file in a single stroke.  I have heard that an acid dip can "sharpen" file teeth, but have not tried it.  Despite its rugged look, a file is a fairly delicate tool.  The worst thing you can do to your files is toss them into a drawer with other files or hardened cutting tools.  If you have to store all your files in a drawer due to space limitations, wrap each file, individually.  Anything that will prevent contact with other file's teeth and will not contaminate the file is fine.  Paper, cardboard, plastic, rubber, etc.  I've used them all, including sections of old bicycle inner tubes for larger files.  Notice that files in bulk packages at the ironmongers are individually wrapped by the manufacturer before being boxed with other files.Dragging the file on the back stroke is very bad for the teeth when filing steel.  Lift the file off the work on the back stroke.  Do not use a "rubbing" back and forth stroke.  When filing aluminum, however, light contact on the back stroke can aid in clearing the teeth.Some aluminum alloys are especially gummy and require frequent carding and chalking.  This is especially true of the "do it yourself" aluminum alloys from the hardware store.Have fun.awright
Reply:This usually works for me. I was walking through the forest last week.  After tripping over a beer can I stood up and there was D*ck Cheney ready to shoot me with his 28 gauge.  So I had to think real fast.  I got out my trusty Mill B@st@rd and started waving it around fast...so fast that all the pellets bounced off.  Then D*ck got scared and ran, tripping over a Bush, he continued running towards a field of Rice and said Condeleeza!  Well in all of the comotion I managed to escape and here I am safe atlast.  Oh yes but thats how you avoid being censored.  Just remember,  you have the freedom to say what you want.  But you still have an obligation to remain civil!          IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Many thanks for that post Awright. I now know more than I ever thought there was to know about files. That one I just bought will be well looked after.Scott
Reply:the best way to clean straight tooth file is with a piece of brass that...well looks like a filemaybe not as long but..you just let the teeth "file" there way into the brass so you get the file pattern in the brasscleans like a charmdont take effort and will not dull a filebrass is soft remember?i still use the same files 26 yrs nowand the same piece of brass ...zap!